If we switch to 3-4

[pbmax]

Here is the problem, it is not whether you run a 3-4 or 4-3, the problem is finding a defensive mind that can run a flexible system that combines the best of both worlds. For instance the Patriots. Sure they are labeled a 3-4 but god damn it if I haven't seen the Patriots line up with 4 defensive linemen with their hand on the ground. Sure if Bob Sanders was running a 3-4 you would only ever see three down linemen. The one thing a defense can't do is become predictable and under Sanders that is exactly what it became whether you are talking 4 man lined fronts or only running man coverage, any dolt assistant coach on a high JV team can figure out how to beat man coverage if that is the only thing that is shown to him.

I agree, but the base alignment does matter because that will dictate starting personnel to a large degree. So we can't guess where Kampman lines up until we know which flavor 3-4 we are getting.

After that question Nutz, then I agree you have to go mutiple front and even when you send four after the QB, make them guess.

[pack4to84]

I was hoping that MM was true to his word he wanted to switch to 3-4 defense. He was Dom Capers brings knowledge of 3-4 and 4-3 hybrid. He is teacher type coach so this is important for a team making a switch. MM could have been wanting to interview Butler from the Steelers, but when they won yesterday he couldn't wait 2 more weeks for him. Dom Capers is who I wanted once he became part of the mix for our DC. Impressive track record. I believe he is the right man for the job. He bring experience vs a new coordinator learning on the job like Sanders had to do. Sanders wasn't as bad as some think. He hit a wall like some rookies/2nd year players do. He wasn't getting any better in his play calling. When your defense fails 7 out of 7 times in like matter he never got over the hump. He had to be let go. I was afraid we would get a DC that was going to have to learn on the job. I didn't want that. We have a lot of young talent. Dom being a teacher type could mold them into his style.

[Fritz]

Can't wait to hear what they say at the presser about what kind of D it will be.

[pbmax]

My guess is that you will her the words aggressive and attack. Just a guess.

[texaspackerbacker]

The one blessing from all the injuries last season is that we now do have good personnel for the 3-4.

I think Hawk will thrive on the inside, and Barnett will continue to be excellent. I don't see any problem with Kampman playing 3-4 DE even without bulking up. The 3-4 is first and foremost an excellent run stopping scheme because of the four linebackers--more bend-don't-break than pressure. In that context, I would think you could get by with a lighter better pass rushing DE. For that matter, Kampman probably could do all right as a 3-4 linebacker too. He's smart, and if you can get short zone coverage from a D Lineman on occasion with zone blitzing, Kampman could certainly handle the same responsibility from a OLB spot. I don't think they will go that route, though.

I see the lineup like this:

Pickett backed up by Harrell at NT

Jenkins, Kampman, backed up by Jolly and Montgomery at DE

Barnett, Hawk at ILB, backed up by Bishop

Popinga, Chillar, Hunt, Thompson in some combination and rotation at OLB

And business as usual at DB.

No D Lineman or LB would need to be drafted at all, although getting an Everett Brown-type potential superstar outside rusher would be a luxury item worth considering--far more with the 3-4 than with the 4-3.

Hopefully, if we hear the words "pressure" or "aggressive", they are accompanied by the words "a small amount of" or "occasionally".

[mraynrand]

Can't wait to hear what they say at the presser about what kind of D it will be.

I think McCarthy will be as obtuse about the defense as he's been regarding the ZBS.

[mraynrand]

The one blessing from all the injuries last season is that we now do have good personnel for the 3-4.

I think Hawk will thrive on the inside, and Barnett will continue to be excellent. I don't see any problem with Kampman playing 3-4 DE even without bulking up. The 3-4 is first and foremost an excellent run stopping scheme because of the four linebackers--more bend-don't-break than pressure. In that context, I would think you could get by with a lighter better pass rushing DE. For that matter, Kampman probably could do all right as a 3-4 linebacker too. He's smart, and if you can get short zone coverage from a D Lineman on occasion with zone blitzing, Kampman could certainly handle the same responsibility from a OLB spot. I don't think they will go that route, though.

I see the lineup like this:

Pickett backed up by Harrell at NT

Jenkins, Kampman, backed up by Jolly and Montgomery at DE

Barnett, Hawk at ILB, backed up by Bishop

Popinga, Chillar, Hunt, Thompson in some combination and rotation at OLB

And business as usual at DB.

No D Lineman or LB would need to be drafted at all, although getting an Everett Brown-type potential superstar outside rusher would be a luxury item worth considering--far more with the 3-4 than with the 4-3.

Hopefully, if we hear the words "pressure" or "aggressive", they are accompanied by the words "a small amount of" or "occasionally".

Let me see if I understand this correctly: Injuries improved the defense's ability to be 3-4? Kampman an OLB running around in space? Geezus, I choke every time I hear that. Why would anyone think Kampman could be an OLB in a 3-4?

[Joemailman]

Barnett isn't big enough to play inside in a 3-4. The ILB's have to be bigger because they only have one DT in front of them to occupy the interior linemen. Poppinga, Bishop and Hawk might be able to play there. I suspect this will be a gradual transition, with the Packers drafting players who fit into a 3-4.

[Waldo]

Barnett isn't big enough to play inside in a 3-4. The ILB's have to be bigger because they only have one DT in front of them to occupy the interior linemen. Poppinga, Bishop and Hawk might be able to play there. I suspect this will be a gradual transition, with the Packers drafting players who fit into a 3-4.

On a good % of 3-4's, one DE slants down to the G, and the NT eats the other two, leaving the OLB (usually the weakside) one on one with the T.

[rbaloha1]

Still maintain current Packers are a bad fit for the prototypical 3-4.

Having a DC who has experience in multiple schemes greatly enhances defensive success.

Capers will have the proper schemes to fit the personnel which is a 4-3 look with 3-4 tendencies.

[pack4to84]

I still can't get why people think Kampman can't play OLB in a 3-4 defense. 1 of the OLB blitz 80% of the time. The other 20% drops in zones in the flat. I know Kampman has drop into zones so this would be nothing new for him. While blitzing from a wide angle that gives him an advantage over the OT. In some cases Kampman would be blocked only by a RB. I will bet Kampman every time vs a RB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Barnett isn't big enough to play inside in a 3-4. The ILB's have to be bigger because they only have one DT in front of them to occupy the interior linemen. Poppinga, Bishop and Hawk might be able to play there. I suspect this will be a gradual transition, with the Packers drafting players who fit into a 3-4.

Not all LBs in the 3-4 are big. Barnett is 6'2" 236.

Zach Thomas is 5'11" 228
Jerod Mayo is 6'1" 242
James Harrison is 6'0" 242
Larry Foote is 6'1" 239
Stephen Cooper is 6'1" 235
Patrick Willis is 6'1" 240
Takeo Spikes is 6'2" 242

Seems that every 3-4 team has one LB that is comparable in size to Barnett. It helps to be bigger, but it's not a given that Barnett wouldn't be able to fit the scheme. We'll see.

[bobblehead]

I think Barnett getting injured made this an easier move as I don't see how he fits in a 3-4.

Guys that benefit a lot. Jason Hunter, Poppinga, Bishop.

Guys that benefit a little. Hawk, Jenkins, Chillar

Guys that might be gone. Barnett (after reading Harveys post which wasn't there when I started this I am more optimistic)

Guys that are slightly hurt. Kampman, Jolly

It looks pretty much a push on paper, now add in FA's like Bart Scott and Terell Suggs, and Draft prospects at #9 and I think we could come out of this with a 10-12 ranked defense next year if they learn well.

I think it takes the pressure off to break the bank on a FA DLineman. It relieves pressure to draft a DLineman. We could grab a LT now if one is there and not feel like we "needed" to go D.

I see this next year for a front 7.

Kampman, Pickett, Jenkins rotating Jolly, Harrel??, Montgomery

Chillar, Hawk, Bishop, Poppinga FA and draft in the mix

I won't speculate on how the backups and special teams backups play out as I don't know their skills enough in many cases. I think Hunter is a wildcard as his skills and high motor might really benefit playing OLB on passing downs. He is also good on ST and probably can lineup in several spots and excel as long as the offense can't predict it. He doesn't seem to do well when the Off knows where he is going to be ahead of time, but I could see him moving around a bit and excelling here.

[packers11]

doesn't this benefit our CB's??? They don't have to cover the WR for 5 seconds now because there will be pressure on the QB...

The ravens yesterday had Frank Walker starting, I have a feeling our corners will thrive in the 3-4...

[Patler]

Just listened to MM's press conference.
He said both Jenkins and Kampman should be excited about the change. Emphasized many times that this should be a very good defense for Kampman, and mentioned that he could line up some in the linebacker spot.