4th quarter woes

[Gunakor]

And I have come to the conclusion that it's possible, given the right set of circumstances, that Brett Favre - not the player himself, but the aura, the knowledge that this legend is on your team - might have something to do with the confidence level of any team he's on. It doesn't mean the guy can carry anyone. He can't. The 4-12 season proved that.

Yet if there is the right mix of players and coaches on a team, say a team that is unproven, I think it's at least possible that Favre's reputation gives players, young ones especially, a certain swagger. No one feels he has to do it all or be the star, because he's got THE Brett Favre on his side.

Fritzy, you make a good point, but I discount the effect of Favre leaving this Packer team because this team was a proven winner. It went 13-3 last year. I agree that Favre could lift a team, and I think he did so with the Jets, but I don't think the Packers coming in to the 2008 season needed, or felt like they needed, that kind of lift. These guys knew they could play, and, being youngsters, they probably thought they didn't need the old gray haired dude anymore.

I'm coming more to the belief that the combo of Barnett going down and Hawk having that groin injury has significantly affected defensive cohesion and speed. That our DL has been so poor only makes it worse, as this exposes our underperforming LBs to attack by the OL. None of this has anything to do with Favre.

The defensive production has plummeted since the Barnett injury. Barnett wasn't having his greatest year in terms of tackles or pass defenses or other stats you'll find on a stat sheet, but I think he is much better than Hawk in terms of getting his team lined up correctly and making the right pre-snap calls. He's the quarterback of our defene. He's the one who, through experience alone, makes this defense better just by being on the field and making those pre-snap defensive calls and adjustments. When his play matches his leadership ability, as it did last season, you'll see a much different defense than the one we've seen this season. IMO that is the #1 biggest thing that is wrong with this defense right now.

[Patler]

The defensive production has plummeted since the Barnett injury. Barnett wasn't having his greatest year in terms of tackles or pass defenses or other stats you'll find on a stat sheet, but I think he is much better than Hawk in terms of getting his team lined up correctly and making the right pre-snap calls. He's the quarterback of our defene. He's the one who, through experience alone, makes this defense better just by being on the field and making those pre-snap defensive calls and adjustments. When his play matches his leadership ability, as it did last season, you'll see a much different defense than the one we've seen this season. IMO that is the #1 biggest thing that is wrong with this defense right now.

The two do seem to be related, don't they?

[cpk1994]

I don't buy for a second that the defense played better last year because Brett Favre is our QB. But I digress... if you can find one single quote or implication from ANY member of our defense that their struggles this year might have something to do with our new QB, please post a link here and I'll reconsider my stance on this issue.

I'm not talking about the defense.

I'm talking about an offense that has had the ball in the last 2 minutes numerous times and failed to mount even a smidgeon of a drive that might produce points...and has come up short (like this week) and been unable to punch it in the endzone in the 4th quarter when it matters, settling for FGs.

Yeah, the defense has faltered late...but so has the offense.

I can agree with you to an extent, but where I can't agree comes when Rodgers leads this offense to points with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter. They happen to be points that put our team ahead. With 5 minutes to go. Now if the defense allows a quick score to put our opponent ahead with 2 minutes to go, then we are putting Rodgers and the offense back in the same position they were in before the opponents winning drive began. That's where my problem lies.

If you score points with 5 minutes left in the game to put your team ahead, THOSE should be the winning points. Not the ones that come on the following opponents drive. No offense should be put in the position of having to engineer a winning drive in the final 2 minutes every week, especially when they've engineered a winning drive with 5 minutes left. In that case, as has been the case many times this season, the defense HAS to hold on the opponents final drive. That is the real issue here IMO.

Absoultely agree here. LIke was mentioned the Packers were leading with 5:40 to go against Jax. They were tied with 2 minutes remaining against Houston with them backed up to their own 2 yard line/ The lead Carolina with about 2 minutes to go. How many times like these have to happen before some finally admit the defense has to hold these leads instead of looking for another reason to bash Rodgers?

[Pugger]

Rodgers didn't help himself by throwing picks late in these past few games but I lay a lot of the blame for our offensive woes on the O line. Our tackles' play has deteriorated since last year and the revolving door with the other positions hasn't helped. If these guys could've played better so we'd have a running game and didn't commit boneheaded penatlies I say this season would've been so much different. Yes, the D has been atrocious but our O line hasn't been all that wonderful either. If you can't convert a measly yard for a first down your line isn't getting any push up front so it wouldn't have mattered WHO was under center.

[Gunakor]

Rodgers didn't help himself by throwing picks late in these past few games but I lay a lot of the blame for our offensive woes on the O line. Our tackles' play has deteriorated since last year and the revolving door with the other positions hasn't helped. If these guys could've played better so we'd have a running game and didn't commit boneheaded penatlies I say this season would've been so much different. Yes, the D has been atrocious but our O line hasn't been all that wonderful either. If you can't convert a measly yard for a first down your line isn't getting any push up front so it wouldn't have mattered WHO was under center.

The inability to gain 1 yard on 3rd or 4th and 1 falls on the coaches playcall. This offense is talented enough to pick up one yard every time they need to, but have been put in tough situations by shoddy playcalling. Aaron Rodgers cannot be expected to change the coaches playcall. They run the plays they are given, and suffer the consequences accordingly. When the opposing defense knows you are going to run right up the middle, and we do it anyway, and get stopped... Who's fault is that?

Maybe next time he'll call the quick slant to Driver or play action to a wide open Donald Lee running a delayed pattern, just coming off his block.

[Bretsky]

I don't buy for a second that the defense played better last year because Brett Favre is our QB. But I digress... if you can find one single quote or implication from ANY member of our defense that their struggles this year might have something to do with our new QB, please post a link here and I'll reconsider my stance on this issue.

I'm not talking about the defense.

I'm talking about an offense that has had the ball in the last 2 minutes numerous times and failed to mount even a smidgeon of a drive that might produce points...and has come up short (like this week) and been unable to punch it in the endzone in the 4th quarter when it matters, settling for FGs.

Yeah, the defense has faltered late...but so has the offense.

I can agree with you to an extent, but where I can't agree comes when Rodgers leads this offense to points with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter. They happen to be points that put our team ahead. With 5 minutes to go. Now if the defense allows a quick score to put our opponent ahead with 2 minutes to go, then we are putting Rodgers and the offense back in the same position they were in before the opponents winning drive began. That's where my problem lies.

If you score points with 5 minutes left in the game to put your team ahead, THOSE should be the winning points. Not the ones that come on the following opponents drive. No offense should be put in the position of having to engineer a winning drive in the final 2 minutes every week, especially when they've engineered a winning drive with 5 minutes left. In that case, as has been the case many times this season, the defense HAS to hold on the opponents final drive. That is the real issue here IMO.

Absoultely agree here. LIke was mentioned the Packers were leading with 5:40 to go against Jax. They were tied with 2 minutes remaining against Houston with them backed up to their own 2 yard line/ The lead Carolina with about 2 minutes to go. How many times like these have to happen before some finally admit the defense has to hold these leads instead of looking for another reason to bash Rodgers?

The D sucks wind; I agree they take most of the blame.

I agree they should stop them in the 4th quarter

I'd also agree that when they don't it'd be pretty dam cool if AROD would take GB down for the winning score once in a while as well