VICK DA GREAT

[KYPack]

Mobb, if you don't understand why you would take a drink at a Hotel or airport bar, there in nothing I can do to help you.

The proper time to drink at a hotel bar?

When you are near it.

[mraynrand]

Absolutely nothing wrong with an adult having a drink or two. Actually I condone it. Vick's charges had nothing to do with alcohol. Non-story.

Don't his troubles all stem from an inability to make good decisions? His probation terms contain language about alcohol use(via PFT from ESPN):

Paragraph 7 of the Standard Conditions of Supervision prohibit Vick from "excessive use of alcohol." But paragraph 3 of the Special Conditions of Supervision require Vick to participate in drug testing aimed at determining whether he has "reverted to the use of drugs or alcohol."

So, in one breath, Vick is prevented from engaging in "excessive use" of alcohol. On the other hand, he agrees to submit to testing for the purposes of finding out whether he has "reverted to the use of . . . alcohol."

While confusing, it would seem wise to forgo the use of alcohol to be safe. He doesn't have much margin for error left. This would seem to indicate a person who is changing just enough to get by.

BINGO....obviously alcohol impairs judgement, thus ron mexico....

thers time and place for things too; now is NOT the time

I hear that Vick didn't wipe his ass properly either. The horror. THE HORROR!

[pbmax]

I hear that Vick didn't wipe his ass properly either. The horror. THE HORROR!

If we only knew the true consequences to society from a lack of hygiene.

If you are out on probation, you abide by the terms of the probation. If people have put careers on the line for you to return, you stay on the straight and narrow.

[Patler]

Michael Vick.....the saga continues. Nothing wrong with having a drink at a bar, unless of course you happen to be on probation. It's more than just the strict limitations of his probation. It's more than just the perception of Vick's actions. The last thing Vick needs right now is to be in a bar with some half-drunk jerk filled with bottle courage confronting him about his past. Things can happen quickly in a bar, and none of them would be good for Vick.

Going to dog races is perfectly legal. Does anyone think it would be wise for Vick to go to one?

At this point it isn't just about what is legal for Vick to do, or just about what he is prohibited from doing. It's more about what he should and shouldn't do to avoid any confrontations, any "scenes" and to repair his image and his position with the NFL. He should be well away from the boundaries of what he can and can not do.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Absolutely nothing wrong with an adult having a drink or two. Actually I condone it. Vick's charges had nothing to do with alcohol. Non-story.

Don't his troubles all stem from an inability to make good decisions? His probation terms contain language about alcohol use(via PFT from ESPN):

Paragraph 7 of the Standard Conditions of Supervision prohibit Vick from "excessive use of alcohol." But paragraph 3 of the Special Conditions of Supervision require Vick to participate in drug testing aimed at determining whether he has "reverted to the use of drugs or alcohol."

So, in one breath, Vick is prevented from engaging in "excessive use" of alcohol. On the other hand, he agrees to submit to testing for the purposes of finding out whether he has "reverted to the use of . . . alcohol."

While confusing, it would seem wise to forgo the use of alcohol to be safe. He doesn't have much margin for error left. This would seem to indicate a person who is changing just enough to get by.

BINGO....obviously alcohol impairs judgement, thus ron mexico....

thers time and place for things too; now is NOT the time

Having a drink in an airport bar is hardly an “excessive use of alcohol”. Actually, it’s pretty typical behavior for a normal person. Go to the airport, get their early to make sure you have time to get through security, wait for the reliably delayed plane (unless of course you’re running late), have a drink and chat with some fellow travelers to pass the time. Wait for your layover, have a drink and chat with some fellow travelers to pass the time.

I see NO reports that Vick was drunk or disorderly. I also have not seen any reports that say alcohol played ANY part in his Ron Mexico fiasco. Anyone who is making his having a drink in an airport into an issue is nitpicking ridiculously. The man just got out of prison, let him have a drink in peace.

[mraynrand]

Michael Vick.....the saga continues. Nothing wrong with having a drink at a bar, unless of course you happen to be on probation. It's more than just the strict limitations of his probation. It's more than just the perception of Vick's actions. The last thing Vick needs right now is to be in a bar with some half-drunk jerk filled with bottle courage confronting him about his past. Things can happen quickly in a bar, and none of them would be good for Vick.

Going to dog races is perfectly legal. Does anyone think it would be wise for Vick to go to one?

At this point it isn't just about what is legal for Vick to do, or just about what he is prohibited from doing. It's more about what he should and shouldn't do to avoid any confrontations, any "scenes" and to repair his image and his position with the NFL. He should be well away from the boundaries of what he can and can not do.

Maybe he can stay in a hermetically sealed box when not on the football field, just in case someone tries to talk to him and possibly draw him into an armed conflict that will require the intervention of the U.S. Marines to resolve.

[mraynrand]

I hear that Vick didn't wipe his ass properly either. The horror. THE HORROR!

If we only knew the true consequences to society from a lack of hygiene.

If you are out on probation, you abide by the terms of the probation. If people have put careers on the line for you to return, you stay on the straight and narrow.

God help us all if Vick goes off the straight and narrow!

[Patler]

Michael Vick.....the saga continues. Nothing wrong with having a drink at a bar, unless of course you happen to be on probation. It's more than just the strict limitations of his probation. It's more than just the perception of Vick's actions. The last thing Vick needs right now is to be in a bar with some half-drunk jerk filled with bottle courage confronting him about his past. Things can happen quickly in a bar, and none of them would be good for Vick.

Going to dog races is perfectly legal. Does anyone think it would be wise for Vick to go to one?

At this point it isn't just about what is legal for Vick to do, or just about what he is prohibited from doing. It's more about what he should and shouldn't do to avoid any confrontations, any "scenes" and to repair his image and his position with the NFL. He should be well away from the boundaries of what he can and can not do.

Maybe he can stay in a hermetically sealed box when not on the football field, just in case someone tries to talk to him and possibly draw him into an armed conflict that will require the intervention of the U.S. Marines to resolve.

Get serious. What was his NEED to have that drink at that time in that place? If he wants a drink he can get it at other, less public places at other times. If he needed the drink, he has other problems. Bad things happen to athletes at drinking establishments with too great of a frequency for Vick to take that chance this soon. Its just dumb. Remember, he has NOT been reinstated yet to play. He can practice and play preseason games. He is not yet reinstated for any of the regular season. If I were him I would limit my public appearances to what I have to do and to what projects favorably on me. I would avoid anything that is optional if it might shine unfavorably on me, and a bar is one of those places.

I will ask again, does anyone think it would be a good idea for him to go to a dog track just to relax? I think it would be absolutely stupid for him to do it.

[Patler]

I hear that Vick didn't wipe his ass properly either. The horror. THE HORROR!

If we only knew the true consequences to society from a lack of hygiene.

If you are out on probation, you abide by the terms of the probation. If people have put careers on the line for you to return, you stay on the straight and narrow.

God help us all if Vick goes off the straight and narrow!

Who is talking about how it would affect "us all". This is about how it might affect Vick and his future. It wouldn't affect me one bit if he goes out and gets another fighting dog. I would need no help from God if he did that either. However, it would not be a wise thing for Vick.

[mraynrand]

Michael Vick.....the saga continues. Nothing wrong with having a drink at a bar, unless of course you happen to be on probation. It's more than just the strict limitations of his probation. It's more than just the perception of Vick's actions. The last thing Vick needs right now is to be in a bar with some half-drunk jerk filled with bottle courage confronting him about his past. Things can happen quickly in a bar, and none of them would be good for Vick.

Going to dog races is perfectly legal. Does anyone think it would be wise for Vick to go to one?

At this point it isn't just about what is legal for Vick to do, or just about what he is prohibited from doing. It's more about what he should and shouldn't do to avoid any confrontations, any "scenes" and to repair his image and his position with the NFL. He should be well away from the boundaries of what he can and can not do.

Maybe he can stay in a hermetically sealed box when not on the football field, just in case someone tries to talk to him and possibly draw him into an armed conflict that will require the intervention of the U.S. Marines to resolve.

Get serious. What was his NEED to have that drink at that time in that place? If he wants a drink he can get it at other, less public places at other times. If he needed the drink, he has other problems. Bad things happen to athletes at drinking establishments with too great of a frequency for Vick to take that chance this soon. Its just dumb. Remember, he has NOT been reinstated yet to play. He can practice and play preseason games. He is not yet reinstated for any of the regular season. If I were him I would limit my public appearances to what I have to do and to what projects favorably on me. I would avoid anything that is optional if it might shine unfavorably on me, and a bar is one of those places.

I will ask again, does anyone think it would be a good idea for him to go to a dog track just to relax? I think it would be absolutely stupid for him to do it.

I'll ask you: Maybe there was something else going on there, but it looks like a guy is having a drink in a bar. If he were a recovering alcoholic or a guy who killed someone in a DUI, yeah it would be closer to Vick taking in the dog races. I see apples and oranges here. I'd like to know what your guidelines are for Vick - no public alcohol consumption? Can he eat out in a restaurant? Should he be seen at all? Do you have a list of approved establishments? What drinks can he have? How are you going to determine whether he NEEDS a drink or WANTS a drink? Is he an alcoholic? What am I missing here?

[mraynrand]

I hear that Vick didn't wipe his ass properly either. The horror. THE HORROR!

If we only knew the true consequences to society from a lack of hygiene.

If you are out on probation, you abide by the terms of the probation. If people have put careers on the line for you to return, you stay on the straight and narrow.

God help us all if Vick goes off the straight and narrow!

Who is talking about how it would affect "us all". This is about how it might affect Vick and his future. It wouldn't affect me one bit if he goes out and gets another fighting dog. I would need no help from God if he did that either. However, it would not be a wise thing for Vick.

Ya think?

I don't think anyone put their career on the line for Vick. If he fucks up, he gets punted from the team and likely goes back to prison. He got a second chance and now it's up to him.

[Patler]

I don't think anyone put their career on the line for Vick. If he fucks up, he gets punted from the team and likely goes back to prison. He got a second chance and now it's up to him.

I thought we were discussing whether it was reasonable for Tony Dungy to have chastised him for it? Wasn't that the nature of the first post about this?

Dungy is there as Vick's mentor of sorts to guide him through this so he doesn't screw up. If I were in Dungy's shoes, I would tell Vick to stay the heck out of bars for the time being. It's not worth the risk. If you were in Dungy's shoes, would you tell him, "Sure, go have a drink in the airport bar. No problem." ?????

[mraynrand]

I don't think anyone put their career on the line for Vick. If he fucks up, he gets punted from the team and likely goes back to prison. He got a second chance and now it's up to him.

I thought we were discussing whether it was reasonable for Tony Dungy to have chastised him for it? Wasn't that the nature of the first post about this?

Dungy is there as Vick's mentor of sorts to guide him through this so he doesn't screw up. If I were in Dungy's shoes, I would tell Vick to stay the heck out of bars for the time being. It's not worth the risk. If you were in Dungy's shoes, would you tell him, "Sure, go have a drink in the airport bar. No problem." ?????

I walked in in the middle of the covo. I don't think Vick needs to consult Dungy before having a drink in the airport bar. He might want to check with him on what paperback book to buy and read on the plane (no Dean Koontz). Also, take your own headphones and don't buy those cheap-ass earplugs. And whatever you do, don't watch that Renee Zelweger movie. It sucks.

[pbmax]

I hear that Vick didn't wipe his ass properly either. The horror. THE HORROR!

If we only knew the true consequences to society from a lack of hygiene.

If you are out on probation, you abide by the terms of the probation. If people have put careers on the line for you to return, you stay on the straight and narrow.

God help us all if Vick goes off the straight and narrow!

Who is talking about how it would affect "us all". This is about how it might affect Vick and his future. It wouldn't affect me one bit if he goes out and gets another fighting dog. I would need no help from God if he did that either. However, it would not be a wise thing for Vick.

Ya think?

I don't think anyone put their career on the line for Vick. If he fucks up, he gets punted from the team and likely goes back to prison. He got a second chance and now it's up to him.

Goodell, Lurie and Reid all have taken a substantial risk. Lurie especially as it will be the value of his franchise that takes the hit. He has brought some of it on his own head by the "pro-active" talk, but he risks a business' reputation none-the-less.

Goodell has risked his reputation concerning the League's Conduct Policy. That policy is Goodell's biggest move as commissioner and he has had a pretty heavy hammer so far. Vick got about the best deal possible considering the jail time. Goodell will take the brunt of blame if this goes bad. He rules on these cases by himself and need not follow any precedent not abide by any appeal process. The lasting effect of letting Vick back in, if it goes bad, lands right in his lap.

Going back to dog fighting is only one possible way for this to go bad for Vick. Patler has listed several others.

[Patler]

I don't think anyone put their career on the line for Vick. If he fucks up, he gets punted from the team and likely goes back to prison. He got a second chance and now it's up to him.

I thought we were discussing whether it was reasonable for Tony Dungy to have chastised him for it? Wasn't that the nature of the first post about this?

Dungy is there as Vick's mentor of sorts to guide him through this so he doesn't screw up. If I were in Dungy's shoes, I would tell Vick to stay the heck out of bars for the time being. It's not worth the risk. If you were in Dungy's shoes, would you tell him, "Sure, go have a drink in the airport bar. No problem." ?????

I walked in in the middle of the covo. I don't think Vick needs to consult Dungy before having a drink in the airport bar. He might want to check with him on what paperback book to buy and read on the plane (no Dean Koontz). Also, take your own headphones and don't buy those cheap-ass earplugs. And whatever you do, don't watch that Renee Zelweger movie. It sucks.

I should have phrased it as a hypothetical for Dungy too, if you are going to be so literal. I'm not suggesting that Vick needs to clear everything with Dungy. That clearly was never my point. But, I would expect Dungy to advise him against the types of activities I mentioned if asked, and after the fact I would expect Dungy to tell him he took a foolish and unnecessary risk, just as Dungy apparently did. I certainly do not and would not criticize Dungy for doing either.

No one is putting their neck or job on the line for him, that is true, but Dungy is certainly taking a bit of a PR risk in backing Vick as he has. He doesn't have to do it. The Eagles hope to get a return for their "investment" in Vick. Dungy does not have a personal gain motive.