Scary

[Partial]

Some of those guys are fine backups. You can't have ten all-pros. They need to gameplan and run some stunts, etc to keep the offensive line off balance and make their jobs a little easier.

[Kyle.McCarroll]

So what would you all be saying if Hunter has a breakthrough as a speed rusher like KGB did in his third year? That and a healthy cullen jenkins would do wonders for this D. But alas, I hope its for a different coach than Sanders.

I'm sorry but I just don't get why people say that Cullen Jenkins would have made such a huge impact. Granted, he would have provided a better pass rush from RE, but I don't think he would have helped us in the biggest problem we have IMO, which is stopping the run.

Here are the Rush YPG from this year when Cullen was healthy...

Week 1: 187 yds rushing
Week 2: 49 yds rushning (but c'mon, it's the Lions)
Week 3: 217 yds rushing
Week 4: 178 yds rushing

I'm sorry but I just don't buy it.

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, if the Vanilla Bob firing goes down, will you perk up again? You seem to have become so deeply unhappy with the Packers. I know you say you don't care and you know it's about the long term future for Ted, but you really do seem pretty bummed about the whole thing.

Will getting rid of Vanilla Bob pump the life back into you? And if they throw Stock in there, will you be as excited as if two rather attrractive ladies showed up on your doorstep and offered to show affection for one another for your viewing pleasure?

Yes, I do think that would rejuvinate my hope in our long term future. And you are right.........I do deeply care but I'm at the point where it's almost learned helplessness. I expect them to melt down at some point, especially against a competent team. My emotions are near frozen on game day and thus the pain of a Carolina or Titan loss does not disappoint as much as it did lat year.

I'd have even more hope if we go outside (not Winston Moss) and hire somebody else. Just the fact that Moss has that title makes me wonder if he's a co conspirator.

Stock I'm fine with going, but I also feel they need better players on specials and cutting Tracy White was a mistake that they are paying for.

As far as the two ladies on the doorstep..........I say get rid of the Vanilla Man, keep Stock, and send over the two ladies

[arcilite]

i only read the first post.

but take what TT says with a grain of salt (and that is a good thing)

we dont want him to say 'the DL sucks' that will undermine the team. I'd rather him be a 'snake in the grass' as partial says and say everything is fine then go sign haynesworth or draft 3 DL.

[Lurker64]

It's a bad idea to call out specific parts of the team that screw up when things don't go the right way. Since if you call out the DL everytime they get run on, and the CBs every time they get scorched, and the WRs everytime they drop the ball, etc. eventually guys are going to spend half their time looking over their shoulders and pointing their fingers at each other instead of, well, fixing the problem.

Better to just say " Defense has been disappointing" and make the personnel decisions that indicate what you really think.

[RashanGary]

Better to just say " Defense has been disappointing" and make the personnel decisions that indicate what you really think.

Very true. This is the first time a problem has come up that I really think should have been prevented by Ted. Most of them were the result of a really bad GM leading to his tenure. I wanted to hear that he recognizes the problem, but I understand why that would be foolish to say. If he says nothing and fixes it I'll be happy. If he says nthing and does nothing there is a huge red flag.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Packers have had problems on defense that have gotten worse as the season has gone along. And we sure haven't had any injuries or anything like that as extenuating circumstances, have we?

Four losses by four points or less--turn those around, and the whiners would probably still be whining about style points or something, but there wouldn't be near the urgency.

Jenkins, Barnett, Harris, Bigby, Rouse, Hawk, Harrell, have I missed anybody--missing significant playing time? Woodson, Collins, Jolly playing hurt--not to mention most of those who missed time playing hurt when they did play. No, that didn't have anything to do with it, did it?

Sheesh, how ignorant can you guys be? Get rid of Sanders and bring in some imbecile who blitzes over half the time; Scrap the man coverage, and go to mostly zone--like the perennial loser teams. Yeah right.

And all this after-the-fact idiocy about trading up in the draft--get real! For his first year, Mario Williams looked like a bust. Players like him are notorious for being one injury away from mediocrity. And Adrian Peterson seemed like an injury waiting to happen coming out of college. A great rookie year, a slightly less great second year, is there a trend there? I sure wouldn't bet the farm that he will have a long successful career. and even if he does, it would have been a stupid gamble to anticipate that and move up in the draft.

[b bulldog]

Ras, thanks for showing what we would have given up. I'd have done that deal in a second. Stud, difference maker, DE for a great WR, an average LB, a below average OL, and a oft injured, journeymen LB.

[Guiness]

And for the record, I agree that Mario is 3x as valuable as Hawk. Hawk was a so/so pick. A decent player, that's it. Mario and Bush turned out to be impact players. Not many others from the top part of that draft. And you were just as enamoured with VY so lets have some perspective on the accuracy of our crystal balls. I was dead sure the Williams wall would be suspended and now I odn't know. Right when you think you know something you probably don't.

It's all too easy to look back and say 'coulda, woulda, shoulda'.

Houston wasn't looking too smart the first year or so with Williams. Did everyone forget the toe surgery, slow comeback, etc? At the end of the rookie season, Hawk was looking like a much better player than Williams.

And Peterson - for where he went, anyone in the NFL could've had him if they wanted him bad enough. Maybe Minny was 100% sold, and wasn't getting out of that spot for love nor money, but I bet a pair of firsts would've gotten that pick from them when they were on the clock. If anyone had known, AP would've went, oh, 6 picks earlier?

[Gunakor]

last 27 games, 25 sacks and 6 forced fumbles. Probably the second best DE in the game behind Allen already, and he is only 23!!!!!!!!!! Obvioujsly I hav e a mancrush on him b ut the dude is a freak with skills.

What would it cost to move up from #5 to #1? Nobody is disputing Mario is a phenomenal player, but what would it have cost us to get him? He's just one player. I would not have wanted to lose out on Hawk, Jennings, AND Colledge just to get one stud DE. The value of those 3 players combined to this team is greater than the value would be of Mario by himself. Mario's salary could be comparable to those 3 players combined as well. Again, I agree Mario is a stud but it would have cost Green Bay much more to get him than it cost Houston. I'm not sure it would be worth it.

Edit: Just read Ras break it down. No way I'd do this deal, that's too much. Especially on top of the rediculous salary we'd be paying Mario as the #1 overall pick. We'd have a stud DE but would be crippled at a number of other positions and have less money to deal with it. Not worth it.

[Fritz]

Bretsky, if the Vanilla Bob firing goes down, will you perk up again? You seem to have become so deeply unhappy with the Packers. I know you say you don't care and you know it's about the long term future for Ted, but you really do seem pretty bummed about the whole thing.

Will getting rid of Vanilla Bob pump the life back into you? And if they throw Stock in there, will you be as excited as if two rather attrractive ladies showed up on your doorstep and offered to show affection for one another for your viewing pleasure?

Yes, I do think that would rejuvinate my hope in our long term future. And you are right.........I do deeply care but I'm at the point where it's almost learned helplessness. I expect them to melt down at some point, especially against a competent team. My emotions are near frozen on game day and thus the pain of a Carolina or Titan loss does not disappoint as much as it did lat year.

I'd have even more hope if we go outside (not Winston Moss) and hire somebody else. Just the fact that Moss has that title makes me wonder if he's a co conspirator.

Stock I'm fine with going, but I also feel they need better players on specials and cutting Tracy White was a mistake that they are paying for.

As far as the two ladies on the doorstep..........I say get rid of the Vanilla Man, keep Stock, and send over the two ladies

Whew. that's my man. Okay.