Al Harris / Bigby / Driver - Updates

[Gunakor]

But is he better than Bigby? I mean, apparently the Packers think enough of him to offer the second round tender to retain him. Certainly they must think Bigby is better than most of the FA's out there too, or you'd think they'd offer a lower tender to Bigby and look at a more expensive pickup in FA.

Not really. The difference between tenders is only like $500,000, and $1.5M isn't that much for even a backup, third safety with some experience--especially since they haven't actually signed a replacement yet.

Good point. I guess I just think Bigby is alot better than people give him credit for. I think there are a lot of guys out there who would be different than Bigby, but not necessarily an upgrade - which Patler alluded to in one of these threads (I forget which one). If I'm going to make a change, it has to be for a guy who I know is better than the guy he's replacing. And Bigby isn't all that bad, so...

Sean Jones would be one I would be for, if it were to happen. Jim Leonhard is another, again, if it were to happen. CC Brown I'm skeptical of, but I might be willing to see if it works out. But there aren't many others, because Bigby is a pretty good football player IMO.

[Patler]

But is he better than Bigby? I mean, apparently the Packers think enough of him to offer the second round tender to retain him. Certainly they must think Bigby is better than most of the FA's out there too, or you'd think they'd offer a lower tender to Bigby and look at a more expensive pickup in FA.

It doesn't mean they think he is better than what else is available, it just means he is one of their better options right now. If they can acquire a better safety they can trade or release Bigby, in which case he will have cost nothing. The higher tender keeps him as an option for them. For the lower tender they may have lost him as an option, forcing their hand in acquiring someone else. If they get someone else, Bigby would have trade value, if they like Rouse as a #3 safety or draft someone.

[sharpe1027]

Sharper showed some great ball skills even early on in his career; Nick Collins has shown me from early on he can get a great jump on the ball.
I've always liked Sharper and feel like he's a better player than most in here think. He had one terrible year tackling (I think it was year two) when he took some terrible angles........but after that year IMO he was average at tackling and a good safety when healthy. Collins, I think he's always had the skills; he just needed to be more sure handed

I've always felt the upside for Bigby is very limited; he still reminds me of Chuck Cecil. I don't see the natural instincts in coverage or on the ball. He's serviceable but a guy that a good offensive coordinator can find ways to expose. I would not want to count on him covering a guy in the clutch. Great hitter but doesn't seem to get nearly the jump that Collins gets or doesn't have the nack for the ball that Sharper has.

I doubt he's a guy that is the long term answer; I'm happy to be wrong though

IMO, Collins couldn't make a play on the ball to save his life until last year. He was able to get to the proper location, but was terrible at locating the ball and breaking up passes. Last year the "light went on".

[Bossman641]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

In 2007, the year Sanders won DPOTY, Bigby had 3 more interceptions, 3 more passes deflections, and only ten less tackles. He did have 2.5 less sacks, but the Packers never brought Bigby on the blitz.

With that said, the stats show that Bigby was in coverage more imo, which is not the strong suit for either guy.

So what is the difference? Indy utilizes players in a way to minimize liability and maximize potential. Vanilla Bob never blitzed with Bigby or put him in a shot to shine.

I look for big things out of him in the 3-4 if he's A) healthy, and B) used in the box and off the edge with some blitzes. I'm ready to see him hurdle another running back.

Bob Sanders is 10x the player Bigby is. Besides, why are you using stats to try and prove your case? Isn't that against your whole style of analysis? Sanders has "it", Bigby doesn't.

Sanders is one of the 3-4 very good safeties in the league. Bigby is "average", along with 24 other safeties in the league.

Well, I disagree. My eyes do not agree with that assessment at all. How can someone be 10x the player when he himself is RARELY healthy and playing? If you haven't noticed Sanders is a walking injury.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree.

For what its worth, Polamalu's 40 time is 4.54, about .1 faster than Bigby.

On a disgustingly fast note, Neon Deion has been timed running a 4.6 backpedaling. That is out of this world.

You're getting confused again. You confuse performance with reliability and the ability to stay healthy.

Sanders is injury-prone, yes, because he throws his body around like a madman. He's 5'8" 206 but plays like he is 6'2" 235. When he is healthy he is ridiculously good at filling holes. Sanders is a difference-maker, Bigby not so much.

[Gunakor]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

In 2007, the year Sanders won DPOTY, Bigby had 3 more interceptions, 3 more passes deflections, and only ten less tackles. He did have 2.5 less sacks, but the Packers never brought Bigby on the blitz.

With that said, the stats show that Bigby was in coverage more imo, which is not the strong suit for either guy.

So what is the difference? Indy utilizes players in a way to minimize liability and maximize potential. Vanilla Bob never blitzed with Bigby or put him in a shot to shine.

I look for big things out of him in the 3-4 if he's A) healthy, and B) used in the box and off the edge with some blitzes. I'm ready to see him hurdle another running back.

Bob Sanders is 10x the player Bigby is. Besides, why are you using stats to try and prove your case? Isn't that against your whole style of analysis? Sanders has "it", Bigby doesn't.

Sanders is one of the 3-4 very good safeties in the league. Bigby is "average", along with 24 other safeties in the league.

Well, I disagree. My eyes do not agree with that assessment at all. How can someone be 10x the player when he himself is RARELY healthy and playing? If you haven't noticed Sanders is a walking injury.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree.

For what its worth, Polamalu's 40 time is 4.54, about .1 faster than Bigby.

On a disgustingly fast note, Neon Deion has been timed running a 4.6 backpedaling. That is out of this world.

You're getting confused again. You confuse performance with reliability and the ability to stay healthy.

Sanders is injury-prone, yes, because he throws his body around like a madman. He's 5'8" 206 but plays like he is 6'2" 235. When he is healthy he is ridiculously good at filling holes. Sanders is a difference-maker, Bigby not so much.

Bigby was miscast in Sanders vanilla defense. Bigby is not a cover 2 safety, although he didn't appear horrible at it either. Bigby will be much better playing up in the box than he was playing cover 2. He's a hitter. He'll provide a huge boost to our run defense, and will occasionally pressure the QB on passing downs. We did neither effectively last season. That alone qualifies him as a difference maker IMO.

[SkinBasket]

I still say you people are completely overestimating Bigby's "hitting" based on less than a handful of plays he's made over the years. And remember, you gotta catch a guy to hit him. If Bigby's playing closer to the line this year, guys aren't going to be in front of him anymore and he sure as shit ain't going to make it across the field to run down a play. Lack of speed and bad angles have demonstrated that much. Maybe he can swat down another couple interceptions out of Al's hands this season though. Wonder if those get recorded as passes defensed.

[Partial]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

In 2007, the year Sanders won DPOTY, Bigby had 3 more interceptions, 3 more passes deflections, and only ten less tackles. He did have 2.5 less sacks, but the Packers never brought Bigby on the blitz.

With that said, the stats show that Bigby was in coverage more imo, which is not the strong suit for either guy.

So what is the difference? Indy utilizes players in a way to minimize liability and maximize potential. Vanilla Bob never blitzed with Bigby or put him in a shot to shine.

I look for big things out of him in the 3-4 if he's A) healthy, and B) used in the box and off the edge with some blitzes. I'm ready to see him hurdle another running back.

Bob Sanders is 10x the player Bigby is. Besides, why are you using stats to try and prove your case? Isn't that against your whole style of analysis? Sanders has "it", Bigby doesn't.

Sanders is one of the 3-4 very good safeties in the league. Bigby is "average", along with 24 other safeties in the league.

Well, I disagree. My eyes do not agree with that assessment at all. How can someone be 10x the player when he himself is RARELY healthy and playing? If you haven't noticed Sanders is a walking injury.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree.

For what its worth, Polamalu's 40 time is 4.54, about .1 faster than Bigby.

On a disgustingly fast note, Neon Deion has been timed running a 4.6 backpedaling. That is out of this world.

You're getting confused again. You confuse performance with reliability and the ability to stay healthy.

Sanders is injury-prone, yes, because he throws his body around like a madman. He's 5'8" 206 but plays like he is 6'2" 235. When he is healthy he is ridiculously good at filling holes. Sanders is a difference-maker, Bigby not so much.

Talent is worthless if you cannot display it. See Cullen Jenkins. One of the top 10 ends physically imo, but since he is healthy about 5% of the time at best, he's pretty much useless.

You're not a difference maker on the bench, is my point.

[SkinBasket]

Talent is worthless if you cannot display it. See Cullen Jenkins. One of the top 10 ends physically imo, but since he is healthy about 5% of the time at best, he's pretty much useless.

You're not a difference maker on the bench, is my point.

Vince Young.

[Bossman641]

Talent is worthless if you cannot display it. See Cullen Jenkins. One of the top 10 ends physically imo, but since he is healthy about 5% of the time at best, he's pretty much useless.

You're not a difference maker on the bench, is my point.

Vince Young.

LOL, walked right into that one.

[Partial]

touche.

[Guiness]

Talent is worthless if you cannot display it. See Cullen Jenkins. One of the top 10 ends physically imo, but since he is healthy about 5% of the time at best, he's pretty much useless.

You're not a difference maker on the bench, is my point.

Jesus Partial, you just said in the thread about Canty http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/vi...16903&start=40
that the results when Jenkins has been on the field have been less than stellar. Now he's a top 10 end?

[SnakeLH2006]

To me, I see Bigby as a pretty good player when healthy. His problem is he can't stay healthy.

He's got the speed of Bob Sanders. The coverage liability of Bob Sanders. The big hits of Bob Sanders. Better blitzing than Bob Sanders. Better size than Bob Sanders. The equally poor ability to stay healthy of Bob Sanders.

update: Looked up Sanders combine number of 4.35 for a 40. I'm pretty skeptical of that because he does not look very fast on the field. Certainly not a whole gear faster than Bigby imo.

In 2007, the year Sanders won DPOTY, Bigby had 3 more interceptions, 3 more passes deflections, and only ten less tackles. He did have 2.5 less sacks, but the Packers never brought Bigby on the blitz.

With that said, the stats show that Bigby was in coverage more imo, which is not the strong suit for either guy.

So what is the difference? Indy utilizes players in a way to minimize liability and maximize potential. Vanilla Bob never blitzed with Bigby or put him in a shot to shine.

I look for big things out of him in the 3-4 if he's A) healthy, and B) used in the box and off the edge with some blitzes. I'm ready to see him hurdle another running back.

Bob Sanders is 10x the player Bigby is. Besides, why are you using stats to try and prove your case? Isn't that against your whole style of analysis? Sanders has "it", Bigby doesn't.

Sanders is one of the 3-4 very good safeties in the league. Bigby is "average", along with 24 other safeties in the league.

OMG! Snake hates this:



..But I'm bound to lose beer out my nose laughing when I seem to be the only one to sense the true irony Bossman put forth here. Great stuff for sure bro! Can't get over that comment!! I wish Arod wasn't as average.

[mraynrand]

[packerbacker1234]

Guys, Bigby last year was one of the hardest hitters on our team when he was healthy. He forced a lot of fumbles, and has ok hands too and decent instincts. Plus: He's still young, and finally has a good defensive coaching staff around him.

If he can come back 100% healthy, Bigby could be a big reason this defense plays better. But for god's sake, we need some DL depth.