Why did McCarthy fire most of the staff?

[Partial]

There isn't anything to admit. He didn't make the pro bowl, therefore he is not a pro bowl quarterback. He didn't deserve to make the pro bowl, or he would be there.

This has been beaten into the dirt. There isn't any sense in going over it again. Clearly my opinion differs from the vast majority here, so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[Gunakor]

TT is an excellent drafter.

TT has been an OK drafter. He has done well in later rounds and had less success early on. Too soon to tell imo.

He ran drafts in Seattle too. Shawn Alexander, Marcus Trufant, Darrell Jackson, and Ken Hamlin were all guys Thompson had drafted.

I mentioned this in another thread. Shawn Alexander was NFL MVP the year Seattle went to the Super Bowl, and Aaron Rodgers put up MVP type numbers this year (If you buy into Peyton Manning winning MVP this year anyway). Those were both first round selections. I'd say he's had plenty of success early on. One bad Harrell pick does not amount to an overall poor record early in drafts.

Shawn Alexander was great. Traufant was great. Jackson and Hamlin are just guys. They have floated around to several different teams now. I wanted Hamlin in FA but I'm glad we did not opt to go that route.

Jackson was very good for awhile. He spent I believe it was 9 years in Seattle before going to San Fransisco. He was their go to guy for a long time, not some journeyman that bounces around the league year to year.

Hamlin is very good too. He's no journeyman either, he's only with his second team. And last year he earned a Pro Bowl selection with the Cowboys. In July of last year, he signed a 6 year contract extension with the Cowboys, so he's not going anywhere soon. He's not the greatest safety in the league, but he's still very, very good.

[Gunakor]

There isn't anything to admit. He didn't make the pro bowl, therefore he is not a pro bowl quarterback. He didn't deserve to make the pro bowl, or he would be there.

This has been beaten into the dirt. There isn't any sense in going over it again. Clearly my opinion differs from the vast majority here, so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Cmon P. There's guys who deserve to go every year that don't make it - how long was it before Fred Taylor made it (as an alternate)?

There's also guys who DO make it that don't deserve to go every year.

The argument "he wasn't selected so he doesn't deserve to be there" doesn't hold any water whatsoever.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jackson and Hamlin are just guys.

I'd say any GM would be THRILLED to draft a guy in the 3rd round who gives them this kind of production.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5109/career;_ylt=AkIPfZEnRppWXmTZEHUGm_r.uLYF

I'd say any GM would be THRILLED to draft a guy in the 2nd round who turned out to be a long-time starter and a Pro Bowler (2007).

Ridiculous statement. When you draft a long-time, solid starter after the 1st round, that's a good pick.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There isn't anything to admit. He didn't make the pro bowl, therefore he is not a pro bowl quarterback. He didn't deserve to make the pro bowl, or he would be there.

He said a Pro Bowler (or close). Thus, you can't change the argument to try to fit your viewpoint.

[Partial]

Jackson and Hamlin are just guys.

I'd say any GM would be THRILLED to draft a guy in the 3rd round who gives them this kind of production.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5109/career;_ylt=AkIPfZEnRppWXmTZEHUGm_r.uLYF

I'd say any GM would be THRILLED to draft a guy in the 2nd round who turned out to be a long-time starter and a Pro Bowler (2007).

Ridiculous statement. When you draft a long-time, solid starter after the 1st round, that's a good pick.

Jackson was good for a few years. He has better stats than I thought. That is a pretty good pick in round 3.

Hamlin is still just a guy imo. I don't like him as a player very much because he is a liability in coverage. I think his pro bowl berth last year was the result of a ton of talent around him. How many 'boys made the bowl last year? Furthermore, he was the 42nd pick. He's expected to contribute. He's been an OK pick. Remember, Seattle let him walk and replaced him with the Jags safety. They clearly didn't think too highly of him. They got two years of pretty good service out of him, and let him walk after his rookie year contract was up. That's not a very good pick imo.

[Fritz]

I'd rather have Ted drafting for the Packers than any other GM out there, excepting maybe the Pioli/Belichik combo.

I think the draft is the guy's strong suit. And if he can land another FA or two worth their salt, and manage to re-up Collins and Jennings, this team is in good shape, I think, for awhile.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Both were very good picks.

Here were the 10 players drafted after Hamlin:

43 Pisa Tinoisamoa OLB Hawaii St. Louis Rams
44 Taylor Jacobs WR Florida Washington Redskins
45 Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M New England Patriots
46 Drayton Florence CB Tuskegee San Diego Chargers
47 Kawika Mitchell MLB South Florida Kansas City Chiefs
48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska Buffalo Bills
49 Eddie Moore LB Tennessee Miami Dolphins
50 Bruce Nelson C Iowa Carolina Panthers
51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State Denver Broncos
52 Chaun Thompson LB West Texas A&M Cleveland Browns

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here were the 10 guys drafted after Darrell Jackson:

81 Reuben Droughns RB Oregon Detroit Lions
82 Leander Jordan G Indiana (PA) Carolina Panthers
83 Damion McIntosh T Kansas State San Diego Chargers
84 Ben Kelly CB Colorado Miami Dolphins
85 Greg Wesley SS Arkansas-Pine Bluff Kansas City Chiefs
86 Jeff Ulbrich LB Hawaii San Francisco 49ers
87 Dustin Lyman TE Wake Forest Chicago Bears
88 Doug Chapman RB Marshall Minnesota Vikings
89 Corey Moore OLB Virginia Tech Buffalo Bills
90 Nate Webster LB Miami (Fla.) Tampa Bay Buccaneers

[Partial]

I'd rather have Ted drafting for the Packers than any other GM out there, excepting maybe the Pioli/Belichik combo.

I think the draft is the guy's strong suit. And if he can land another FA or two worth their salt, and manage to re-up Collins and Jennings, this team is in good shape, I think, for awhile.

It's his strong suit no doubt. He's very skilled at it as a whole. I'm just sort of burned on our two top picks that should be playmakers are turning into colossal busts.

He needs to hit on a true 100% superstar. The guy that comes to mind is a Tommie Harris or an Urlacher. Both are genuine superstars. I don't think that we have a guy that is the best at his position in the league(in his prime).

We did with Favre. That works out remarkably well and your team will be very good for a LONG time when you achieve this at QB. I'll settle for any position!

Chuck might be the best in the league, and he has been lights out. I just wish he was 22 instead of 32

[TennesseePackerBacker]

We'll agree to disagree, and you're right, we don't have one bonafide superstar anymore. In my personal opinion we'll go with a playmaker with one of our top 3 picks. The offense is good and I don't see too many problems with it other than upgrading the offensive line, but we NEED NEED NEED an explosive playmaker. I thought Jennings was the guy but whether it was injuries or defensive scheming against him he just didn't produce in the spotlight.

[Gunakor]

I'd rather have Ted drafting for the Packers than any other GM out there, excepting maybe the Pioli/Belichik combo.

I think the draft is the guy's strong suit. And if he can land another FA or two worth their salt, and manage to re-up Collins and Jennings, this team is in good shape, I think, for awhile.

It's his strong suit no doubt. He's very skilled at it as a whole. I'm just sort of burned on our two top picks that should be playmakers are turning into colossal busts.

He needs to hit on a true 100% superstar. The guy that comes to mind is a Tommie Harris or an Urlacher. Both are genuine superstars. I don't think that we have a guy that is the best at his position in the league(in his prime).

We did with Favre. That works out remarkably well and your team will be very good for a LONG time when you achieve this at QB. I'll settle for any position!

Chuck might be the best in the league, and he has been lights out. I just wish he was 22 instead of 32

Oh I absolutely agree with some of what you say here Partial. Yet it has been proven that teams have won SB's without a player on their roster who is unquestionably the best at his position in the entire league. The Giants from last year, for example. They had a roster full of very good players, and a few elite ones, but nobody on that roster was the best at their respective position. The whole was greater than the sum of it's parts. That works too.

We as fans don't have to become so greedy as to demand of our GM a player who is the very best at his position. All we should expect is a team that stays competitive with the very best teams in the league. Even with a 6-10 record this year, I don't think we are too far away - we beat a couple of playoff teams this year, and took a couple others (2 teams that had earned first round byes, by the way) right down to the wire. All without a single player on our roster who could honestly say he's the very best in the NFL at what he does.

And I agree about Woodson too, but, it doesn't make sense to complain about our veteran stars if we are complaining about the youth movement at the same time. If Woodson was 22 rather than 32, yet made the exact same contribution to the team that he has this year, people would still bitch about our team being too young. No veteran leadership. FFS TT, why don't you bring in a 29/30/31 year old with experience! That's what people would say. So while I wish he was a bit younger too, I'm not going to bitch about it. Besides, he still plays like he's 25 anyway, so there's not a whole lot to complain about in the first place.

And, to be honest, only one of our top 3 picks have turned out to be busts. Our 3 highest picks during the TT era have been Aaron Rodgers (#24 overall), AJ Hawk (#5) and Justin Harrell (#16). Harrell is getting close to being labelled a bust, but I'll give him one more year to prove me wrong. Hawk is no bust - perhaps not as great as #5 overall would suggest, but certainly no bust either. Rodgers... You have a point in his late, late game performances, but regardless, 4k yards with a 2:1 TD to INT ratio? Not a bust, not even close. The only other guy to put up numbers like that in his first year starting was 2 time MVP Kurt Warner.

So assuming you call Harrell one of the top 2 picks who have become big time busts, who is the other one you were thinking of?

[Lurker64]

There isn't anything to admit. He didn't make the pro bowl, therefore he is not a pro bowl quarterback. He didn't deserve to make the pro bowl, or he would be there.

This is an odd line of reasoning. You claim essentially that since Rodgers did not make the pro bowl he is not a "pro bowl quarterback" and hence not a particularly good one. Yet for this to make sense, the pro bowl would have to accurately represent which players are the best at their positions, and I've never seen any evidence that this is true. Regularly, the pro-bowl elects the players who are most popular at their positions, and I would agree with you that Rodgers is insufficiently popular to win the popularity contest that is "being elected to the pro bowl." But seriously, Mike Alstott was elected to the pro bowl six times at a position he didn't even play because he was a very large guy who ran with the ball and scored more TDs than other people his size, so he was clearly the "best" fullback. Because Alstott was on sportscenter regularly seeing him run for TDs, guys who were actually better FBs who did the dirty unglamorous work of the fullback like William Henderson and Mack Strong were regularly passed up. So no, the best players don't make the pro-bowl. The most popular players do, and there's a significant bias for the big market teams, as well.

So since Rodgers cannot yet win a popularity contest in his first year, he's not particularly good? Alternatively, are you just paying way more attention to the pro bowl than it deserves.

I mean, hell, Drew Brees didn't make the pro bowl this year. Do you really think that the Pro Bowl with any reliability selects the players who are having the best years at their positions? No QB had a better year than Drew Brees this year.