Al Harris / Bigby / Driver - Updates

[Fritz]

Crazy how widely different views are on Bigby. Some people saw him making plays. Some people saw him benefiting from one of the best corner tandems in the league. Some people saw him blowing people up while others saw him running in the wrong direction. Some people saw him as intimidating while others saw TEs and RBs running past him like he was a fence post.

Maybe I have to admit that he can be as good as he can be bad, but I'm still not convinced that's worth the trade-off from a more consistent player. He apparently will be given every chance to have a good year if they plan on using him in a role where his weaknesses are limited, and for the team's sake, I hope he succeeds. I just don't think it'll happen if he's in the game on passing downs. I think it's more likely Rouse pulls his head out his ass and starts learning how to play the position. Sure, he doesn't have the hair or the kooky name, but I think he has a much better chance to be another Darren Sharper (not that that's such a great thing) than Bigby ever does considering the limitations the latter has demonstrated on-field.

The other half of the equation for me is I would be much more tolerant of having a guy like Bigby out there if we didn't have a guy with matching limitations in Poppinga on the field at the same time.

Well, the Poppy train is one that I have jumped off of. I liked the guy for a couple years, but this year he had every opportunity to step up and shine, but no matter what Winston Moss says, I just don't think Popps did the job. For a guy whose calling card is run stuffing, he seemed to me to whiff on an awful lot of tackles, some of which were game-changers (Minnesota). And sespite his supposed improved coverage skills, it didn't seem to play out on the field.

He has become...just a guy. The kind of guy who could start for the Lions, like Paris Lenon did.

[Partial]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

In 2007, the year Sanders won DPOTY, Bigby had 3 more interceptions, 3 more passes deflections, and only ten less tackles. He did have 2.5 less sacks, but the Packers never brought Bigby on the blitz.

With that said, the stats show that Bigby was in coverage more imo, which is not the strong suit for either guy.

So what is the difference? Indy utilizes players in a way to minimize liability and maximize potential. Vanilla Bob never blitzed with Bigby or put him in a shot to shine.

I look for big things out of him in the 3-4 if he's A) healthy, and B) used in the box and off the edge with some blitzes. I'm ready to see him hurdle another running back.

[Waldo]

In '07 Bigby had a ridiculous ability to always be on screen. His nose for the ball is exceptional. He never had spells of being lost, like Collins did, where you wouldn't hear from him for a quarter or two. Bigby was around on virtually every play. Didn't always make the play and made mistakes, but play awareness is a very valuable trait and he has a lot of it. His hitting is cool and all, his athletic ability is mediocre (for the position), his technique is so-so at best, but his play recognition is exceptional.

[KYPack]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

Bigby cannot cover as well as Bob Sanders. He has decent blitz skills, but Bob is one of the league's top blitzers and 8 in the box man.

Sanders IS a gear faster than Bigby. Bigby did a 4.65 40 coming out of college. Bigby's instincts and game sense are top notch. But you essentially have a slow guy with leg and ankle miseries. He has to make a miraculous comeback physically to help us next season. He might do it, & I hope he does.

[Bossman641]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

In 2007, the year Sanders won DPOTY, Bigby had 3 more interceptions, 3 more passes deflections, and only ten less tackles. He did have 2.5 less sacks, but the Packers never brought Bigby on the blitz.

With that said, the stats show that Bigby was in coverage more imo, which is not the strong suit for either guy.

So what is the difference? Indy utilizes players in a way to minimize liability and maximize potential. Vanilla Bob never blitzed with Bigby or put him in a shot to shine.

I look for big things out of him in the 3-4 if he's A) healthy, and B) used in the box and off the edge with some blitzes. I'm ready to see him hurdle another running back.

Bob Sanders is 10x the player Bigby is. Besides, why are you using stats to try and prove your case? Isn't that against your whole style of analysis? Sanders has "it", Bigby doesn't.

Sanders is one of the 3-4 very good safeties in the league. Bigby is "average", along with 24 other safeties in the league.

[Gunakor]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

Bigby cannot cover as well as Bob Sanders. He has decent blitz skills, but Bob is one of the league's top blitzers and 8 in the box man.

Sanders IS a gear faster than Bigby. Bigby did a 4.65 40 coming out of college. Bigby's instincts and game sense are top notch. But you essentially have a slow guy with leg and ankle miseries. He has to make a miraculous comeback physically to help us next season. He might do it, & I hope he does.

So the question arises, who should we be targeting that would be better? Certainly Rouse isn't going to play that 8th man in the box as well as Bigby could. I don't see Woodson playing SS much (if at all) in this new scheme, because Chuck's strength is in pass coverage whereas the SS will apparently be used more often than not in run support. So I can pretty much guarantee that we don't have anybody better than Bigby currently on the roster. Where do we look for an upgrade, and how much money/how high a draft pick would you justify using to make that upgrade?

[HarveyWallbangers]

There are some safeties out there. Guys that I think would be upgrades: Gibril Wilson (already signed with Miami) and Sean Jones. Jermaine Phillips has been solid, but I'm not sure how he fits our new scheme. James Sanders might be a young guy to take a chance on. Stopgap, but a good one = Brian Dawkins. He probably has 1 or 2 years left. If they don't think Bigby (or Rouse) is the long-term answer, then getting a stopgap until they can find the answer might not be a bad idea. I'm okay with them passing on Dawkins though. I'd like to see them take a chance on Jones or Sanders. Both have 3-4 experience also.

[Partial]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

In 2007, the year Sanders won DPOTY, Bigby had 3 more interceptions, 3 more passes deflections, and only ten less tackles. He did have 2.5 less sacks, but the Packers never brought Bigby on the blitz.

With that said, the stats show that Bigby was in coverage more imo, which is not the strong suit for either guy.

So what is the difference? Indy utilizes players in a way to minimize liability and maximize potential. Vanilla Bob never blitzed with Bigby or put him in a shot to shine.

I look for big things out of him in the 3-4 if he's A) healthy, and B) used in the box and off the edge with some blitzes. I'm ready to see him hurdle another running back.

Bob Sanders is 10x the player Bigby is. Besides, why are you using stats to try and prove your case? Isn't that against your whole style of analysis? Sanders has "it", Bigby doesn't.

Sanders is one of the 3-4 very good safeties in the league. Bigby is "average", along with 24 other safeties in the league.

Well, I disagree. My eyes do not agree with that assessment at all. How can someone be 10x the player when he himself is RARELY healthy and playing? If you haven't noticed Sanders is a walking injury.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree.

For what its worth, Polamalu's 40 time is 4.54, about .1 faster than Bigby.

On a disgustingly fast note, Neon Deion has been timed running a 4.6 backpedaling. That is out of this world.

[3irty1]

There are some safeties out there. Guys that I think would be upgrades: Gibril Wilson (already signed with Miami) and Sean Jones. Jermaine Phillips has been solid, but I'm not sure how he fits our new scheme. James Sanders might be a young guy to take a chance on. Stopgap, but a good one = Brian Dawkins. He probably has 1 or 2 years left. If they don't think Bigby (or Rouse) is the long-term answer, then getting a stopgap until they can find the answer might not be a bad idea. I'm okay with them passing on Dawkins though. I'd like to see them take a chance on Jones or Sanders. Both have 3-4 experience also.

Bedard mentioned CC Brown from the Texans as a possible fit for the Pack. He was drafted during Capers time with the Texans.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah, I forgot about Brown. He wasn't on a list of top 10 safeties available, but I think he's probably better than 1/2 the guys on the list, and he has experience with Capers.

[Patler]

If they don't think Bigby (or Rouse) is the long-term answer, then getting a stopgap until they can find the answer might not be a bad idea. I'm okay with them passing on Dawkins though. I'd like to see them take a chance on Jones or Sanders. Both have 3-4 experience also.

One of the things I look forward to is seeing how Rouse fits into the new defense. The kid is as big as our linebackers, but so far it has been a bit difficult getting a feel for what he really can do.

[Fritz]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

Bigby cannot cover as well as Bob Sanders. He has decent blitz skills, but Bob is one of the league's top blitzers and 8 in the box man.

Sanders IS a gear faster than Bigby. Bigby did a 4.65 40 coming out of college. Bigby's instincts and game sense are top notch. But you essentially have a slow guy with leg and ankle miseries. He has to make a miraculous comeback physically to help us next season. He might do it, & I hope he does.

If Bob Sanders is that good, why'd the Packers let him go?

[Gunakor]

There are some safeties out there. Guys that I think would be upgrades: Gibril Wilson (already signed with Miami) and Sean Jones. Jermaine Phillips has been solid, but I'm not sure how he fits our new scheme. James Sanders might be a young guy to take a chance on. Stopgap, but a good one = Brian Dawkins. He probably has 1 or 2 years left. If they don't think Bigby (or Rouse) is the long-term answer, then getting a stopgap until they can find the answer might not be a bad idea. I'm okay with them passing on Dawkins though. I'd like to see them take a chance on Jones or Sanders. Both have 3-4 experience also.

Bedard mentioned CC Brown from the Texans as a possible fit for the Pack. He was drafted during Capers time with the Texans.

But is he better than Bigby? I mean, apparently the Packers think enough of him to offer the second round tender to retain him. Certainly they must think Bigby is better than most of the FA's out there too, or you'd think they'd offer a lower tender to Bigby and look at a more expensive pickup in FA. I don't know, I just don't think Bigby is a bad fit for this defense at all. I'd look for a backup in or after the 4th round of the draft, because I think Rouse is a bad fit for this defense, but I think Bigby will be even better in 2009 playing up than he was in 2007 playing deep. He'll be fine.

[wist43]

If they don't think Bigby (or Rouse) is the long-term answer, then getting a stopgap until they can find the answer might not be a bad idea. I'm okay with them passing on Dawkins though. I'd like to see them take a chance on Jones or Sanders. Both have 3-4 experience also.

One of the things I look forward to is seeing how Rouse fits into the new defense. The kid is as big as our linebackers, but so far it has been a bit difficult getting a feel for what he really can do.

I agree... Rouse has some intiguing measurables, but was wasted on that POS scheme the Packers were running. Maybe he's a player, maybe not, but I'd like to see them use him to his strengths, instead of asking him to be a glorified corner.

[HarveyWallbangers]

But is he better than Bigby? I mean, apparently the Packers think enough of him to offer the second round tender to retain him. Certainly they must think Bigby is better than most of the FA's out there too, or you'd think they'd offer a lower tender to Bigby and look at a more expensive pickup in FA.

Not really. The difference between tenders is only like $500,000, and $1.5M isn't that much for even a backup, third safety with some experience--especially since they haven't actually signed a replacement yet.