Justin Harrell

[wist43]

If you've got Harrell starting anywhere along your DL, you've got major problems...

He has the look of a guy who will be out of the league after only a few years... he's a bust.

[Waldo]

If you've got Harrell starting anywhere along your DL, you've got major problems...

He has the look of a guy who will be out of the league after only a few years... he's a bust.

He should have been starting this year when he was healthy, and probably would have if Jolly didn't have a fluke good game against Mn. Harrell was consistently better per snap than Jolly and Cole. At times Jolly and Cole looked downright awful. Harrell never looked bad.

The only time Justin ever looked bad on the field was early his rookie year. Down the stretch he looked quite good.

In '07 Justin led the DL in tackles per snap.
In '08 Justin was #3 on the DL (#2 among DT's (Pickett)) in tackles per snap and #1 on the team in TFL's per snap.

[run pMc]

I'd like to see him healthy in camp before making any assessment of whether he's a bust or not. He's been hurt too much to really say, and his injury history makes it easy to write him off. The point about Adrian Peterson and his injury history is well made -- IMO he would have been drafted top 5 (if not Top 3) had there not been questions about his injuries and running style. Give MN credit for taking a big risk on the guy, especially when they already had Chester Taylor and a nonexistent passing game. He's their most dangerous and productive player.

Back to Harrell.

If the kid can't get/stay healthy, then I think he's probably run out of chances and chalk it up to bad luck (think Mark D'Onofrio, T.Murphy, etc.). Given how people complain about TT being conservative, it's hypocritical to fault TT for taking a gamble. Virtually every draft pick is a gamble.

If he can get healthy and stay that way, and his measurables are as good as waldo cites, then it becomes a question of whether he can play for Capers. I don't expect an Adrian Peterson-like impact from Harrell, especially if he's a Capers DE, but like everyone else I want to see if he's any good. Until that's determined, I'm staying on the fence. I just haven't seen enough to really say he's either a starter or a bust.

All this does make good watercooler talk.

[Waldo]

I'd like to see him healthy in camp before making any assessment of whether he's a bust or not. He's been hurt too much to really say, and his injury history makes it easy to write him off. The point about Adrian Peterson and his injury history is well made -- IMO he would have been drafted top 5 (if not Top 3) had there not been questions about his injuries and running style. Give MN credit for taking a big risk on the guy, especially when they already had Chester Taylor and a nonexistent passing game. He's their most dangerous and productive player.

Back to Harrell.

If the kid can't get/stay healthy, then I think he's probably run out of chances and chalk it up to bad luck (think Mark D'Onofrio, T.Murphy, etc.). Given how people complain about TT being conservative, it's hypocritical to fault TT for taking a gamble. Virtually every draft pick is a gamble.

If he can get healthy and stay that way, and his measurables are as good as waldo cites, then it becomes a question of whether he can play for Capers. I don't expect an Adrian Peterson-like impact from Harrell, especially if he's a Capers DE, but like everyone else I want to see if he's any good. Until that's determined, I'm staying on the fence. I just haven't seen enough to really say he's either a starter or a bust.

All this does make good watercooler talk.

K Williams' Measurables
J Harrell's Measurables

I'm not making stuff up. When various people said that he would have been a top 10 pick if it weren't for his bicep tear, they weren't full of crap. He has top 10 measurables, only a handful of DT's this decade have had better measurables.

[KYPack]

[quote="Patler"]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

A 3 technique tackle is the run stuffer. In the Sanders defense, both tackles played 3 tech 99% of the time.

Harrell was a helluva a prospect. In any evaluation of him presently, those two back surgeries with consideration for a 3rd have to come into play. The only place for him is end in a 3-4. Those guys play a 4 technique if anybodies keeping score.

I hope he makes it, but I seriously doubt he will.

[Waldo]

[quote="KYPack"]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

A 3 technique tackle is the run stuffer. In the Sanders defense, both tackles played 3 tech 99% of the time.

Harrell was a helluva a prospect. In any evaluation of him presently, those two back surgeries with consideration for a 3rd have to come into play. The only place for him is end in a 3-4. Those guys play a 4 technique if anybodies keeping score.

I hope he makes it, but I seriously doubt he will.

Pickett lined up at 1 tech (in the A gap) 95%+ of the time. They occasionally made a line shift, but that was usually done when Cole/Harrell were on the field and not when Pickett was.

[rbaloha1]

Should JH overcome injuries the guy has a chance to be really good in the scheme.

JH reminds of Issac Sapoaga from the 49ers which translates to a 3-4 end able to tie up blockers.

IMO this staff will be able to maximize JH's potential.

[run pMc]

I'm not making stuff up.

Sorry, I wasn't implying you were. BTW, thanks for the links...interesting stuff. I've read numerous times that he would have been a top 5/top10 pick without the injury. I'd be thrilled if Harrell played up to his potential (and stayed healthy).

[Partial]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

Comparing him to Kevin Williams is a joke. Harrell isn't 1/20th of the player.

That is according to? The JS, the GBPG? Those guys don't even know football basics. Harrell has never lined up anywhere other than UT. He has however done presnap in-stance shifts into the 1 tech slot to act as Cole deodorant.

Combine info:
Height: Williams 6'4.7", Harrell 6'4.3"
Weight: Williams 304, Harrell 300 <- Virtually identical height/weight
Arm Length: Williams 34.5", Harrell 33.25" <- Advantage Williams
40 yd dash: Williams 4.81, Harrell 5.04 <- Advantage Williams
10 yd split: Williams 1.68, Harrell 1.67 <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Vertical jump: Williams 30", Harrell 30.5" <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Broad jump: Williams 9.33', Harrell 9.0' <- Advantage Williams (slight)
Short shuttle: Williams 5.04, Harrell 4.79 <- Advantage Harrell
3 cone: Williams 7.66, Harrell 7.63 <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Bench: Williams 23, Harrell 24 <- Advantage Harrell (he put up 31 at his pro day, and was still recovering from his bicep tear).

Justin's agility is as good as Kevin, he is faster side to side, they both have about equal explosion, Kevin has better long speed but their short speed is equal, Justin is a lot stronger than Kevin. Kevin's draft stock was as high as it was based off of his measurables. Justin's are every bit as good, if not better. TT took a chance on a stud athlete. Justin has UT measurables, not NT measurables.

OH OK guy You keep living on those combine numbers. Significantly stronger? He did one more rep at the combine. I'd bet the farm that KWill lifts more now.

I don't give a shit how they tested. I care that Williams is a premiere player, and Harell, even when healthy, hasn't been able to get on the field consistently, and even when he has, he certainly didn't perform.

[Waldo]

Lets stop referring to people as under and over tackles. You guys are talking out of your asses.

Harrell was going to be the run stuffer, not the three technique tackle.

Comparing him to Kevin Williams is a joke. Harrell isn't 1/20th of the player.

That is according to? The JS, the GBPG? Those guys don't even know football basics. Harrell has never lined up anywhere other than UT. He has however done presnap in-stance shifts into the 1 tech slot to act as Cole deodorant.

Combine info:
Height: Williams 6'4.7", Harrell 6'4.3"
Weight: Williams 304, Harrell 300 <- Virtually identical height/weight
Arm Length: Williams 34.5", Harrell 33.25" <- Advantage Williams
40 yd dash: Williams 4.81, Harrell 5.04 <- Advantage Williams
10 yd split: Williams 1.68, Harrell 1.67 <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Vertical jump: Williams 30", Harrell 30.5" <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Broad jump: Williams 9.33', Harrell 9.0' <- Advantage Williams (slight)
Short shuttle: Williams 5.04, Harrell 4.79 <- Advantage Harrell
3 cone: Williams 7.66, Harrell 7.63 <- Advantage Harrell (slight)
Bench: Williams 23, Harrell 24 <- Advantage Harrell (he put up 31 at his pro day, and was still recovering from his bicep tear).

Justin's agility is as good as Kevin, he is faster side to side, they both have about equal explosion, Kevin has better long speed but their short speed is equal, Justin is a lot stronger than Kevin. Kevin's draft stock was as high as it was based off of his measurables. Justin's are every bit as good, if not better. TT took a chance on a stud athlete. Justin has UT measurables, not NT measurables.

OH OK guy You keep living on those combine numbers. Significantly stronger? He did one more rep at the combine. I'd bet the farm that KWill lifts more now.

I don't give a shit how they tested. I care that Williams is a premiere player, and Harell, even when healthy, hasn't been able to get on the field consistently, and even when he has, he certainly didn't perform.

Harrell was still recovering from his torn bicep during training camp. That surely had an effect on his bench numbers. At his pro day a month later, Justin did 31 reps. You're the one claiming that he was drafted to be a run stopper. Prove it. I gave an example of a good pass rushing DT that he was almost physically identical to on draft day. Run stuffers aren't first round picks.

You certainly can't tell the difference between good play and bad play by a DT if you claim he didn't perform on the field. Just because that is what they write in the GBPG and JS, doesn't make it true.

How many times has a RB successfully gotten past a gap next to Justin in the last season and a half? He's played 300 or so snaps, about 225 in the last season and a half. I would wager a decent chunk of change that a RB hasn't gotten past the gap on either side of him more than 10 times in those 225 snaps.

[bobblehead]

NOw I am unimpressed. As a 24 year old weighing 190lbs I put 225 up 23 times in the only time I ever even tried it....these guys are huge fucking pussies.

[Waldo]

NOw I am unimpressed. As a 24 year old weighing 190lbs I put 225 up 23 times in the only time I ever even tried it....these guys are huge fucking pussies.

Do you have 34" long arms (most guys don't have 34" legs)?

There is a cubic relationship between arm length and bench reps/pectoral strength.

A longer arm, even a small amount, has a significant effect on the bench press exercise.

[Fritz]

First of all, I just wanna say that I would not want to have both Waldo and Patler up my butt on any issue. Partial, you ain't gonna be able to get by just on "truthiness" with those two around.

Second, I agree with KY that two back surgeries and maybe a third is not a good sign for Harrell's future. That seems more than ominous to me.

Third, since Gullickson has been fired, wouldn't it be best to stop blaming Harrell for his injuries and just blame Gullickson for screwing him up in the weight room? We all, myself included, love to blame people for the happenings of the world, and since Gullickson's gone, he's an easy target. Let's throw the Rock under the bus, I say. HE screwed Harrell up, whether he did or not.

[Gunakor]

First of all, I just wanna say that I would not want to have both Waldo and Patler up my butt on any issue. Partial, you ain't gonna be able to get by just on "truthiness" with those two around.

Second, I agree with KY that two back surgeries and maybe a third is not a good sign for Harrell's future. That seems more than ominous to me.

Third, since Gullickson has been fired, wouldn't it be best to stop blaming Harrell for his injuries and just blame Gullickson for screwing him up in the weight room? We all, myself included, love to blame people for the happenings of the world, and since Gullickson's gone, he's an easy target. Let's throw the Rock under the bus, I say. HE screwed Harrell up, whether he did or not.

Watch Harrell start 16 games this year now that Rock is gone

[mission]

NOw I am unimpressed. As a 24 year old weighing 190lbs I put 225 up 23 times in the only time I ever even tried it....these guys are huge fucking pussies.

That's pretty strong bruh. I did six reps... but I was a 185 lb QB at 18.

Still, 23... nice.