CNNSI.com Take on Switch to 3-4

[sharpe1027]

First time reading a Wist post?

Not really. I had a good discussion with Wist about whether or not Rodgers would fail because Wist believed that the West Coast Offense required a HoF QB. It was a classic chicken or the egg argument. Yet, it still surprised me how utterly hopeless he sees the current guys abilities for a new defense. Granted, there are some important differences, but fast, strong, tough and intelligent goes well with any defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think he's saying that Kampman will find a way to be more than just ok.

OK, the people who believe so strongly that Kampman can succeed in 3-4 ought to at least be able to name a position! It might even help Aaron out, he needs to know now whether he should be gaining or losing weight.

I think Leoroy Butler is a valid comparison. He was a hall of fame player at safety (well, GBHF, at least ) I don't think he would be any more than good had he stayed at CB his whole career. The S position maximized his unique talents.

Most people that know more than I do think Kampman would be a OLB. Kampman has the same size and speed as most of the good OLBs in the 3-4 scheme. What don't you think he has that the other guys have?

[HarveyWallbangers]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/38512934.html

Article says Kampman will play Woodley's position of SOLB. A Steelers coach said that Capers will likely "use the slightly offset line more than the two-gap," and said Capers will not "override what the players can do."

Woodley is 6'1" 266. He ran the 40 in 4.74. (He ran between 4.68 and 4.84 and was given this as his official time.) His vertical leap was 38". His shuttle run (primarily, a test of agility) was 4.42.

At Kampman's campus workout, he was 6'4" 288. He ran the 40 in 4.68. (He ran between 4.66 and 4.70.) His vertical leap was 35 1/2". His shuttle run was 4.04.

Kampman tested as good or better than Woodley, and he was 288 then. He's now down to 265, so I would imagine his numbers might even better.

Makes you wonder how scouts missed on Kampman.

[bobblehead]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/38512934.html

Article says Kampman will play Woodley's position of SOLB. A Steelers coach said that Capers will likely "use the slightly offset line more than the two-gap," and said Capers will not "override what the players can do."

Woodley is 6'1" 266. He ran the 40 in 4.74. (He ran between 4.68 and 4.84 and was given this as his official time.) His vertical leap was 38". His shuttle run (primarily, a test of agility) was 4.42.

At Kampman's campus workout, he was 6'4" 288. He ran the 40 in 4.68. (He ran between 4.66 and 4.70.) His vertical leap was 35 1/2". His shuttle run was 4.04.

Kampman tested as good or better than Woodley, and he was 288 then. He's now down to 265, so I would imagine his numbers might even better.

Makes you wonder how scouts missed on Kampman.

Mark Hatley didn't...man I wish he hadn't up and died.

[Waldo]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/38512934.html

Article says Kampman will play Woodley's position of SOLB. A Steelers coach said that Capers will likely "use the slightly offset line more than the two-gap," and said Capers will not "override what the players can do."

Woodley is 6'1" 266. He ran the 40 in 4.74. (He ran between 4.68 and 4.84 and was given this as his official time.) His vertical leap was 38". His shuttle run (primarily, a test of agility) was 4.42.

At Kampman's campus workout, he was 6'4" 288. He ran the 40 in 4.68. (He ran between 4.66 and 4.70.) His vertical leap was 35 1/2". His shuttle run was 4.04.

Kampman tested as good or better than Woodley, and he was 288 then. He's now down to 265, so I would imagine his numbers might even better.

Makes you wonder how scouts missed on Kampman.

Kamp wasn't invited to the combine. He was a first team all-American LB in HS and the highest rated LB recruit in the state of Iowa (in addition to being a basketball and track star). He was good enough that he started at OLB as a true freshman in college, and was a darn good linebacker his freshman and sophomore years. His junior year the HC of the team changed, and the new HC moved him to end. As a junior, his first season at end, he stunk. His senior year he had put on more weight an he did a pretty decent job, but not good enough to earn a combine invite. Something weird happened at his pro day, most scouts clocked him a lot slower than the Packers did. It is possible that a Tramon Williams type situation happened where he ran bad on a unfamiliar surface, he asked the scouts to rerun on a different surface, most left but a few hung around to give him a shot, and ran substantially better on the second run (Tramon's "official" time was ~4.6 on a crappy wet track, the Texans and Packers clocked him at 4.4 on a second run on grass that other scouts didn't bother to watch). If you read up on the history of Kamp, he tells the story that they asked him why he thought they drafted him, he gave a litany of reasons about his positives, and the coaches told him straight up that he was drafted for his 40 time, and 40 time alone.

[Patler]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/38512934.html

At Kampman's campus workout, he was 6'4" 288. He ran the 40 in 4.68. (He ran between 4.66 and 4.70.) His vertical leap was 35 1/2". His shuttle run was 4.04.

That is an extremely impressive shuttle run time. It is better than every tight end time at the combine last year. Leads me to believe Kampman would not be "too stiff" in coverage.

How many remember the game a couple years ago, when the Vikings tried to block Kampman with a tight end in the first half? Kampman trashed the guy play after play and had a couple sacks and a couple near sack knockdowns in the first half alone. The TV announcers were perplexed about the Vikings thinking.

With Kampman as an OLB in a 3-4, they can possibly force favorable matchups like that more often.

[Noodle]

If you read up on the history of Kamp, he tells the story that they asked him why he thought they drafted him, he gave a litany of reasons about his positives, and the coaches told him straight up that he was drafted for his 40 time, and 40 time alone.

If so, that is friggin horrifying. 40 times, especially for DL, are about as worthless as teats on a steer. Now the shuttle run tells me something that I want to know about a DL, but not a 40 time. If true, our personnel people were friggin morons. But it does explain some things . . .

[Harlan Huckleby]

OK, resolved, Kampman is now a linebacker. So we can stop talking about Kampman putting on 20 pounds and playing on the line.

I have zero idea if Kampman can excel at linebacker. I did hear some comments on radio that Kampman looked stiff when he has dropped into coverage in current scheme. Chewy says he will be helpless trying to guard a tight end. But that may all be wrong.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have zero idea if Kampman can excel at linebacker. I did hear some comments on radio that Kampman looked stiff when he has dropped into coverage in current scheme. Chewy says he will be helpless trying to guard a tight end. But that may all be wrong.

Who knows how it will work. However, most of the 3-4 OLBs would have trouble guarding a TE man-on-man. That's not how the zone blitz works. Plus, Kampman isn't going to be asked to drop back much, but it will give him the ability to move around a bit. Athletically, I think Kampman is fine for the spot. The bigger questions might be: 1) how will he adjust to rushing without a hand on the grand, 2) a lot of his pressures now happen because he has the ability to set up the OT. He won't get benefit now. I have a funny feeling that he'll be a pretty damn good SOLB in this scheme. A lot like Bryce Paup. The guy didn't always look like he'd be effective, but in the end he was pretty damn good.

[Lurker64]

Also, in Kampman's favor in terms of playing SOLB in the 3-4 is that he did play Linebacker in high school and college up until his Junior Year (Kirk Ferentz's first year) when the coaches asked him to move to defensive end because of a surplus of LBs and a dearth of DEs. Unlike some guys you convert from DE to 3-4 OLB, Kampman does have experience playing in space, and he wasn't totally lost out there doing it, either.

[Patler]

If so, that is friggin horrifying. 40 times, especially for DL, are about as worthless as teats on a steer.

40 times can be extremely important....just think of all those late substitutions when they are trying to get a lineman off the field for a pass rush specialist, extra DB or LB, etc. If the lineman is too slow, it could cost you 5 yards!

Other than that, linemen don't run that much!

[wist43]

First time reading a Wist post?

Not really. I had a good discussion with Wist about whether or not Rodgers would fail because Wist believed that the West Coast Offense required a HoF QB. It was a classic chicken or the egg argument. Yet, it still surprised me how utterly hopeless he sees the current guys abilities for a new defense. Granted, there are some important differences, but fast, strong, tough and intelligent goes well with any defense.

I don't see it as hopeless... I'm just raising red flags, and given what is being said at 1265, i.e. they think they have the personnel in-house to execute a 3-4, that should be enough to cause any Packer fan to be concerned. They clearly don't have the personnel... hell, they didn't have good personnel to execute the 4-3.

I've been calling for a 3-4 for years... and all the while, the pollyanna optimists in here have been telling me how great the Bates scheme was, and how great our players were... a bunch of hooey on both counts.

I want to see a complete turnover on defense... Jenkins can play DE in a 3-4, but he is about the only guy on the entire roster that fits a 3-4.

Given the way they seem to be going about changing schemes... I see it as more desperation than anything else, and given that TT is unlikely to do much in terms of outfitting a 3-4 scheme... I'm not optimistic it will work, and I'm fully expecting that Capers will be running a 4-3 almost exclusively by mid-season.

[Gunakor]

Most people that know more than I do think Kampman would be a OLB. Kampman has the same size and speed as most of the good OLBs in the 3-4 scheme. What don't you think he has that the other guys have?

The instinct of an NFL OLB, for starters. Measurables only take you so far. You can be the biggest, fastest, strongest player at your position but if you don't have the instinct to match you won't excel as others will. If all it took was measureables to succeed, Ahmad Carroll would be a Pro Bowl cornerback on our defense. Ahmad's problem was that, well, he just didn't know how to play the position. And that's my fear with moving Kampman to OLB. Sure he has the speed and size to play OLB, but CAN he play OLB. I guess we'll see soon enough.

[cpk1994]

I want to see a complete turnover on defense... Jenkins can play DE in a 3-4, but he is about the only guy on the entire roster that fits a 3-4.

This is a completely idiotic statement. I would like to see your proof of this, which should be a humdinger as none of these players has played a single down in the 3-4 system Capers is planning to play. How about giving them a chance first before completely wrting them off?

[Waldo]

I want to see a complete turnover on defense... Jenkins can play DE in a 3-4, but he is about the only guy on the entire roster that fits a 3-4.

This is a completely idiotic statement. I would like to see your proof of this, which should be a humdinger as none of these players has played a single down in the 3-4 system Capers is planning to play. How about giving them a chance first before completely wrting them off?

You can say the same thing about a 4-3. Most of our players are a terrible fit for a Tampa-2 4-3. Our players aren't a good fit for a traditional Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 (that from which all the "rules" are derived), fortunately we are running a Capers/Lebeau 3-4, and those rules don't apply.