Were we all fooled?

[Bossman641]

man, paco

do your friends ever get tired of you in person?


you seem like someone who might just get punched in the face sometime because they dont know when to quit.

the most negative poster I have seen. I would have punched him by now if I knew him in person.

Haha. Maybe that should be the selling point for next year's Posters game. Come punch Paco.

[Scott Campbell]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

If you give Thompson credit for keeping Kampman and Jenkins, then you have to give Sherman credit for resigning guys like KGB, Green, Clifton, etc. etc. That's kind of lame.

It's all part of roster building, and key to the job description. I think you have to evaluate all the moves.

[mraynrand]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.

Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

So? Sherman brought in Gravy and Thompson brought in Pickett. That's about even. What else has Thompson done on the D line?

[Bossman641]

They don't count.

I'll give him credit for keeping good players, vs. losing them via free agency.

I give him credit for it. I'm just trying to think like Paco and beat him to the punch.

[Scott Campbell]

I'm just trying to think like Paco........

That can't be good for you.

[mraynrand]

Jolly and Pickett. And doesn't he get credit for keeping Kampman after he signed that offer sheet with the Vikes? He also paid Jenkins, who was looking like he was worth all that money prior to hurting himself.

If you give Thompson credit for keeping Kampman and Jenkins, then you have to give Sherman credit for resigning guys like KGB, Green, Clifton, etc. etc. That's kind of lame.

It's all part of roster building, and key to the job description. I think you have to evaluate all the moves.

I did. That's why I wrote "TT should get less credit for keeping them." (why didn't you include that?) Just as Sherman gets less credit for keeping the guys he resigned. In the area of evaluating talent, it's (in my estimation) harder to find talent than to keep talent that's working in your system.

[Scott Campbell]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.

Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

So? Sherman brought in Gravy and Thompson brought in Pickett. That's about even. What else has Thompson done on the D line?

Apparently not enough.

And Pickett has been here longer than Gravy, and he doesn't cause trouble. I'd rate Pickett significantly better acquisition than Gravy. And it should be better, as we spent a lot more money on Ryan.

[Scott Campbell]

I did. That's why I wrote "TT should get less credit for keeping them." (why didn't you include that?) Just as Sherman gets less credit for keeping the guys he resigned. In the area of evaluating talent, it's (in my estimation) harder to find talent than to keep talent that's working in your system.

Agreed.

[Patler]

Wolf struck gold in the 2000 draft with Clifton and Tauscher. Had he not, the Packers would have been up shit river without a swizzle stick. Those two had virtually zero developmental time, and were instrumental to (eventually) a pretty good year, and a good run of five years on the O-line. Thompson has invested a lot in the line and has crap to show for it so far. That's an honest assessment. It isn't TT hate either, because he's had some really good successes elsewhere. His line drafting so far sucks twigs and berries.

I agree completely about Clifton and Tauscher, but he also struck gold with Rivera and Wahle, but only after giving them 4 years each to develop. Both were pretty bad early in their careers The bucket full of guards TT has brought in could be the same way next year and thereafter. Spitz, Colledge and Barbre have shown improvement. Moll and Coston not so much. Sitton is an unknown. I don't think that sucks. After all, Wolf had his share of flops too with guys like Michels, Ferrario, Heimburger, Curry and Hutchins. Even Verba was not a real solid 1st round success for the Packers.

[mraynrand]

Clearly, Sherman outperformed TT so far on the D-line, since Gravy Jackson was easily as good as Pickett over a comparable period of time.

Maybe on drafting, but not FA's and retaining players. Shermy whiffed big time on C. Hunt and Joe Johnson.

So? Sherman brought in Gravy and Thompson brought in Pickett. That's about even. What else has Thompson done on the D line?

Apparently not enough.

And Pickett has been here longer than Gravy, and he doesn't cause trouble. I'd rate Pickett significantly better acquisition than Gravy. And it should be better, as we spent a lot more money on Ryan.

Actually, I don't think Pickett's been all that much better, and the time frame is pretty similar. If you recall, in 2004, the Packers sucked stopping the run before Gravy came back from an injury. Pickett hopefully will get back into form this season and live up to your billing.

[mraynrand]

Wolf struck gold in the 2000 draft with Clifton and Tauscher. Had he not, the Packers would have been up shit river without a swizzle stick. Those two had virtually zero developmental time, and were instrumental to (eventually) a pretty good year, and a good run of five years on the O-line. Thompson has invested a lot in the line and has crap to show for it so far. That's an honest assessment. It isn't TT hate either, because he's had some really good successes elsewhere. His line drafting so far sucks twigs and berries.

I agree completely about Clifton and Tauscher, but he also struck gold with Rivera and Wahle, but only after giving them 4 years each to develop. Both were pretty bad early in their careers The bucket full of guards TT has brought in could be the same way next year and thereafter. Spitz, Colledge and Barbre have shown improvement. Moll and Coston not so much. Sitton is an unknown. I don't think that sucks. After all, Wolf had his share of flops too with guys like Michels, Ferrario, Heimburger, Curry and Hutchins. Even Verba was not a real solid 1st round success for the Packers.

I'm with you on the developmental time frame for some linemen. as has been suggested in other threads, you could see Barbre and Sitton in there with Colledge at the LT, and that line - with Spitz at center might be solid for a number of years. Hopefully sooner than later, though, right?

[Bretsky]

I agree it often takes 4 years for the OL man to develop

So you either suffer as they are or use another means to bring one in while the others find their game

Apparently we choose to suffer

[Patler]

I'm with you on the developmental time frame for some linemen. as has been suggested in other threads, you could see Barbre and Sitton in there with Colledge at the LT, and that line - with Spitz at center might be solid for a number of years. Hopefully sooner than later, though, right?

I think we will see it this season. Barbre will play, either because Colledge is at LT or because he plays well enough to get more time. I also expect to see Spitz more at Center, with Wells in the infirmary. Sitton, who knows at this point??????

Besides the injuries, the most disappointing thing to me in the 1st 5 games has been the relatively poor play of both Clifton and Tauscher at times. The young guys could be asked to fill in sooner than we think.

[Pacopete4]

negative or not, TTs failures are hurting this team whether u like it or not... along with injuries... u cant just point out positives about him...

[mraynrand]

FYI - Gravy had 2 solo tackles and a sack Sunday, and Pickett had 2 solo and 2 assists, no sacks. Gravy also had 7 burgers, 2 milkshakes, a hambone, and curly fries - and that was just breakfast.