Brandon Jackson

[Patler]

Even if Wynn's attitude improved, his durability remains suspect. He was cut originally because he was unavailable during the preseason. He got another chance when Lumpkin went out, but missed a couple weeks the second half of the season with another injury. If he can't stay healthy during the upcoming preseason, there will not be room for him on the roster.

[texaspackerbacker]

There's an old saying, everybody loves the second string QB. Well, around here, it seems like everybody loves the second string RB in the same way.

I have nothing against Jackson. He played very decent at times. But no way in hell he's anywhere near as good as Grant.

Man, we are finally gonna get it on here on PackerRats Tex. It is like shooting it out with Billy the kid, Davey Crockett or some other old skool legend.

The 2nd string QB never gets to touch the ball unless the starter gets busted up. RBs can be rotated out with great success. In fact seems like most teams now have a main guy and another near starter type backing him up. GB does not. Why? Well it aint Jackson's fault. He is getting better and I expect to see alot more from him in 09.

Grant, if he doesnt go and fall over a table again and hurt himself, he will just continue to run down as the game goes on. He is kinda tall but no way is he built to run down defenses into the 4th quarter. He is always on the absorbing end of hits instead of dishing it out and pummeling DBs. BJax can, Grant gets knocked on his ass.

I dont think Grants bad to have on the team but his is a change of pace back at best and not the kind that will wins games and ultimately, championships. The teams is growing up now and to make the mistake of betting all your chips on Grant would be terrible. That is a mistake TT will not make. As it is Im sure he wasnt happy on what he got for his money in 08.

So I finally get to go toe to toe with the big kahuna around here?

I wasn't aware that you felt so strongly about Jackson--or Grant, for that matter.

I've been saying for a long time that Grant could be a superstar. If we get the Grant of '07, that's a slam dunk. If we get the Grant of '08, superstar is a bit of a stretch, but he was still damn decent. As somebody said, Grant played with lingering injuries last season. Also, time after time, it seemed like he came within an eyelash of breaking big runs like in '07--stopped by the last guy. I'm expecting a big year from him in '09. As for his height, he reminds me of Eric Dickerson.

Jackson IMO is just a guy. When healthy, he was a decent blue collar back, but no way he has that unique burst like Grant. I see Jackson, Wynn, and Lumpkin as all fairly equal. I hope they find a way to keep all three, but that may not happen without one of them going on IR.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Even if Wynn's attitude improved, his durability remains suspect. He was cut originally because he was unavailable during the preseason. He got another chance when Lumpkin went out, but missed a couple weeks the second half of the season with another injury. If he can't stay healthy during the upcoming preseason, there will not be room for him on the roster.

ya, but look how much Grant and Jackson were hurt last fall. Running backs seem to be injured a lot.

[Patler]

Even if Wynn's attitude improved, his durability remains suspect. He was cut originally because he was unavailable during the preseason. He got another chance when Lumpkin went out, but missed a couple weeks the second half of the season with another injury. If he can't stay healthy during the upcoming preseason, there will not be room for him on the roster.

ya, but look how much Grant and Jackson were hurt last fall. Running backs seem to be injured a lot.

Sure they get injured, but some seem to get injuries they can play with, others do not play with the types of injuries they get. Wynn has gotten the types of injuries he couldn't play through. Grant didn't miss a game.

[cpk1994]

Even if Wynn's attitude improved, his durability remains suspect. He was cut originally because he was unavailable during the preseason. He got another chance when Lumpkin went out, but missed a couple weeks the second half of the season with another injury. If he can't stay healthy during the upcoming preseason, there will not be room for him on the roster.

ya, but look how much Grant and Jackson were hurt last fall. Running backs seem to be injured a lot.

Sure they get injured, but some seem to get injuries they can play with, others do not play with the types of injuries they get. Wynn has gotten the types of injuries he couldn't play through. Grant didn't miss a game.

But Jackson, on the other hand........

[Patler]

Even if Wynn's attitude improved, his durability remains suspect. He was cut originally because he was unavailable during the preseason. He got another chance when Lumpkin went out, but missed a couple weeks the second half of the season with another injury. If he can't stay healthy during the upcoming preseason, there will not be room for him on the roster.

ya, but look how much Grant and Jackson were hurt last fall. Running backs seem to be injured a lot.

Sure they get injured, but some seem to get injuries they can play with, others do not play with the types of injuries they get. Wynn has gotten the types of injuries he couldn't play through. Grant didn't miss a game.

But Jackson, on the other hand........

Yup, Jackson also missed three games playing in a limited role.

[ND72]

There's an old saying, everybody loves the second string QB. Well, around here, it seems like everybody loves the second string RB in the same way.

I have nothing against Jackson. He played very decent at times. But no way in hell he's anywhere near as good as Grant.

Man, we are finally gonna get it on here on PackerRats Tex. It is like shooting it out with Billy the kid, Davey Crockett or some other old skool legend.

The 2nd string QB never gets to touch the ball unless the starter gets busted up. RBs can be rotated out with great success. In fact seems like most teams now have a main guy and another near starter type backing him up. GB does not. Why? Well it aint Jackson's fault. He is getting better and I expect to see alot more from him in 09.

Grant, if he doesnt go and fall over a table again and hurt himself, he will just continue to run down as the game goes on. He is kinda tall but no way is he built to run down defenses into the 4th quarter. He is always on the absorbing end of hits instead of dishing it out and pummeling DBs. BJax can, Grant gets knocked on his ass.

I dont think Grants bad to have on the team but his is a change of pace back at best and not the kind that will wins games and ultimately, championships. The teams is growing up now and to make the mistake of betting all your chips on Grant would be terrible. That is a mistake TT will not make. As it is Im sure he wasnt happy on what he got for his money in 08.

So I finally get to go toe to toe with the big kahuna around here?

I wasn't aware that you felt so strongly about Jackson--or Grant, for that matter.

I've been saying for a long time that Grant could be a superstar. If we get the Grant of '07, that's a slam dunk. If we get the Grant of '08, superstar is a bit of a stretch, but he was still damn decent. As somebody said, Grant played with lingering injuries last season. Also, time after time, it seemed like he came within an eyelash of breaking big runs like in '07--stopped by the last guy. I'm expecting a big year from him in '09. As for his height, he reminds me of Eric Dickerson.

Jackson IMO is just a guy. When healthy, he was a decent blue collar back, but no way he has that unique burst like Grant. I see Jackson, Wynn, and Lumpkin as all fairly equal. I hope they find a way to keep all three, but that may not happen without one of them going on IR.

To me...Grant is "just a guy". And saying Jackson, Wynn, & Lumpkin as fairly equal is just not smart. Jackson will keep improving, and he showed his ability in limited action last year. Wynn is what he is. He does get the long run, but he's a get & go guy, no vision, no cut. Lumpkin I like a lot, because he's a true zone runner, like Jackson, but is very raw compared to Jackson.

I don't see Grant being any better than what we've seen of him. His injury had very little to do with many problems I saw from him this year. He has ZERO vision. Last year we saw a lot of Grant making the cut back to the weakside of the field, AKA, how a zone is to be ran. This year, he NEVER cut to that backside, except maybe a couple times. That has nothing to do with injury, that has to do with IQ.

[Bossman641]

There's an old saying, everybody loves the second string QB. Well, around here, it seems like everybody loves the second string RB in the same way.

I have nothing against Jackson. He played very decent at times. But no way in hell he's anywhere near as good as Grant.

Man, we are finally gonna get it on here on PackerRats Tex. It is like shooting it out with Billy the kid, Davey Crockett or some other old skool legend.

The 2nd string QB never gets to touch the ball unless the starter gets busted up. RBs can be rotated out with great success. In fact seems like most teams now have a main guy and another near starter type backing him up. GB does not. Why? Well it aint Jackson's fault. He is getting better and I expect to see alot more from him in 09.

Grant, if he doesnt go and fall over a table again and hurt himself, he will just continue to run down as the game goes on. He is kinda tall but no way is he built to run down defenses into the 4th quarter. He is always on the absorbing end of hits instead of dishing it out and pummeling DBs. BJax can, Grant gets knocked on his ass.

I dont think Grants bad to have on the team but his is a change of pace back at best and not the kind that will wins games and ultimately, championships. The teams is growing up now and to make the mistake of betting all your chips on Grant would be terrible. That is a mistake TT will not make. As it is Im sure he wasnt happy on what he got for his money in 08.

So I finally get to go toe to toe with the big kahuna around here?

I wasn't aware that you felt so strongly about Jackson--or Grant, for that matter.

I've been saying for a long time that Grant could be a superstar. If we get the Grant of '07, that's a slam dunk. If we get the Grant of '08, superstar is a bit of a stretch, but he was still damn decent. As somebody said, Grant played with lingering injuries last season. Also, time after time, it seemed like he came within an eyelash of breaking big runs like in '07--stopped by the last guy. I'm expecting a big year from him in '09. As for his height, he reminds me of Eric Dickerson.

Jackson IMO is just a guy. When healthy, he was a decent blue collar back, but no way he has that unique burst like Grant. I see Jackson, Wynn, and Lumpkin as all fairly equal. I hope they find a way to keep all three, but that may not happen without one of them going on IR.

To me...Grant is "just a guy". And saying Jackson, Wynn, & Lumpkin as fairly equal is just not smart. Jackson will keep improving, and he showed his ability in limited action last year. Wynn is what he is. He does get the long run, but he's a get & go guy, no vision, no cut. Lumpkin I like a lot, because he's a true zone runner, like Jackson, but is very raw compared to Jackson.

I don't see Grant being any better than what we've seen of him. His injury had very little to do with many problems I saw from him this year. He has ZERO vision. Last year we saw a lot of Grant making the cut back to the weakside of the field, AKA, how a zone is to be ran. This year, he NEVER cut to that backside, except maybe a couple times. That has nothing to do with injury, that has to do with IQ.

I'm not disagreeing with you, because I feel the same exact way about Grant, but what happened to him then?? In 2007 there were numerous times where Grant cut back against the grain and got a big run out of it. In 2008, there was virtually none. Did he lose his vision? Did he not have confidence in what he was seeing?

[Waldo]

It was his sync with the line, he was overrunning his blocking ("patience"), something that B Jax struggled with early on as a rookie. Unless it is a zone run right up the gut, the back drifts outside as the blocking develops, then slices through the line once he sees a lane. By overrunning the blocking, he drafts too far outside before the lanes open up, won't see them, and is poorly positioned to cut once they do open, taking him close to the end that the T is having a hard time stretching out (both Clifton and Tausher were had big trouble with it all year, which is why we ran so much better with Colledge at T, he could push the ends outside and keep the POA open).

With the T's struggling to push the ends wide, teams were gambling by sending the MLB on run blitzes through the strong A gap, effectively shutting down any cutback. Without push from the tackles, when the FB aims for the playside OLB he ends up getting bottled up at the POA because the T fails to get the push to open up the playside B gap for the FB.

Tausher was getting more push than Clifton (who was downright pitiful all year), but still not very good; most teams use an opposite interior DT alignment than the Packers, with the NT between Colledge and Wells and the UT over Spitz, even when Tausher got good push and the the FB could get through, the DT was making the play at the line, getting past Spitz.

Jackson got a lot of his yards on the outside backside of plays, especially when the offensive right was the play side. The ends would abuse Clifton and take themselves out of the outside contain necessary to stop Jacksons quick cut just outside of them. Grant doesn't have the short area agility and quickness to do that.

The bread and butter ZBS run, the outside zone, just wasn't working last year and probably won't until we replace the T's, especially Clifton. It was somewhat of a travesty that our best run blocker lines up right next to our worst, Colledge would be blowing guys up, only to have Clifton screw it up and let the end make the play to the inside. Sitton is gonna be a good one though, that kid can dominate at the POA and be even better than Colledge is now. He was beaten in the passing game by stunts and whatnot (somewhat expected since he was a small school rookie), but he is already a far better run blocker than Spitz and rarely got beat by straight ahead pass blocking.

It is no coincidence that the:
Clifton-Colledge-Spitz-Moll-Tausher line could only pull off 100 yds on the ground week 2 vs the Lions, but the:
Clifton-Barbre-Spitz-Sitton-Colledge line was able to roll up 212 week 17.
MM erred on the side of pass blocking caution at the expense of fielding the best alignment to run the ball all season, once our best run blocking alignment was out there (with last years guys that was the week 17 alignment, the only time it was used) they were able to slice through the defense with ease on the ground.

A Spitz-Sitton-Colledge side of the line is dominant to run behind, not all that far off from McKinney-Hutchinson-Birk.

On the subjects of the backs, IMO Grant is a decent runner that has a really screwed up style, Jackson is a natural that has superstar potential, that was raw as could be when we drafted him. I think that he displaces Grant as the starter in camp.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't see as a great zone runner. He still dances too much. He's not one cut and go guy.

[Bossman641]

I don't see as a great zone runner. He still dances too much. He's not one cut and go guy.

Yep, Jackson is still indecisive in his reads. The difference I saw between him and Grant in 2008 though was that when Jackson did make the correct read he hit the hole hard and also had the burst to get through it that Grant was lacking.

[rbaloha1]

I don't see as a great zone runner. He still dances too much. He's not one cut and go guy.

B. Jackson was drafted since Nebraska ran a zone blocking scheme in Bill Callahan's wco.

Agreed in his rookie year, Jackson danced too much. However, imo Jackson was more decisive since he understood the offense better and noticed the cutback lanes better.

While Jackson may not have Grant's vision or cutback ability Jackson is still an effective change of pace back and worthy of increased carries and screen plays.

[HarveyWallbangers]

B. Jackson was drafted since Nebraska ran a zone blocking scheme in Bill Callahan's wco.

Which is part of the reason I liked him.

Agreed in his rookie year, Jackson danced too much. However, imo Jackson was more decisive since he understood the offense better and noticed the cutback lanes better.

I agree, but I still wouldn't say he's a good zone runner. Many of his good runs last year were just the result of him breaking tackles--not that he saw a hole, took one cut, and hit it hard.

While Jackson may not have Grant's vision or cutback ability Jackson is still an effective change of pace back and worthy of increased carries and screen plays.

Agreed. I'm okay with Grant and Jackson as our RBs. I'm hoping Lumpkin can stay healthy. I was much more impressed with him in limited opportunities than Wynn. Then again, I think his injury list is about as long as Wynn's.

[sharpe1027]

On the subjects of the backs, IMO Grant is a decent runner that has a really screwed up style, Jackson is a natural that has superstar potential, that was raw as could be when we drafted him. I think that he displaces Grant as the starter in camp.

I agree about the line, I think that Barbre and Sitton (or possibly a new guy) are going to make a big difference this year.

I do not agree about Jackson. I have yet to see Jackson implement solid cut-backs. Grant did it consistently two years ago and while it happened less last year (arguably because it was not there due to blocking) he still set up his runs for it. Jackson's big runs were a result of A) pulling a houdini on a tackler, or B) out running someone on the edge. Both are admirable traits, but I don't see him as having superstar potential without setting up his runs better. Is that something he can learn? Maybe...or maybe not.

[Fritz]

It was his sync with the line, he was overrunning his blocking ("patience"), something that B Jax struggled with early on as a rookie. Unless it is a zone run right up the gut, the back drifts outside as the blocking develops, then slices through the line once he sees a lane. By overrunning the blocking, he drafts too far outside before the lanes open up, won't see them, and is poorly positioned to cut once they do open, taking him close to the end that the T is having a hard time stretching out (both Clifton and Tausher were had big trouble with it all year, which is why we ran so much better with Colledge at T, he could push the ends outside and keep the POA open).

With the T's struggling to push the ends wide, teams were gambling by sending the MLB on run blitzes through the strong A gap, effectively shutting down any cutback. Without push from the tackles, when the FB aims for the playside OLB he ends up getting bottled up at the POA because the T fails to get the push to open up the playside B gap for the FB.

Tausher was getting more push than Clifton (who was downright pitiful all year), but still not very good; most teams use an opposite interior DT alignment than the Packers, with the NT between Colledge and Wells and the UT over Spitz, even when Tausher got good push and the the FB could get through, the DT was making the play at the line, getting past Spitz.

Jackson got a lot of his yards on the outside backside of plays, especially when the offensive right was the play side. The ends would abuse Clifton and take themselves out of the outside contain necessary to stop Jacksons quick cut just outside of them. Grant doesn't have the short area agility and quickness to do that.

The bread and butter ZBS run, the outside zone, just wasn't working last year and probably won't until we replace the T's, especially Clifton. It was somewhat of a travesty that our best run blocker lines up right next to our worst, Colledge would be blowing guys up, only to have Clifton screw it up and let the end make the play to the inside. Sitton is gonna be a good one though, that kid can dominate at the POA and be even better than Colledge is now. He was beaten in the passing game by stunts and whatnot (somewhat expected since he was a small school rookie), but he is already a far better run blocker than Spitz and rarely got beat by straight ahead pass blocking.

It is no coincidence that the:
Clifton-Colledge-Spitz-Moll-Tausher line could only pull off 100 yds on the ground week 2 vs the Lions, but the:
Clifton-Barbre-Spitz-Sitton-Colledge line was able to roll up 212 week 17.
MM erred on the side of pass blocking caution at the expense of fielding the best alignment to run the ball all season, once our best run blocking alignment was out there (with last years guys that was the week 17 alignment, the only time it was used) they were able to slice through the defense with ease on the ground.

A Spitz-Sitton-Colledge side of the line is dominant to run behind, not all that far off from McKinney-Hutchinson-Birk.

On the subjects of the backs, IMO Grant is a decent runner that has a really screwed up style, Jackson is a natural that has superstar potential, that was raw as could be when we drafted him. I think that he displaces Grant as the starter in camp.

A most awesome breakdown of the whole situation. I learned a lot - this is the kind of stuff I love to read on Packerrats. I say that we petition the offices at Lombardi Ave. to hire both Waldo and Patler in some capacity.

Waldo, are you suggesting moving Colledge to right tackle, then?

Waldo