36 Mil to Spend: TT is going to stay skimpy on spending...

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

On the bright side, Jennings, Collins, Kamp, Splitz, Colledge, Blackman, Williams, etc., etc. will all be on the team for years to come.

[Waldo]

Thats the thing, we were going to get rid of somebody if Canty was signed, and most of the team is worth their paycheck right now. I think that there is a 7M window that can be stretched to '11, but signing Canty meant somebody was walking in '11, my guess is it is in the position group/area (defensive front 7). Jolly would be 100% guaranteed walking. Harrell would have to beat out Jenkins, if he ever recovers, Chillar is probably the most likely one to walk, possibly Chillar and Poppinga if they want to keep Hawk.

The contract that Igor would get is very different. Chillar is still a casualty IMO, but Jolly could be resigned if he shows something, and Harrell has a chance to start if he gives the coaches a reason to start him.

I hope Bigby signs his tender soon, I doubt that they are going to pursue a SS in FA unless Bigby first signs his tender. Not much point in signing a SS if it means he's going to force our starting SS to hold out for a long term contract, which is what will happen.

[packerbacker1234]

Re: 36 Mil to Spend: TT is going to stay skimpy on spending.

Like he has done every year since being here. With the salary cap era coming to what appears to be an end in the near future, with the shared revenue the nfl puts otu there to pay for salaries and all that jazz, TT yet again is choosing to just not spend money.

*sigh*

I am not saying be the jets last year. I am not saying turn into the redskins every year.

What I am saying is show some damn commitment to wining a Super Bowl. The only reason we even were close 2 years ago was because #4 came through in tight game after tight game. The defense wasn't very good that year save our two CB's, and yeah ryan grant was a surprise only after we had been an all passing team half the season.

Lets face it: TT has not shown one ounce of commitment to winning a super bowl, just commitment to making us a division competitior every year. I don't want to just dance around wining the division: I want another super bowl.

And, TT just doesn't look like he's comitted to get there. We have a young improving team. Great. AR got a golden boy contract after a few games.

Where is Jennings big deal? Why is our OL still a mess years after TT took over.

*sigh* It would just be nice for our GM to actually show in action that he actually wants to win a super bowl. This rebuilding crap has gotta just be thrown out the window. The great franchises out there just don't "rebuild". They have down periods, but they are still trying to get that ring.

You do know that Jennings' agent has to agree before they can sign him, don't you? You also realize they don't need to rush to do Jennings deal, don't you?
Bottom line, saying TT isn't committed is falt out BS. This is the same tired shit, different year.

He sure as hell rushed AR into a contract after a few games. Jennings is more proven, having big years with two different QB's, proving that he is the real deal.

This thread isn't cause we didn't get canty. It's because of other players he didn't appear to consider.

Look at Bart Scott. I believe we run a 3-4 no? Why didn't we get in the running for him with the jets? Of the three people listed that he picked up, only Woodson has been consistent. TT wants to win of course, but does he want to win a super bowl? I never vlaim him for not jumping all over the big names, but there is usually some clear palyers to be had out there every year that would improve glaring needs and he ignores them.

OL, DL, are good examples. Canty may not be worth it, but I'de rather get him then keep Justin Harrell around.

[Waldo]

Re: 36 Mil to Spend: TT is going to stay skimpy on spending.

Like he has done every year since being here. With the salary cap era coming to what appears to be an end in the near future, with the shared revenue the nfl puts otu there to pay for salaries and all that jazz, TT yet again is choosing to just not spend money.

*sigh*

I am not saying be the jets last year. I am not saying turn into the redskins every year.

What I am saying is show some damn commitment to wining a Super Bowl. The only reason we even were close 2 years ago was because #4 came through in tight game after tight game. The defense wasn't very good that year save our two CB's, and yeah ryan grant was a surprise only after we had been an all passing team half the season.

Lets face it: TT has not shown one ounce of commitment to winning a super bowl, just commitment to making us a division competitior every year. I don't want to just dance around wining the division: I want another super bowl.

And, TT just doesn't look like he's comitted to get there. We have a young improving team. Great. AR got a golden boy contract after a few games.

Where is Jennings big deal? Why is our OL still a mess years after TT took over.

*sigh* It would just be nice for our GM to actually show in action that he actually wants to win a super bowl. This rebuilding crap has gotta just be thrown out the window. The great franchises out there just don't "rebuild". They have down periods, but they are still trying to get that ring.

You do know that Jennings' agent has to agree before they can sign him, don't you? You also realize they don't need to rush to do Jennings deal, don't you?
Bottom line, saying TT isn't committed is falt out BS. This is the same tired shit, different year.

He sure as hell rushed AR into a contract after a few games. Jennings is more proven, having big years with two different QB's, proving that he is the real deal.

This thread isn't cause we didn't get canty. It's because of other players he didn't appear to consider.

Look at Bart Scott. I believe we run a 3-4 no? Why didn't we get in the running for him with the jets? Of the three people listed that he picked up, only Woodson has been consistent. TT wants to win of course, but does he want to win a super bowl? I never vlaim him for not jumping all over the big names, but there is usually some clear palyers to be had out there every year that would improve glaring needs and he ignores them.

OL, DL, are good examples. Canty may not be worth it, but I'de rather get him then keep Justin Harrell around.

I believe Bart got 9M/yr. That would means we're paying Barnett 5.5M, Hawk 6.5M, and Chillar 3M, between the 2 ILB positions we'd dedicate 23M in cap, 1/11th of the starting lineup getting near 1/5th of the total cap. That is bad business. Our DL is underpaid, but our LB corps, especially the ILB's, are already overpayed in a 3-4 allocation model.

[cpk1994]

Re: 36 Mil to Spend: TT is going to stay skimpy on spending.

Like he has done every year since being here. With the salary cap era coming to what appears to be an end in the near future, with the shared revenue the nfl puts otu there to pay for salaries and all that jazz, TT yet again is choosing to just not spend money.

*sigh*

I am not saying be the jets last year. I am not saying turn into the redskins every year.

What I am saying is show some damn commitment to wining a Super Bowl. The only reason we even were close 2 years ago was because #4 came through in tight game after tight game. The defense wasn't very good that year save our two CB's, and yeah ryan grant was a surprise only after we had been an all passing team half the season.

Lets face it: TT has not shown one ounce of commitment to winning a super bowl, just commitment to making us a division competitior every year. I don't want to just dance around wining the division: I want another super bowl.

And, TT just doesn't look like he's comitted to get there. We have a young improving team. Great. AR got a golden boy contract after a few games.

Where is Jennings big deal? Why is our OL still a mess years after TT took over.

*sigh* It would just be nice for our GM to actually show in action that he actually wants to win a super bowl. This rebuilding crap has gotta just be thrown out the window. The great franchises out there just don't "rebuild". They have down periods, but they are still trying to get that ring.

You do know that Jennings' agent has to agree before they can sign him, don't you? You also realize they don't need to rush to do Jennings deal, don't you?
Bottom line, saying TT isn't committed is falt out BS. This is the same tired shit, different year.

He sure as hell rushed AR into a contract after a few games. Jennings is more proven, having big years with two different QB's, proving that he is the real deal.

This thread isn't cause we didn't get canty. It's because of other players he didn't appear to consider.

Look at Bart Scott. I believe we run a 3-4 no? Why didn't we get in the running for him with the jets? Of the three people listed that he picked up, only Woodson has been consistent. TT wants to win of course, but does he want to win a super bowl? I never vlaim him for not jumping all over the big names, but there is usually some clear palyers to be had out there every year that would improve glaring needs and he ignores them.

OL, DL, are good examples. Canty may not be worth it, but I'de rather get him then keep Justin Harrell around.

Gee I think the Favre situation may have had something to do with that. Also, ARod's agent may have had something to do with that as well. Finally, just becuae the press isn't reporting anything doesn't mean that TT is doing nothing in that instance.

Since you know how great these players can help, I expect that you will be fielding offers to become a GM.

[packerbacker1234]

Re: 36 Mil to Spend: TT is going to stay skimpy on spending.

Like he has done every year since being here. With the salary cap era coming to what appears to be an end in the near future, with the shared revenue the nfl puts otu there to pay for salaries and all that jazz, TT yet again is choosing to just not spend money.

*sigh*

I am not saying be the jets last year. I am not saying turn into the redskins every year.

What I am saying is show some damn commitment to wining a Super Bowl. The only reason we even were close 2 years ago was because #4 came through in tight game after tight game. The defense wasn't very good that year save our two CB's, and yeah ryan grant was a surprise only after we had been an all passing team half the season.

Lets face it: TT has not shown one ounce of commitment to winning a super bowl, just commitment to making us a division competitior every year. I don't want to just dance around wining the division: I want another super bowl.

And, TT just doesn't look like he's comitted to get there. We have a young improving team. Great. AR got a golden boy contract after a few games.

Where is Jennings big deal? Why is our OL still a mess years after TT took over.

*sigh* It would just be nice for our GM to actually show in action that he actually wants to win a super bowl. This rebuilding crap has gotta just be thrown out the window. The great franchises out there just don't "rebuild". They have down periods, but they are still trying to get that ring.

You do know that Jennings' agent has to agree before they can sign him, don't you? You also realize they don't need to rush to do Jennings deal, don't you?
Bottom line, saying TT isn't committed is falt out BS. This is the same tired shit, different year.

He sure as hell rushed AR into a contract after a few games. Jennings is more proven, having big years with two different QB's, proving that he is the real deal.

This thread isn't cause we didn't get canty. It's because of other players he didn't appear to consider.

Look at Bart Scott. I believe we run a 3-4 no? Why didn't we get in the running for him with the jets? Of the three people listed that he picked up, only Woodson has been consistent. TT wants to win of course, but does he want to win a super bowl? I never vlaim him for not jumping all over the big names, but there is usually some clear palyers to be had out there every year that would improve glaring needs and he ignores them.

OL, DL, are good examples. Canty may not be worth it, but I'de rather get him then keep Justin Harrell around.

I believe Bart got 9M/yr. That would means we're paying Barnett 5.5M, Hawk 6.5M, and Chillar 3M, between the 2 ILB positions we'd dedicate 23M in cap, 1/11th of the starting lineup getting near 1/5th of the total cap.

We have 36 mil free. We can afford it.

[wist43]

I'm actually not going to throw TT under the bus for his lack of inactivity this offseason...

At this point, there are some okay players left on the market, but nothing that is much better than what the Packers have; so, why spend the money at this point???

Olshansky would help temporarily, but the Packer front seven is so completely devoid of top end talent, signing another JAG isnt going to win us a SB, so... TT is going to sit, and I'm not going to bitch too much - a little, but not too much, lol

[Waldo]

36M is 9M over the actual cap. That is a one year block of cash, not permanent cap space. If the cap is reinstated in '10 and the same amount as '09, spending that 9M makes you 9M over the cap in '10 if you pay as you go.

We don't have 36M in cap space any more.

Bigby = 1.5M
Hunter = 1M
Martin = 1M
Kuhn = 1M
Bush = 1M

They displace 5x300K

We currently have 32M in cap space.

9M is the carry forward I doubt TT spends using pay-as-you-go rules. That is money for frontloading (which has the effect of converting carry forward into long term cap space), and the yearly injury contingency (team has to carry at least 2-3M in cap space in case guys get hurt, guys on IR count towards the cap, as do the replacements brought in).

23M is the usable cap space.

Jennings is looking at Berrian money. Roughly 8M. He makes 800K. 7.2M net effect to the cap.

15.8M remaining

Colledge is looking at Scott money. His time at T is concerning, he could push for more. Roughly 5M. He makes 800K. 4.2M net effect to the cap.

11.6M remaining

Collins just went to the pro bowl, and was an all-pro. None of the S's on the market are his caliber, but they set the market. His agent should push for 6M/yr, but TT will try to keep it to 5M/yr. Lets say they split at 5.5M/yr. He makes 900K. 4.6M net effect to the cap.

7M remaining.

The rookies drafted this year will cost about 4M, and will probably displace about 2M worth of players, for a net effect of 2M to the cap.

5M remaining.

Leftovers looking at new deals in the near future (within a year) are Kampman, Pickett, Spitz, Blackmon, Driver, Clifton, Jolly, Chillar, Williams (he's an ERFA so forced to play at 400K if he signs the tender, but I can see a Grant situation where the ERFA tender is far less than he is worth). Of those Spitz, Blackmon, Jolly, and Williams will be high net players (the rest already make a lot of money, a new contract doesn't have a huge effect on the cap). If we stay put at #9, our first round pick is going to cost 5M to the cap next year (because of the rookie salary cap, first round rookies don't count much toward the cap until their second year).

Our cap space isn't nearly as good as it looks.

[imscott72]

Re: 36 Mil to Spend: TT is going to stay skimpy on spending.

Like he has done every year since being here. With the salary cap era coming to what appears to be an end in the near future, with the shared revenue the nfl puts otu there to pay for salaries and all that jazz, TT yet again is choosing to just not spend money.

*sigh*

I am not saying be the jets last year. I am not saying turn into the redskins every year.

What I am saying is show some damn commitment to wining a Super Bowl. The only reason we even were close 2 years ago was because #4 came through in tight game after tight game. The defense wasn't very good that year save our two CB's, and yeah ryan grant was a surprise only after we had been an all passing team half the season.

Lets face it: TT has not shown one ounce of commitment to winning a super bowl, just commitment to making us a division competitior every year. I don't want to just dance around wining the division: I want another super bowl.

And, TT just doesn't look like he's comitted to get there. We have a young improving team. Great. AR got a golden boy contract after a few games.

Where is Jennings big deal? Why is our OL still a mess years after TT took over.

*sigh* It would just be nice for our GM to actually show in action that he actually wants to win a super bowl. This rebuilding crap has gotta just be thrown out the window. The great franchises out there just don't "rebuild". They have down periods, but they are still trying to get that ring.

You do know that Jennings' agent has to agree before they can sign him, don't you? You also realize they don't need to rush to do Jennings deal, don't you?
Bottom line, saying TT isn't committed is falt out BS. This is the same tired shit, different year.

He sure as hell rushed AR into a contract after a few games. Jennings is more proven, having big years with two different QB's, proving that he is the real deal.

This thread isn't cause we didn't get canty. It's because of other players he didn't appear to consider.

Look at Bart Scott. I believe we run a 3-4 no? Why didn't we get in the running for him with the jets? Of the three people listed that he picked up, only Woodson has been consistent. TT wants to win of course, but does he want to win a super bowl? I never vlaim him for not jumping all over the big names, but there is usually some clear palyers to be had out there every year that would improve glaring needs and he ignores them.

OL, DL, are good examples. Canty may not be worth it, but I'de rather get him then keep Justin Harrell around.

I believe Bart got 9M/yr. That would means we're paying Barnett 5.5M, Hawk 6.5M, and Chillar 3M, between the 2 ILB positions we'd dedicate 23M in cap, 1/11th of the starting lineup getting near 1/5th of the total cap. That is bad business. Our DL is underpaid, but our LB corps, especially the ILB's, are already overpayed in a 3-4 allocation model.

Yeah and the Giants will probably have the best defense (on paper) in the NFC. Doesn't defense win championships? I missing the point on why you wouldn't spend quality money on defense. Is it a lot of money? Yes, but you can pinch pennies every year and chances are you're never going to get over the top just relying on draft picks to take you to the Super Bowl.

[Waldo]

Are you prepared to give up on Barnett or Hawk before they've been given a chance? If so, why.

I agree, throwing money at the defense is a good thing and needed, but any old defender won't do. We need a 5 tech DE, a pass rushing OLB, and a SS. Bart doesn't play those positions.

[Fritz]

Not sold on the current safeties on the roster, Waldo?

[Waldo]

Not sold on the current safeties on the roster, Waldo?

Collins is more than fine at FS, but he's a pure FS and doesn't wear the mixed SS/FS hat that Sanders had him wearing occasionally particularly well.

Rouse plays much better at FS than SS. He' just not instinctive enough for the rover SS role, and isn't very good in the box. He's a fine backup as FS though, but should be no higher than #3 on the depth chart at SS.

Peprah is awful. I don't know why we're keeping him around, he hasn't developed at all, and isn't very good on ST. He's equally bad at both SS or FS.

Bigby is fine. I like him. But he has no reasonable backup. I have no qualms with either drafting somebody high or bringing in a mid tier SS FA to push him in a position battle. No matter what we'd emerge with a solid starter and solid backup, which isn't the case right now.

[Zool]

Not sold on the current safeties on the roster, Waldo?

Collins is more than fine at FS, but he's a pure FS and doesn't wear the mixed SS/FS hat that Sanders had him wearing occasionally particularly well.

Rouse plays much better at FS than SS. He' just not instinctive enough for the rover SS role, and isn't very good in the box. He's a fine backup as FS though, but should be no higher than #3 on the depth chart at SS.

Peprah is awful. I don't know why we're keeping him around, he hasn't developed at all, and isn't very good on ST. He's equally bad at both SS or FS.

Bigby is fine. I like him. But he has no reasonable backup. I have no qualms with either drafting somebody high or bringing in a mid tier SS FA to push him in a position battle. No matter what we'd emerge with a solid starter and solid backup, which isn't the case right now.

I had almost forgotten Peprah was still employed by an NFL team. Collins did make a good jump this past season. Hopefully it wasn't an aberration. Bigby is fine, but an upgrade would be nice. Someone who stays on the field.

[Lurker64]

I don't care if he signs a premiere player, we need just need some depth at certain positions that cannot get filled through the draft unless he dedicates the first 4-5 rounds exclusively to defense.

And that's fine, since the "you're here for depth, and to compete for a starting job" guys aren't the guys who sign in the first weekend or even first week. Once the mad money is spent by the usual offenders, the more conservative teams go bargain shopping, and that's us.

[Patler]

36M is 9M over the actual cap. That is a one year block of cash, not permanent cap space. If the cap is reinstated in '10 and the same amount as '09, spending that 9M makes you 9M over the cap in '10 if you pay as you go.

We don't have 36M in cap space any more.

Bigby = 1.5M
Hunter = 1M
Martin = 1M
Kuhn = 1M
Bush = 1M

They displace 5x300K

We currently have 32M in cap space.

9M is the carry forward I doubt TT spends using pay-as-you-go rules. That is money for frontloading (which has the effect of converting carry forward into long term cap space), and the yearly injury contingency (team has to carry at least 2-3M in cap space in case guys get hurt, guys on IR count towards the cap, as do the replacements brought in).

23M is the usable cap space.

Jennings is looking at Berrian money. Roughly 8M. He makes 800K. 7.2M net effect to the cap.

15.8M remaining

Colledge is looking at Scott money. His time at T is concerning, he could push for more. Roughly 5M. He makes 800K. 4.2M net effect to the cap.

11.6M remaining

Collins just went to the pro bowl, and was an all-pro. None of the S's on the market are his caliber, but they set the market. His agent should push for 6M/yr, but TT will try to keep it to 5M/yr. Lets say they split at 5.5M/yr. He makes 900K. 4.6M net effect to the cap.

7M remaining.

The rookies drafted this year will cost about 4M, and will probably displace about 2M worth of players, for a net effect of 2M to the cap.

5M remaining.

Leftovers looking at new deals in the near future (within a year) are Kampman, Pickett, Spitz, Blackmon, Driver, Clifton, Jolly, Chillar, Williams (he's an ERFA so forced to play at 400K if he signs the tender, but I can see a Grant situation where the ERFA tender is far less than he is worth). Of those Spitz, Blackmon, Jolly, and Williams will be high net players (the rest already make a lot of money, a new contract doesn't have a huge effect on the cap). If we stay put at #9, our first round pick is going to cost 5M to the cap next year (because of the rookie salary cap, first round rookies don't count much toward the cap until their second year).

Our cap space isn't nearly as good as it looks.

I disagree with several details, but I agree that the cap space will get used quickly when you have 8 starters with contracts expiring at the end of 2009. Then you throw in Blackmon and Chiller to boot.

Isn't the carry forward from 2008 to 2009 about $7M, not $9M?

Where I disagree with you the most is that you have discounted using it. I think that is a mistake. The Packers have bumped forward almost all unused cap each season, including what was bumped forward from previous years. There is no reason to think it will be treated any differently than their "fresh" cap dollars.

Obviously, none of this matters if there is no cap next year. Then it will just matter how much they decide to spend. But assuming there is a cap and relatively equal to what it is this year, a simple way to look at a two-year budget is this:

Clifton, Kampman, Pickett, Chiller, Collins, Colledge, Jennings, Spitz, Blackmon and Jolly have contracts that will expire, clearing about $24M in cap space. Rodgers' cap value drops about $3M in 2010. With KGB's dead money and misc. others coming off, it will clear about another $2M. So the Packers will have about $29M in new cap space in 2010 to work with, in addition to the $32M available right now. Between now and the start of 2010 they will have to:

-sign two draft classes
-take up escalators in all players contracts they keep. For several like Woodson and Hawk I think there are possible significant increases.
- provide an operating slush fund for 2009 and 2010 to cover injury replacements. As you mentioned, this generally costs a couple million/year.
-pay the 2010 RFA tenders that are offered.
-sign any of the aforementioned Packer FAs, plus maybe Tauscher this year.
-sign any new FAs from other teams in 2009 or 2010.
- other details not big in and of themselves, but not insignificant in the accumulated effect, such as the salaries of the practice squad players for two seasons.

(EDIT - I forgot Bigby, he will have to be dealt with before 2010 again as well.)


The two year budget may have about $60 million to work with to sign new contracts, but it will go very quickly. It is not certain that even without signing anyone else they will have the space over the next two year to bring back all of their own FAs. Clifton may be allowed to walk, Driver might be too expensive to keep for his final year. Harris' & Woodson's cost/performance will bear evaluating as they get older and their costs go up.

Then, whatever they do they have to make sure the second years of those new contracts will fit into the 2011 budget and the expirations of contracts to Driver, Jenkins, Jackson, Jones, Rouse etc.