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  • Flynn and Brohm get to work in offseason program

    by Mike Spofford, Packers.com
    posted 04/10/2009

    In a perfect world, second-year quarterbacks Matt Flynn and Brian Brohm would have gotten to do this last year, before getting a huge playbook thrown at them as rookies.

    The schedule doesn't really allow for it, though, with the NFL Draft in late April and OTAs starting roughly a month after that.

    So this second season is their first opportunity to take advantage of a full offseason to prepare and improve their games, and Flynn and Brohm are soaking up everything they can in their first go-round through the team's offseason quarterback workouts.

    It's a fairly comprehensive program that coincides with the offseason schedule for the entire team, with aspects designed specifically for quarterbacks. In addition to regular strength and conditioning work, the QBs also participate in various drills to hone the fundamentals and extensive film sessions to learn the finer points of Head Coach Mike McCarthy's West Coast offense.

    "I think it's really going to help, just from going through a whole year of being in the offense and now getting to go through QB school," said Brohm, a second-round draft pick a year ago. "Really, to play quarterback in this system, you need to understand every little detail, and going through this will help solidify that.

    "When you know all the details, you can just go out there and play and not have to think about them, so I think it should be very good for all of us."

    Aaron Rodgers is proof of that, having gone through three offseasons of QB work in 2006, '07 and '08 with McCarthy and quarterbacks coach Tom Clements before his first game as a starter last year, and he went on to throw for more than 4,000 yards.

    Even as the starter, Rodgers still participates to keep himself sharp and improving, as well as to help teach Flynn and Brohm at times. As with Rodgers in previous years, the process is really geared toward quarterbacks in their early stages of development, and the learning curve is dramatically different from a quarterback's rookie season, where everything from the playbook to the drills to life in the NFL is coming fast and furious.

    "Now we get to take it slow and take it step by step," said Flynn, a seventh-round pick who beat out Brohm for the No. 2 job last season. "When we get here as rookies, you're just thrown in and you start running plays immediately. The first year, especially at the beginning, it was a lot of memorization. You're just memorizing things. Now, we get to take a step back and actually learn the offense and understand why."

    Why the running back chooses to stay in to pass block or slip into the flat, for instance. Or why a certain receiver is the hot guy against a particular blitz, but why there may be a different hot target if the defense changes its look. Or why a tight end might run his route a certain way, or why his blocking assignment is a particular defender.

    That learning is accomplished primarily by analyzing the film of every snap of the previous season - the pre- and post-snap reads, the adjustments, and the decisions made by the quarterback, in this case Rodgers, who took all but a handful of the regular-season snaps in 2008.

    The studying can be done at a pace and a level of detail that's not feasible during a quarterback's rookie season, when his first exposure to the playbook is the first week of May and training camp is less than two months away. Compared to a year ago, Flynn and Brohm will have six weeks of work in this year before they even knew they would be Packers in 2008.

    "You try to hit everything during the season, but at the same time you have to get ready to play," Brohm said. "A lot of times the minor details get lost when you're just trying to figure out what the play is and where the receivers are going.

    "Now we're learning all those small details. What if you get this look? How are you going to adjust the protection? What's the tackle going to do? Why is he going to do that?

    "Knowing why everybody is doing what they're doing really helps you understand the offense and will make you much more comfortable when you get out there."

    More polished fundamentals can add to that comfort level and efficiency for a young quarterback, and much of the on-field time is spent focusing on things like footwork, drop depth, throwing mechanics, and out-of-pocket movement.

    "Footwork is one of the most important things you can do physically," Flynn said. "You have big guys coming as fast as they can, so you need to get away from the line of scrimmage, and you want to get as much depth as you can, get there as fast as you can, and be on balance, because if you're not on balance, you can't throw accurately.

    "That's the main thing, staying on balance at all times, and being ready to throw at different steps in the dropback in case there's hot routes and blitzes and stuff like that. It's a lot different than what I did in college, so it's a learning process right now."

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    A learning process that, come OTAs and training camp this year, will make these quarterbacks' whirlwind rookie year seem a lot longer ago than it really was.

    Of the two, Flynn had the better of it last year, winning the backup job with a stronger preseason showing. But he's well aware there are a lot of gains to be made, and he plans to start making some of them in 2009.

    "I want to be able to go to practice, and when I get the play call and call it, I don't want to have to be thinking about it," Flynn said. "I want it to become second nature so I can focus on what I have to do, instead of worrying about where people are lined up or where people are running, kind of like it was at the beginning of last year."

    Brohm went through the same thing, and though the No. 3 job wasn't what he had in mind for his rookie season, the quarterbacks' offseason program has given him a chance to start fresh and focus on improving at every stage.

    "In college I fully understood the offense I was in, I was able to make adjustments, check off at the line, and that's where I need to get," Brohm said. "I need to get to that point in this offense, so when I get out there, I'm fully comfortable, I know what everyone is doing, and you can play fast. That's really the key, is understanding what you have to do and being comfortable out there, so you can play as fast as possible and just play football."
    Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

  • #2
    It looks like the gamble to keep two talented players that weren't ready over a below average journeyman might pay off.


    I'm at a point where I think one of these guys will be legit, maybe both, possibly neither but I have confidence that between TT and MM, they will have have hit on one. I also have confidence that they know how to develop them, so if they are legit, they're going to have a chance to shine with McCArthys experience teaching QB's.
    Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

    Comment


    • #3
      We were a little spoiled with what we expect out of a QB, starting every game every year. The reality is that 65% of starting QBs every year drop out with an injury. Rodgers, sooner than later if history predicts future, will have an injury. One of these up coming years might be that special year where it all comes together for a SB run. Do we want to piss it away with an injury to our QB that can and does happen every year? No. We want to be prepared and it looks like we might be very well prepared.

      The value of Brohm and Flynn to this team is very high and that is before you consider any future trade possibility. This is just one of many positive things that can happen when you consider the whole term of a decision rather than just the short term. Good job, Ted.
      Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JustinHarrell
        We were a little spoiled with what we expect out of a QB, starting every game every year. The reality is that 65% of starting QBs every year drop out with an injury. Rodgers, sooner than later if history predicts future, will have an injury. One of these up coming years might be that special year where it all comes together for a SB run. Do we want to piss it away with an injury to our QB that can and does happen every year? No. We want to be prepared and it looks like we might be very well prepared.

        The value of Brohm and Flynn to this team is very high and that is before you consider any future trade possibility. This is just one of many positive things that can happen when you consider the whole term of a decision rather than just the short term. Good job, Ted.
        Exactly what I was gonna say about QB injuries.

        I was fairly confident that either of these guys could do the job in an emergency last year, and more so this year.

        I'm thinking Brohm has a lot of potential, and that in a couple of years, we can cash him in like Brunell, Hasselback, or Brooks. Maybe the same for Flynn, but I see him as more of a Zeke Bratkowski/Doug Peterson kind of Packer.
        What could be more GOOD and NORMAL and AMERICAN than Packer Football?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by texaspackerbacker
          Originally posted by JustinHarrell
          We were a little spoiled with what we expect out of a QB, starting every game every year. The reality is that 65% of starting QBs every year drop out with an injury. Rodgers, sooner than later if history predicts future, will have an injury. One of these up coming years might be that special year where it all comes together for a SB run. Do we want to piss it away with an injury to our QB that can and does happen every year? No. We want to be prepared and it looks like we might be very well prepared.

          The value of Brohm and Flynn to this team is very high and that is before you consider any future trade possibility. This is just one of many positive things that can happen when you consider the whole term of a decision rather than just the short term. Good job, Ted.
          Exactly what I was gonna say about QB injuries.

          I was fairly confident that either of these guys could do the job in an emergency last year, and more so this year.

          I'm thinking Brohm has a lot of potential, and that in a couple of years, we can cash him in like Brunell, Hasselback, or Brooks. Maybe the same for Flynn, but I see him as more of a Zeke Bratkowski/Doug Peterson kind of Packer.
          Snake was thinking the same thing as ARod is our cash cow at QB and barring injury is the far long-term answer, yet both these guys are totally different breeds of QB's. Snake loved the Brohm pick, but wow that guy REALLY disappointed me, but alas, he may turn out to be gold to step in if ARod gets hurt.

          Flynn is a crafty, smart SOB that may last for a decade in the league like the Detmer boys. I like him and hope to keep him like a Doug Peterson for a decade too.

          Brohm most likely (has too much talent being the top high school and college prospect at various times) will be our Hasselbeck and have a few good preseasons and get us a good pick and be a starter elsewhere.

          Regardless, hopefully we hold onto Flynn as he has borderline physical talent, yet looks to be a steady backup for years if we can keep him. Love the guy!!
          Snake's Twitter comments would be LEGENDARY.........if I was ugly or gave a shit about Twitter.

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Partial
              Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.
              Did you read what Snake said? Who's "you guys"? Brohm will be fine as most QB's take time to develop and Brohm will get us a first or second round pick in a few years....Or do you think Brohm will be OUR starting QB? Please elaborate..... Snake is dying to hear this...
              Snake's Twitter comments would be LEGENDARY.........if I was ugly or gave a shit about Twitter.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SnakeLH2006
                Originally posted by Partial
                Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.
                Did you read what Snake said? Who's "you guys"? Brohm will be fine as most QB's take time to develop and Brohm will get us a first or second round pick in a few years....Or do you think Brohm will be OUR starting QB? Please elaborate..... Snake is dying to hear this...
                I wasn't responding to you. What?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Partial
                  Originally posted by SnakeLH2006
                  Originally posted by Partial
                  Do you guys remember how horrible Rodgers looked in his first two seasons? It's far too early to develop an opinion on Brohm. I'm sure he'll be fine. MM is a great QB coach.
                  Did you read what Snake said? Who's "you guys"? Brohm will be fine as most QB's take time to develop and Brohm will get us a first or second round pick in a few years....Or do you think Brohm will be OUR starting QB? Please elaborate..... Snake is dying to hear this...
                  I wasn't responding to you. What?
                  That's fair, but you being the Charter founder of the anti-Arod train, do you feel Brohm may replace ARod at starter at some point? I thought that was where you were going, is all.
                  Snake's Twitter comments would be LEGENDARY.........if I was ugly or gave a shit about Twitter.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Probably not. Way too soon to tell. There is absolutely nothing to support that at this point.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK Partial.

                      A rational statement regarding quarterbacks.

                      At least you are heading down back towards earth.

                      Every long journey starts with the first step.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm looking forward to seeing Brohm and Flynn perform this preseason. Rodgers had a couple big preseasons, leading the way into last years impressive showing.

                        Now it's these guys turn. McCarthy has coached Montana, Gannon, Favre, Delhomme, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers.

                        Montana learned from Walsh. McCarthy probably learned from Montanta. Favre learned from Holmgren. McCarthy taught Favre and Favre probably taught McCarthy a few tricks. Delhomme, Gannon, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers were at least partially developed by McCarthy. All seemed to move on to big things during or shortly after their time with McCarthy.

                        These two young guys are going to get every chance at success. One thing we take for granted from Rodgers is that he does everything right, by habit. Brohm and Flynn are developing great habits right now. The next time we see them play, they're going to have a year of shaping from a proven coach and they're both talented kids. There is no guarantee, but I think the Packers is a great situation for any young QB. Flynn has a winners savvy (winning a championship at LSU) and Brohm has lead some winning teams at Louiville. If the winners spirit/talent is there, it's going to show in this offense.
                        Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If I had to guess at Brohm and Flynn's development into NFL ready players, I'd say this.


                          Year 1 - Not ready, at all (complex offense, not great defense, just not ready)

                          Year 2 - Good fundementals, decent understanding, can win with a great surrounding cast (similar to Flacco's rookie campaign where he was asked, "don't lose the game". Maybe a little better than that because this offense is more complex so, by nature, they have to be better than what Flacco was asked to do)

                          Year 3 - Blast off. Fundamentals should be habit. No thinking what so ever. One of McCarthy's strong points seems to be teaching breaking down defenses. By year 3, these guys (if they're legit) should be able to quickly get to the line and understand what they're going to do out of all their concepts within seconds. They should understand what the denfese is probably trying to do and what they might try to do in that couple second span before the ball is even snapped. When the ball snaps they should be dissecting what the defense chose to do (already knowing it could only be a couple things), instead of counting their steps and wondering where the receivers are going to run.
                          Formerly known as JustinHarrell.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JustinHarrell
                            I'm looking forward to seeing Brohm and Flynn perform this preseason. Rodgers had a couple big preseasons, leading the way into last years impressive showing.

                            Now it's these guys turn. McCarthy has coached Montana, Gannon, Favre, Delhomme, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers.

                            Montana learned from Walsh. McCarthy probably learned from Montanta. Favre learned from Holmgren. McCarthy taught Favre and Favre probably taught McCarthy a few tricks. Delhomme, Gannon, Hasselbeck, Bulger and Rodgers were at least partially developed by McCarthy. All seemed to move on to big things during or shortly after their time with McCarthy.

                            These two young guys are going to get every chance at success. One thing we take for granted from Rodgers is that he does everything right, by habit. Brohm and Flynn are developing great habits right now. The next time we see them play, they're going to have a year of shaping from a proven coach and they're both talented kids. There is no guarantee, but I think the Packers is a great situation for any young QB. Flynn has a winners savvy (winning a championship at LSU) and Brohm has lead some winning teams at Louiville. If the winners spirit/talent is there, it's going to show in this offense.
                            McCarthy learned from Paul Hackett. Paul was Montana's first QB coach under Walsh. Hackett moved on to be the first branch on the Walsh tree and Holmgren took his place as QB coach.

                            Paul never made it to head coach in the NFL, though he's been OC a number of times. Hackett and McCarthy hooked up at Pit, then McCarthy followed Paul when he took over as OC under Marty S. in KC, MM was the QB coach.

                            This explains why MM's WCO philosophy is different than the Holmgren/Seifert branches, it is off another branch, the Hackett branch, that split earlier from Walsh, MM is the first in that line to make it to HC.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KYPack
                              OK Partial.

                              A rational statement regarding quarterbacks.

                              At least you are heading down back towards earth.

                              Every long journey starts with the first step.
                              I would say that my arguments regarding quarterbacks are quite rational and devoid of homerism.

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