STICKING TO THE PLAN

[Merlin]

KY - Spot on.

We had better get used to "up and coming" players holding us for ransom. One of the drawbacks of having so many young players is that if a lot of them turn out to be something, or could be something, eventually you will have to pay them something and we are coming full circle on this. This year, next year, the year after, it will never end as long as you refuse to bring in anyone that can actually play, Woodson not withstanding. Some of us warned about this whole approach way back when Thompson took over and look at where we are now, just where many of us said we would be. We all "hoped" it would be different but unfortunately it is not. Switching to the 3-4 buys Thompson a few more years of mediocrity because the argument will be that "change" takes time.

[SnakeLH2006]

Re: Hodge

That is why I'm so critical of failed choices. I just don't shrugg it off and say "oh well, ya can't be right on every pick". I see the bigger picture and how bad moves by a GM trickle down. One impact player in 4 seasons is a very poor record and foolish to defend.

I think you are being unrealistic. Many choices will fail. You have to look at the body of work. This is a make or break year for TT. HIs first 2 drafts have had enough time to develope. We must win 9 games minimum this season or you can start to question his ability to hit on players. I will always defend his WAY of building a team, I believe its the best way. The only question at this point is, does he have the eye to pick out players or not. This season tells the tail.

I agree. And your post should end this thread becuase thats all that needs to be said.

Holy shit...Snake's not even drunk yet and he agrees with your post. That's twice in a week?!! Snake fears the Rapture. It's coming I tell ya!

[gex]

TT's an average GM.... his win-loss record points towards being a below average one at that....Diehard fans on Lions forums were also raving about how good MM was and that NEXT year would prove that his way was the right way... LOL

[SnakeLH2006]

TT's an average GM.... his win-loss record points towards being a below average one at that....Diehard fans on Lions forums were also raving about how good MM was and that NEXT year would prove that his way was the right way... LOL

Text link or it's not true.

Snake has it on lock from Joe Arrigo that those Lions "fans" (if that is a term) don't drink Kool-Aid but liquid acid to form that opinion.

[Fritz]

KY - Spot on.

We had better get used to "up and coming" players holding us for ransom. One of the drawbacks of having so many young players is that if a lot of them turn out to be something, or could be something, eventually you will have to pay them something and we are coming full circle on this. This year, next year, the year after, it will never end as long as you refuse to bring in anyone that can actually play, Woodson not withstanding. Some of us warned about this whole approach way back when Thompson took over and look at where we are now, just where many of us said we would be. We all "hoped" it would be different but unfortunately it is not. Switching to the 3-4 buys Thompson a few more years of mediocrity because the argument will be that "change" takes time.

I'll use Merlin's post as a way of responding to KY. I see now that you've used Bodden as an example, so I understand better what you're advocating. I was less inclined to agree with you until I read the italicized line above from Merlin's post. It got me to thinking: traditionally, you keep your young guys because the ones who develop can be retained through their prime years. However, one or two promising-but-not-stone-cold-convincing seasons may give players and their agents the idea that they need to be paid big money sooner than their free agent status (or lack thereof) might allow. Grant and Williams might be cases-in-point.

Thus, TT's stick-to-the-young-'uns philosophy might be encouraging the up-and-comers to hold out sooner than they might otherwise. And as Merlin's line above suggests, in some cases the team might not really even be yet sure what it is they have. That puts the team in a vulnerabale position - do we pay a guy some big money, or fairly big money, based on promise and devel;opment, knowing we're still not quite sure what we have, or do we let some walk or hold out, knowing that we may have developed a Pro Bowl player for someone else to then pick up and use in his prime?

Hmm. You might be onto something, KY. I wonder what Patler, Waldo, Lurk, others might think.

I already know what you think, Bretsky!

[Fritz]

On another front - same idea, sticking to the plan - here's a Thompson quote from Nickel;'s article: "There were a few things that we tried that were a little crazy that just didn't work out"

Hmm...I wonder what Ted would think was something that was "a little crazy."

Having Mckenzie even call Canty's agent?

Allowing himself, in private, in the middle of the night when no one was around, to wonder what it would be like to make an offer to Olshansky?

Calling Carolina to find out what they would want for Peppers?

Hmm...Ted, that crazy guy.

[Joemailman]

I'm guessing MM was referring to the idea of actually wanting to meet Canty in person before offering him tens of millions of dollars.

[wist43]

On another front - same idea, sticking to the plan - here's a Thompson quote from Nickel;'s article: "There were a few things that we tried that were a little crazy that just didn't work out"

Hmm...I wonder what Ted would think was something that was "a little crazy."

Having Mckenzie even call Canty's agent?

Allowing himself, in private, in the middle of the night when no one was around, to wonder what it would be like to make an offer to Olshansky?

Calling Carolina to find out what they would want for Peppers?

Hmm...Ted, that crazy guy.

He had a nightmare that he tried to move up in the draft... woke up in a cold sweat, ran to the bathroom, splashed some water on his face, and realized it was all a bad dream

[KYPack]

On another front - same idea, sticking to the plan - here's a Thompson quote from Nickel;'s article: "There were a few things that we tried that were a little crazy that just didn't work out"

Hmm...I wonder what Ted would think was something that was "a little crazy."

Having Mckenzie even call Canty's agent?

Allowing himself, in private, in the middle of the night when no one was around, to wonder what it would be like to make an offer to Olshansky?

Calling Carolina to find out what they would want for Peppers?

Hmm...Ted, that crazy guy.

Fritz, guess you kinda answered your own question. I don't want this to lapse into the usual anti-TT drivel. The plan is largely working. This from the site "Mocking the Draft" analyzing the Packers last 3 drafts ...

These 12 guys [the players drafted in the 1st three rounds in 2006, 2007, and 2008] have played in 314 of a possible 432 games, which is 72.9%. This is the highest we've seen yet. I'm gonna guess this is one of the better percentages in the league, especially with how well they did in 2006.



More about "the plan", this kinda set me back....

"McCarthy said Monday was a key date for the team, as the Packers begin the off season conditioning period. Last year the Packers had 90% attendance for their off season programs and considered the off season work very successful.

"That's something I want to maintain again this off season," McCarthy said."

The Packers considered the off season work very successful, eh?

Our ST's were a disaster, we finished 6-10, and we fired the strength coach and got a new guy who can crack the whip on weight training. Where in that is a successful off season program? Was it successful 'cause everybody completed it, er what?

[Fritz]

i think, KY, that MM might mean that the participation level was excellent and that the players bought into it. Those are important factors for McCarthy.

As to my guesses to what might be considered "crazy" by TT, you know by now I am a proponent of Thompson's way of doing things, so I wanted to have some fun. However, I also wondered if maybe there were some feelers put out that we never learned about. I'm thinking of the Peppers thing - there was one JSO blog, I think, that mentioned whispers of GB being genuinely interested in Peppers.

This leads me to a question: would he play DE or linebacker in a 3-4 scheme? I know little about the guy.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm not gonna say it was a bad post. It's better than what most of the professionals write.

Just the same, I disagree with your basic premise. The Packers are one of the very most successful teams over the last couple of decades doing what they do--what Lori said--doing VERY little messing around with free agents from elsewhere/building from within.

I like it like that.

Well, back at ya, Lone Star.

Our victorious SB team had Reggie White, Sean Jones, Gilbert Brown, Brett Favre, and Santana Dotson on it. All were the result of trades, marquee free agent signings, and value FA pick-ups. We did it then and we can do it now. I'm all for building for the draft, but that ain't the only way to get it done.

Thompson is great at drafting players, managing the cap, and building a team.

He needs to add personnel thru all available channels.

We need some CB help. Leigh Bodden should have been pursued and signed if possible. NE gets him for the minimum? I don't like that one little bit and I don't care what anybody says about it. We should have pursued a solid hand like Leigh. That's a value FA that we need to chase and land on our roster.

I see your point about Favre, Reggie, and a few others. My point is, though, that the big name signings have been few and far between, and therefore pretty successful/well thought out/whatever. That has been the consistent Packer way all the way from Thompson to Sherman to Thompson.

Some of those you mentioned were cheap free agents. We've always signed our share of those. That along with usually signing and keeping our own are what I like--rather than alwasy seeing what we don't have as better than what we do have,

As for Bodden, I honestly don't know that much about him, but I really don't think we NEED help at Corner. We have five who should be excellent, as well as Bush as the sixth best.

[Pugger]

I'm not gonna say it was a bad post. It's better than what most of the professionals write.

Just the same, I disagree with your basic premise. The Packers are one of the very most successful teams over the last couple of decades doing what they do--what Lori said--doing VERY little messing around with free agents from elsewhere/building from within.

I like it like that.

Well, back at ya, Lone Star.

Our victorious SB team had Reggie White, Sean Jones, Gilbert Brown, Brett Favre, and Santana Dotson on it. All were the result of trades, marquee free agent signings, and value FA pick-ups. We did it then and we can do it now. I'm all for building for the draft, but that ain't the only way to get it done.

Thompson is great at drafting players, managing the cap, and building a team.

He needs to add personnel thru all available channels.

We need some CB help. Leigh Bodden should have been pursued and signed if possible. NE gets him for the minimum? I don't like that one little bit and I don't care what anybody says about it. We should have pursued a solid hand like Leigh. That's a value FA that we need to chase and land on our roster.

However, this isn't the early 90s. You don't see players like the guys Wolf got in the FA market today. Teams tag their impact players thus taking them off the market aka Peppers. After hearing the crap about Haynesworth I'm glad TT stayed away. Canty had his heart set on NY and that Igor guy had maturity issues. So unless you hit on most of your drafts and make trades its not easy today to improve your team in short order. These changes in FA were one of the reasons Wolf retired!

[KYPack]

I see your point about Favre, Reggie, and a few others. My point is, though, that the big name signings have been few and far between, and therefore pretty successful/well thought out/whatever. That has been the consistent Packer way all the way from Thompson to Sherman to Thompson.

Some of those you mentioned were cheap free agents. We've always signed our share of those. That along with usually signing and keeping our own are what I like--rather than alwasy seeing what we don't have as better than what we do have,

As for Bodden, I honestly don't know that much about him, but I really don't think we NEED help at Corner. We have five who should be excellent, as well as Bush as the sixth best.

I imagine you meant Wolf to Sherman to Thompson. That's right, we used to get our share of the street FA's. I'm saying NOW we don't get our proper share of that personnel segment.

As to Pugger, NO, I don't wanna see us get involved in signing a bunch of big ticket, stupid money guys. I don't lamnent that we didn't get Haynesworth or Canty. I want us to get some able spear carrier guys. Players that we are missing out on now. TT does not want to sign those guys. Mainly because they have low ceilings and they will take reps and roster spots from his kids that he drafts.

I wanted to see us cut Juice Coston and sign some ugly, old street FA OL.

Why?

Because that kind of player is a better solution than the kind of player Thompson likes to keep. One of his kiddie corp that well might not pan out.

It's hurting us and it needs to change.

[Waldo]

Why be critical of an unfinished product?

Complain all you want about his methods as an armchair GM (it's fun ), nobody is right or wrong until the leaves begin to change.

One thing to remember about Ted, he has 10000x the information at his disposal than everyone on this board combined, via a self scout, FA scout, prospects scout, coaches take, $$ projections, etc....

The only difference between ineptitude and genius is the final record, the methodology is unimportant. Complaining over spilled milk before the carton is even opened is rather pointless.

[GrnBay007]

Complaining over spilled milk before the carton is even opened is rather pointless.

How many years do we have to wait to open the carton?