Justin Harrell

[sharpe1027]

I wasn't just talking about Favre's car accident. Supposedly, the Packer's team doctors told Wolf to cancel the trade because Favre failed his physical. The doctors thought he was a serious injury risk for injuring his hip (same problem as Bo Jackson).

I would call that way more definitive evidence of injury problems than in the case of Harrell. Harrell passed all physicals and was expected to make a full recovery from his injuries, which he did. The injuries were unrelated so drawing conclusions about his back injuries from a torn bicep and broken ankle is nothing but 20/20 hindsight complaining.

I disagree with your philosophy and I think that it is a good thing that Wolf didn't follow your philosophy.

[BooHoo]

As a fan it is difficult to see a First Round pick not contribute to the team. Who could we have picked instead that would have started?

[Merlin]

Re: Justin Harrell

A few things I have come across in the last week:

- He is in Green Bay working out to rehab his back.
- Another surgery has not been ruled out, but the doctors want to try rehab first.
- An unnamed scout said his notes from watching him at TN were that he was "born to play DE in a 3-4".
- Trgovac said he is a "very talented player" if they can get him healthy.
- One of the 3-4 gurus (I've forgotten which one) said Harrell was exactly the type of player you look for in a 3-4 DE.

IF , and it is a huge "IF" they can get both of them healthy, Harrell and Jenkins could be nice fits in the 3-4. Unfortunately, I have a feeling, based on nothing concrete at all, that this back thing will be the end of Harrell's NFL career. I think they are doing everything they can to avoid a third back surgery, which they probably believe will be the end for him. Rehab this off season might be his last shot. Too bad.

I hope this is turns out to be the case because at this point, we can't afford anymore DL downtime. And if it does, you have to ask yourself what we were doing taking an injured player best suited for the 3-4 defense when we were running a 4-3 defense. Jenkins being healthy isn't a foregone conclusion either. I think no matter who lines up, it will take time to transition to the 3-4 and we really won't know who is best suited for this transition until we see them play.

[Waldo]

Re: Justin Harrell

A few things I have come across in the last week:

- He is in Green Bay working out to rehab his back.
- Another surgery has not been ruled out, but the doctors want to try rehab first.
- An unnamed scout said his notes from watching him at TN were that he was "born to play DE in a 3-4".
- Trgovac said he is a "very talented player" if they can get him healthy.
- One of the 3-4 gurus (I've forgotten which one) said Harrell was exactly the type of player you look for in a 3-4 DE.

IF , and it is a huge "IF" they can get both of them healthy, Harrell and Jenkins could be nice fits in the 3-4. Unfortunately, I have a feeling, based on nothing concrete at all, that this back thing will be the end of Harrell's NFL career. I think they are doing everything they can to avoid a third back surgery, which they probably believe will be the end for him. Rehab this off season might be his last shot. Too bad.

I hope this is turns out to be the case because at this point, we can't afford anymore DL downtime. And if it does, you have to ask yourself what we were doing taking an injured player best suited for the 3-4 defense when we were running a 4-3 defense. Jenkins being healthy isn't a foregone conclusion either. I think no matter who lines up, it will take time to transition to the 3-4 and we really won't know who is best suited for this transition until we see them play.

Most players can play in both the 3-4 and 4-3 just fine. The point of defensive football is to block guys and tackle guys. Instinctive players are instinctive in all systems. Great athletes are great athletes in all systems. Good football players are good football players in all systems. It is very rare that this doesn't hold true for (name another good player other than Vilma that wasn't a "fit" for the 3-4). The biggest problem switching from one system to another is not that your players won't work, it is that you have a roster allotment of X number of players for this position and Y number of players for that position. Those #'s are now wrong. We need more 4-3 UT's and NT's and less 4-3 LB's.

Justin runs a faster 10 yd split, can jump higher (more explosive), bench more, and move side to side better than Kevin Williams. He is a UT with NT power, not a NT. He has a UT body and UT athleticism. He is an ideal 3-4 DE.

[SnakeLH2006]

This thread is getting out of hand.

Could Harrell be a good DE in a 3-4. Yes.

Is Harrell healthy. No.

Does Harrell have a track record of being healthy. No.

Will Harrell likely contribute as a starting DE in 3-4 in 2009. Likely not.

Can we depend on him in 2009. No.

Should we give Cole/Montgomery millions as UFA's because they "were" Packers. No.

Should we look at plausible options in FA and the draft to upgrade DE regardless? Yes.

[Partial]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

Comparing him to Kevin Williams is a joke. Harrell isn't 1/20th of the player.

[Patler]

Re: Justin Harrell

you have to ask yourself what we were doing taking an injured player best suited for the 3-4 defense when we were running a 4-3 defense.

I guess for the same reason that Cleveland was willing to pay big money to Cory Williams to play DE in a 3-4 after he was a decent player at tackle in a 4-3 for the Packers.

[Patler]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

If that were the case, then why shortly after he was drafted was he listed as the starter at tackle next to Pickett? If you recall, that was a point of contention for Williams, with Harrell being designated the starter going into TC his rookie year.

[Bretsky]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

If that were the case, then why shortly after he was drafted was he listed as the starter at tackle next to Pickett? If you recall, that was a point of contention for Williams, with Harrell being designated the starter going into TC his rookie year.

a pretty sad memory if I recall; surely he did not earn it

From the little we've seen at this point I too agree he's a run stuffer and not a pass rushing threat

[Partial]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

If that were the case, then why shortly after he was drafted was he listed as the starter at tackle next to Pickett? If you recall, that was a point of contention for Williams, with Harrell being designated the starter going into TC his rookie year.

Corey Williams was a designated pass rusher type of guy, then. On first and second down the tackles responsibilies were to stop the run, not get after the QB.

[Patler]

Corey Williams was a designated pass rusher type of guy, then. On first and second down the tackles responsibilies were to stop the run, not get after the QB.

Nice try, but wrong. Williams was the returning starter from 2006, having started 11 of their 16 games and the last 8 in a row. That is what had him upset. He said he had earned the starting spot the previous year, and then it was given to Harrell without a practice having been run.

[Waldo]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

If that were the case, then why shortly after he was drafted was he listed as the starter at tackle next to Pickett? If you recall, that was a point of contention for Williams, with Harrell being designated the starter going into TC his rookie year.

His target weight also is 310-315. That is not NT weight.

[Partial]

Corey Williams was a designated pass rusher type of guy, then. On first and second down the tackles responsibilies were to stop the run, not get after the QB.

Nice try, but wrong. Williams was the returning starter from 2006, having started 11 of their 16 games and the last 8 in a row. That is what had him upset. He said he had earned the starting spot the previous year, and then it was given to Harrell without a practice having been run.

Yeah, I get that, but Harrell was touted as being the superior run stuffer, so he got the nod based on the tackles primary objective. Williams was much better at getting after the passer and keeping him fresh for third down was a goal at that point.

[Waldo]

Corey Williams was a designated pass rusher type of guy, then. On first and second down the tackles responsibilies were to stop the run, not get after the QB.

Nice try, but wrong. Williams was the returning starter from 2006, having started 11 of their 16 games and the last 8 in a row. That is what had him upset. He said he had earned the starting spot the previous year, and then it was given to Harrell without a practice having been run.

Yeah, I get that, but Harrell was touted as being the superior run stuffer, so he got the nod based on the tackles primary objective. Williams was much better at getting after the passer and keeping him fresh for third down was a goal at that point.

Keeping him off the field in all but situational play was a goal at that point. Is Mn looking to get a run stuffer to rotate with Kevin so they can keep him fresh for rushing the passer? No. Corey was a big liability against the run.

[Waldo]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

Comparing him to Kevin Williams is a joke. Harrell isn't 1/20th of the player.

That is according to? The JS, the GBPG? Those guys don't even know football basics. Harrell has never lined up anywhere other than UT. He has however done presnap in-stance shifts into the 1 tech slot to act as Cole deodorant.

Combine info:
Height: Williams 6'4.7", Harrell 6'4.3"
Weight: Williams 304, Harrell 300 <- Virtually identical height/weight
Arm Length: Williams 34.5", Harrell 33.25" <- Advantage Williams
40 yd dash: Williams 4.81, Harrell 5.04 <- Advantage Williams
10 yd split: Williams 1.68, Harrell 1.67 <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Vertical jump: Williams 30", Harrell 30.5" <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Broad jump: Williams 9.33', Harrell 9.0' <- Advantage Williams (slight)
Short shuttle: Williams 5.04, Harrell 4.79 <- Advantage Harrell
3 cone: Williams 7.66, Harrell 7.63 <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Bench: Williams 23, Harrell 24 <- Advantage Harrell (he put up 31 at his pro day, and was still recovering from his bicep tear).

Justin's agility is as good as Kevin, he is faster side to side, they both have about equal explosion, Kevin has better long speed but their short speed is equal, Justin is a lot stronger than Kevin. Kevin's draft stock was as high as it was based off of his measurables. Justin's are every bit as good, if not better. TT took a chance on a stud athlete. Justin has UT measurables, not NT measurables.