More Banjo - Packers at Buccaneers

[Patler]

... since we are almost certain not to extend him and this season is more lost than when we traded Rasul I'd say that moving Nixon would probably make sense.

Do you promise not to complain about it when they make the playoffs after trading him. and have to start Valentine in his place??

[pbmax]

I need the old Bretsky back for some realistic optimism

[Bretsky]

I need the old Bretsky back for some realistic optimism

HERE IS SOME OPTOMISTIC REALITY

We're not that far from getting Micah Parson's back. He's our difference maker. Difference makers can make our secondary better. He can also make Wyatt and Nan Ness better. Playmakers can flip the script. He's our playmaker. We may have the best safety tandem in the NFL Josh Jacobs could be back in a few weeks. We have two very good WR's and a TE who will keep getting better as he returns from a serious knee surgery. Our incompetent GM completly ate crow and signed anybody he could find off the street at OL, and a few of them are going to be immediate starters. Yes, we're 2 and 2; if we can just find a way to get to 3-3, and then 4-4, our playmaker and OL and a returning Jacobs could hit full stride. Playoffs could be in order.

HERE IS THE PESSIMISTIC REALTY

Gutebags performance in the past couple years has shown he's the motherload of a F'ck us a GM. We had a fairly decent OL when we lost to Phily in the playoffs. He overracted and changed everything and not a single move he made was positive. The whole Packerrat forum was right in waning Cooper DeJean, who seemed to fall into our lap. But Gute is too smart and has to overvalue and chase the athletic freaks. Beckton sucks. Aaron Banks has been a historic nightmare at OG. The media, in interviews, believes they picked up from Banks that nobody, but GB was chasing him, but Green Bay, who basically was bidding against themselves. He gave us nothing year one and the first 20 Plus million was gone. Gutebag doubles down on him and guarantees another 20 plus million. Meanwhile, Cole Van Lannen, Rasheed Wallace, Elgin Jenkins, Jon Runyan Jr, and Josh Meyers are all fairly good OL for other teams in the NFL. Most of the media, and many in Packerrats saw the offensive line Implosion before the season started, calling for the signing of Kevin Zeitler and anybody else out there who is competent. Why TF did it take our I'm so much smarter than you GM three weeks of failire to figure this all out.

Besides, just sucking, there are many signs over the years that Gutebag is an isolated GM whose coach seems like he's left on Gutebag island to make the draft messes work. These quotes about "we have to coach them up" shows the obvious separation. Watching the Flower struggle through answers about the quality/play in some of the players he has pawned on him is a struggle. Don't close your eyes and think the Flower was remotely happy about dumping on guys like Aaron Jones. Gutebag sitting up in the box, by himself, to me is telling. Have we ever seen anything effective or good signs between our GM/coach or GM/players ? Is this how we picture things in San Francisco where the GM/coach are clearly on the same wavelengths.

He's the wrong guy for this job. Mark Murphy set up this stupid structure to try to encourage the Coach and GM to be on more equal ground so they could effectively communicate together and strive for the mutual goal. Not to be captain obvious, but it's been a miserable failure. Go back and Listen to some of the comments Aaron Rodgers made during all the conflict. It was clear he lacked effective communications with our GM and questioned the atmosphere. Gentleman, don't give the Flower any lie detector tests about this; I bet he'd feel the same way. My Gosh, was Aaron Rodgers right all along ?

GUTEBAG MUST GO

[bobblehead]

Do you promise not to complain about it when they make the playoffs after trading him. and have to start Valentine in his place??

100%. I may be pretty vociferous, but if I'm wrong that would be great. I criticized the Douglas trade the second they made it. Called it horrible. I think at the time I said we should trade Preston Smith (who we eventually did the next year when we got a 7th). You make it sound like my criticism ONLY came after we made the playoffs. I'm consistent in what I believe, not a revisionist. I have no interest or concerns if we trade Nixon as I just don't think he is a good CB1. He is a slot guy who is a good returner. Nothing more. If we trade him and stay consistent by limping to the 7th seed I doubt we upset a Dallas and look like a team that could run the table if we had one more decent CB.

Bottom line, I own it when I'm wrong (Bullard is a player. I hated the pick. Partly cuz we should have taken DeJean, but Bullard is probably on par with Cooper as a slot). I didn't start complaining about trading Rasul when we made the playoffs and I don't even remember who had to play. I complained like 4 seconds after we made the trade.

edit: You want to know how bad we are right now. Tell me when you remember me talking like this in week 5 ever before? I usually am saying its a game of ebb and flow, teams go through things, we can still right the ship, relax. I don't see an out for this roster. We are lacking at CB, run defense (again), OL and RB. Too many holes. I doubt we get a 7 seed, but if we do we are almost certainly one and done. The OL is obviously poorly coached. Stenavich needs to go, not keep getting promoted. Gutes should be fired. I still think MiLF is a decent coach (he schemed up some points in TB. It wasn't cuz Glover played like TJ Lang). But probably if you are cleaning house you move on from him too.

Worst of all, we are about to get destroyed by the Bears and the biggest asshole head coach in the game.

[Fritz]

On another note, because there have been so many problems with the Packers this year, one glaring problem has flown under the radar a bit: Marshawn Lloyd sucks.

For two years, he kinda sorta got a pass because he was injured and couldn’t play. And because the offensive line has been so awful, Lloyd’s lack of success seems understandable.

But the guy fumbles a lot, just like in college, and if there’s not a three foot wide gap in front of him, he reverses direction, usually for little or no gain. You can say he’s still getting his feet under him and the o-line needs to be better, but it doesn’t look promising to me. Might be another Guter third round whiff.

Speaking of RB’s and the GM, did Guter give up a pick for Kaleb Johnson? If so, why? You can get that level of running back off anybody’s practice squad without giving up a pick. He’s completely unimpressive.

[pbmax]

On another note, because there have been so many problems with the Packers this year, one glaring problem has flown under the radar a bit: Marshawn Lloyd sucks.

For two years, he kinda sorta got a pass because he was injured and couldn’t play. And because the offensive line has been so awful, Lloyd’s lack of success seems understandable.

But the guy fumbles a lot, just like in college, and if there’s not a three foot wide gap in front of him, he reverses direction, usually for little or no gain. You can say he’s still getting his feet under him and the o-line needs to be better, but it doesn’t look promising to me. Might be another Guter third round whiff.

Speaking of RB’s and the GM, did Guter give up a pick for Kaleb Johnson? If so, why? You can get that level of running back off anybody’s practice squad without giving up a pick. He’s completely unimpressive.

He had shown burst in preseason and his one partial game. The only time that shows up now is when he gets a short pass now.

[pbmax]

HERE IS SOME OPTOMISTIC REALITY

I can sense your heart is not in this,

HERE IS THE PESSIMISTIC REALTY

NOT WHAT I AM ASKING FOR!

[pbmax]

Huber wrote a piece at SI about how despite a piss poor running game, the play action pass is still working for Love and the offense.

La Fleur's answer to that development? You can't use it more because down and distance would reduce its effectiveness outside of first down. If it's 1st and 20 or 2nd and 10 after an OLine flinches or failed run, ILBs aren't going to care about the run.

This is partially true. But the the Love of Love, the play action pass is so superior right now that if its effectiveness dropped by 50% in long down and distances, it would still be the best part of the Packers pass game.

This kind of mind lock is exactly why the offense can't adjust to run its best stuff and looks lost. LaFleur is talking himself out of it before the game starts. You are not going to have the perfect play against what he terms an elite look (exactly what you want the defense to be playing). Sometimes you gotta just call it, take the positive yards to make your other calls more feasible.

[pbmax]

On another note, because there have been so many problems with the Packers this year, one glaring problem has flown under the radar a bit: Marshawn Lloyd sucks.

I've got another bad one. Matthew Golden improvises on a lot of his routes and that is causing part of the disconnect with Love. He doesn't have the same errors with Watson and Kraft. Its year 2, gotta tighten that up Golden.

[pbmax]

Here is a good one: Jager Burton is legit and will be good.

Whatever the coaches were doing with their public evaluations of Monk going against air with "attitude", Burton is a real player in real game situations.

[Joemailman]

On another note, because there have been so many problems with the Packers this year, one glaring problem has flown under the radar a bit: Marshawn Lloyd sucks.

For two years, he kinda sorta got a pass because he was injured and couldn’t play. And because the offensive line has been so awful, Lloyd’s lack of success seems understandable.

But the guy fumbles a lot, just like in college, and if there’s not a three foot wide gap in front of him, he reverses direction, usually for little or no gain. You can say he’s still getting his feet under him and the o-line needs to be better, but it doesn’t look promising to me. Might be another Guter third round whiff.

Speaking of RB’s and the GM, did Guter give up a pick for Kaleb Johnson? If so, why? You can get that level of running back off anybody’s practice squad without giving up a pick. He’s completely unimpressive.

Gute gave up a 2028 6th pick for Johnson. I think he was worth taking a stab at. I like him better than Lloyd. His 31 yard run last week looked pretty explosive. Lloyd has been learning this offense for 3 years. Johnson has been here a month. I'll give him some time as long as there are no more fumbles at the 3 yard line. Can't have that. Can't be easy coming to a new team and learning a new offense behind an offensive line that is a wreck when you get there.

[Fritz]

Well, that is true. I'm just feeling particularly pessimistic about this team this year. I think it's mostly because of the penalties and dropped passes and fumbles. They just look . . . inept. And that's without the clownshow that the offensive line has been.

[Joemailman]

Well, that is true. I'm just feeling particularly pessimistic about this team this year. I think it's mostly because of the penalties and dropped passes and fumbles. They just look . . . inept. And that's without the clownshow that the offensive line has been.

Those guys were something the 1st 3 weeks.

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[texaspackerbacker]

Do you promise not to complain about it when they make the playoffs after trading him. and have to start Valentine in his place??

I don't know if you were asking me or bobblehead. I sure wouldn't complain, though. Valentine is a good cover Corner who can't or won't do a good job tackling. I'll take that any day over somebody like Nixon who can't cover worth shit. Ideally, we get somebody better than either. I advocated getting Joey Porter, but the Jerry Jones snagged him instead. I don't know if there is anybody else out there or not.

I mostly don't agree with Bretsky that Gutekunst is so horrible. His failing to get us a better Corner (in addition to Cisse), though, is pretty bad - and it seems like he simply didn't try hard enough there. The O Line situation, well, it's proactive mistakes there - hugely overpaying for Banks (and you could say for ZBB too), and drafting Morgan fairly high. I of course continue to say O Line mediocrity doesn't make much difference. However, the situation sorta got so bad as to not even rise to mediocrity. I do tend to like Gutekunst's desperation measures there, though. Tomlinson seemed to block pretty good. I have some hope for Becton. And I'm glad he got Zeitler fairly cheap. Hopefully he will help too.