36 Mil to Spend: TT is going to stay skimpy on spending...

[HarveyWallbangers]

Canty isn't all that. He's a decent player, but it's not like he was even close to being a Pro Bowl caliber player. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see some players signed, but I'm okay with not overpaying. Canty was overpaid. Now, if you can get a Olshansky, Douglas, Holliday, Taylor, Adams, Burnett for a reasonable price, that would be good.

People see that we have $34M, but that's not an accurate indicator of our cap situation. I think Patler pointed it out in another thread. We also have the contracts for Jennings, Collins, Kampman, Colledge coming up soon. We need a buffer zone. I'll be upset if we don't sign a couple of guys, but I'm willing to see how it shakes out first.

[packerbacker1234]

If you don't spend the cap, just like we didn't last year, that money doesn't carry over. It's gone. Period. Never used. Sits idle for a year.

No reason we couldn't be tossing 2 year deals around and see what the market thinks.

[LL2]

If you don't spend the cap, just like we didn't last year, that money doesn't carry over. It's gone. Period. Never used. Sits idle for a year.

No reason we couldn't be tossing 2 year deals around and see what the market thinks.

As much as I would like to see some improvements through FA, I'd be more upset if Jennings, Kampman, and Collins are not locked up to long term contracts. They still have quite a few years left in them and are part of a young talented core of the Packers.

[sharpe1027]

If you don't spend the cap, just like we didn't last year, that money doesn't carry over. It's gone. Period. Never used. Sits idle for a year.

No reason we couldn't be tossing 2 year deals around and see what the market thinks.

False.

The Packers finished the 2008 season just $116,284 under the salary cap. Very little was wasted.

They also carried over more than 7 million into this year (someone feel free to give the exact number). Not gone/never used.

[Patler]

If you don't spend the cap, just like we didn't last year, that money doesn't carry over. It's gone. Period. Never used. Sits idle for a year.

You are wrong about that. The Packers have "bumped forward" almost all of their unused salary cap each year since Thompson arrived. It is done with phantom bonuses in a "likely to be earned" category. The value of the bonus counts against the salary cap in the year it COULD be earned. When it in fact is NOT earned it is added back to the salary cap the next season.

The Packers have around $7 million added to their cap limit in 2009 because of an unearned bonus in 2008 that was part of a contract they signed with a lineman in late December.

Their 2008 cap had about $9.5 million carried forward from 2007.
In 2007 it was about a million as I recall.
In 2006 it was about $2 million from a bonus provision signed with Craig Nall the last week of 2005.

[bobblehead]

Re: Favre

The only reason we even were close 2 years ago was because #4 came through in tight game after tight game. The defense wasn't very good that year save our two CB's, and yeah ryan grant was a surprise only after we had been an all passing team half the season.

We must have watched a different season...I do recall the season opener when BF almost threw the game away with an ugly pick (no offensive TD's in that game).

I recall San Diego where Barnett iced the game with a late pick. the 2008 D would have given up a TD and lost it. Barnett was the D player of the week.

I remember the first Bears game where BF tossed 2 picks to tie Blanda for the career best...er worst mark.

The next week we came back and BF tossed 2 more picks against washington in leading us to 10 offensive points, but chuck woodson picked up a fumble and went 50+ for a TD to save us.

After the bye week BF led us to 13 total points (a TD on a blown coverage was the first score) in regulation and the Defense made a great last second stand to get us to OT. Pretty sure BF's awesome pass in OT wouldn't have happened with the 2008 Defense on the field.

Ah then came the chiefs where BF tossed a pre halftime Pick with a 6-0 lead...ooops, we ended up going in down 7-6. I do admit that the second half of that game was BF at his best though.

Week 10 was the breakout of Grant, and the defense threw a shutout...all BF's inspiration no doubt.

week 11 we beat a 44 year old QB while getting a punt return TD from TWill and Cory Williams was Def. player of the week.

We then beat the powerhouse Lions...something happened the next week in Dallas, but I have blocked it out for some reason...no doubt it was one of those great BF perfomances you speak of so I have selectively deleted it from my memory.

Weeks 14,15 and 17 we dominated powerhouse teams....Rams, Raiders and Lions again. Our defense gave up 34 total points in those games....and again I'll block out week 16, but I'm quite sure BF didn't play too well (or anyone else).

And Mad, before you break out the quarter please consider that I wasn't inflamatory, I'm merely refuting (quite well) a stupid statement of:

The only reason we even were close 2 years ago was because #4 came through in tight game after tight game. The defense wasn't very good that year.....

If people make foolish statements like this they deserve to see the truth.

The only problem is it's YOUR truth, not THE truth. In fact, your opinion is full of holes not to mention hypocritical garbage.

You blame Favre when many instances that you cited involved other players screwing up. Then when Favre did do well, you credit other people for it.

The bottom line is this and it is a FACT. It cannot be disputed. You can make all the excuses you want and twist it to suit your purpose.

13-3 with Brett Favre
6-10 without him.

It was basically the same team. Now, when you take into effect the luck, schedule or bounce of the ball, no two seasons should be exactly alike.

However, the HUGE difference in the records would support the logical conclusion to any REASONABLE person that #04 had a very real impact on how good that 13-3 team was.

My point was that its a 53 man roster and the original poster claimed the only reason we were 13-3 was Favre...I showed different. I do agree it was BF's best season since his last MVP, but to say he was the only reason that team went 13-3 is pure crap...and as for your bottom line:

13-3 with Rob Davis
6-10 without Rob Davis

edit: or this bottom line:

Brett 2007: 356 535 66.5 4,155 28 15
ARod 2008 341 536 63.6 4,038 28 13

YEP, QB play was obviously the big difference

[HarveyWallbangers]

Their 2008 cap had about $9.5 million carried forward from 2007.
In 2007 it was about a million as I recall.
In 2006 it was about $2 million from a bonus provision signed with Craig Nall the last week of 2005.

Do you get the feeling Thompson carried over as much money as he could this year, so he could work out long-term deals with some key players like Jennings, Kampman, Collins. etc. this offseason?

[bobblehead]

Re: FA's

No one is crying "sign everyone!" Signing a couple guys every year to shore up weaknesses isn't a crime however. You can't go into next season refusing to sign anyone because there are contracts expiring in the near future. The NFL is a "win now" league. If you don't win now, then your job is on the line. If we end up 8-8 or worse next season, I wouldn't want to be in TT's shoes.

Actually it isn't a win now league...the best long term winners have a couple things in common.

A solid or great QB
A reasonable running game'
A very good or great Defense.

Dallas and New England built primarily through the draft and the one year that they signed big name FA's and traded for Moss is the only year they LOST the superbowl.

Every year or so a few teams move big in FA. San Fran with Nate Clements, Washington with...you name it, Dallas with TO, Pacman, Minnesota with our used up guys and Jarred Allen. Most teams that make the big move don't even get to a championship, several miss the playoffs (jets last year).

See when you handicap developing young guys and continue to recycle old dudes you never get over the hump and you are constantly trying to fill holes. It just doesn't work.

[Lurker64]

Re: Favre

13-3 with Rob Davis
6-10 without Rob Davis

BRING BACK ROB!!!!

[Patler]

Their 2008 cap had about $9.5 million carried forward from 2007.
In 2007 it was about a million as I recall.
In 2006 it was about $2 million from a bonus provision signed with Craig Nall the last week of 2005.

Do you get the feeling Thompson carried over as much money as he could this year, so he could work out long-term deals with some key players like Jennings, Kampman, Collins. etc. this offseason?

Definitely. I think that is why he has been quiet in FA the last two years, building room to work with to renew some of his core players. I think that is also why they completed Rodgers deal last year. If you kept him in with the remaining group it would have been very complex dealing with a dozen or so this year at the top of the roster. I expect between now and the end of the season they will work out deals for a couple, and try to do the others after that.

[RashanGary]

Do you get the feeling Thompson carried over as much money as he could this year, so he could work out long-term deals with some key players like Jennings, Kampman, Collins. etc. this offseason?

My guess is that Thompson saw a dearth of depth and upcoming talent when he got here in 2005. He knew that there would not be many core players coming up for contracts because there were not many core players.

I think he thought he would do a better job adding core players through the draft/other avenues and while the money wasn't being spent immediately, a day would come where there would be several players hitting their primes, needing deals.

In order to sign several good contracts, you need to draft several good players (5 good players in the 4 years before Thompson took over is awful). UFA contracts are historically bad because several teams bidding raises the demand and > demand = greater price. That's a fact. When you draft your own, the player has to either risk injury and fight tags or they can sign a fair deal early below UFA price, but still substantial.

Rather than just spending it immediately to say it was spent, Thompson chose to spend when the decision was smart (UFA tends to be dumb and resigning own tends to be smart, so not having any of ones own would mean fewer signings until drafts actually produced quality players). He ended up pushing forward, but that was a result of what he had, not an unwillingness to spend

My prediction is you'll see several players signed early (Jennings, Collins, Colledge, Spitz, maybe Jolly) and you'll see Kampman franchised because they need to wait and see with him. My guess is much less money will be pushed forward because the last 4 drafts have produced 3 times as much talent as the previous 4 and it trickles down to where money is being spent to lock them up to their 2nd deals.

[imscott72]

Re: FA's

No one is crying "sign everyone!" Signing a couple guys every year to shore up weaknesses isn't a crime however. You can't go into next season refusing to sign anyone because there are contracts expiring in the near future. The NFL is a "win now" league. If you don't win now, then your job is on the line. If we end up 8-8 or worse next season, I wouldn't want to be in TT's shoes.

Actually it isn't a win now league..

Marty Schottenheimer and Mike Shanahan disagree..

[Partial]

3 times as much talent? Dude, you're high. TT has done well on finding marginal starters in the bottom of the draft, but he has struck out on the top for the most part.

The most talented player on the Pack came from FA.
The second most talented in a 2nd round pick of his.
The third is an old LT that was already here.
The fourth is a DL Sherman drafted.
The fifth is a guy Sherman added as a FA DL.

[ThunderDan]

3 times as much talent? Dude, you're high. TT has done well on finding marginal starters in the bottom of the draft, but he has struck out on the top for the most part.

The most talented player on the Pack came from FA.
The second most talented in a 2nd round pick of his.
The third is an old LT that was already here.
The fourth is a DL Sherman drafted.
The fifth is a guy Sherman added as a FA DL.

One could argue with his pick of Rodgers he draft a QB capable of replacing Favre when he finally left. And not seeing the horrible QB play that has tortured Chi, Det, Minn for the last numerous years makes me happy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

3 times as much talent? Dude, you're high. TT has done well on finding marginal starters in the bottom of the draft, but he has struck out on the top for the most part.

The most talented player on the Pack came from FA.
The second most talented in a 2nd round pick of his.
The third is an old LT that was already here.
The fourth is a DL Sherman drafted.
The fifth is a guy Sherman added as a FA DL.

Woodson, Jennings, Clifton, Kampman, and who? Jenkins? There are several other players I'd take over Jenkins. Collins, Harris, Rodgers, Driver, Pickett, Barnett, Hawk (when he's healthy), probably Grant (we'll see, but I think health had a lot to do with his first half swoon last year).