VICK DA GREAT

[Scott Campbell]

Another aspect to Vick that hasn't really been brought up much...

There is a very real possibility that his best football is ahead of him, not behind him.

Vick was always a hardhead that didn't take to coaching well, full of himself, led a questionable life outside the game, and had questionable focus.

He was also the most mobile and athletic QB to ever play the game and had a rocket for an arm.

Everything was taken away from him and he's had two years to think about it. And he needs it.

The very real possibility exists that Vick's hardhead/full of himself aspect has been completely humbled and he becomes extremely coachable, that outside the game he is going to be a dedicated good citizen and gives back to the community (namely be a huge voice against dogfighting), and that his focus on the game will be far greater than it ever has been before.

Doesn't hurt that Dungy is currently his personal adviser and life coach.

In two years Vick could easily be slowing a little (but still as slippery as anybody in the pocket), but a far better passer than he has ever been before.

While possible, I don't think you can assume it'll go down like that. It could end up just like us waiting for Robert Fergeson to have his breakout year.


Having said that, and looking at our QB depth, I'd take a flyer on him.

[Waldo]

Dogfighting has changed since Vick went to prison. On a large organized scale it has declined. On a small scale (not even for gambling purposes, but street cred of having the most BA dog) it has drastically increased, both the direct result of Vick's case.

I doubt that very much. They may have gone more underground, but the simple arrest of Vick would not alter something that deeply rooted. I have to believe that there are a lot bigger fish in dog fighting than Vick was, and I would be surprised if they are scared off because of his arrest.

I just saw an investigative journalism piece on it recently, on Animal planet I believe.

A lot of local cops didn't even know much about it or what to look for until the Vick case came around. The increased awareness led to more and more and bigger and bigger busts. Concerned citizens ratted on people more. The award for leading to a dogfighting arrest doubled. States changed their laws, prior to his arrest dogfighting was a misdemeanor almost everywhere, afterwards most made dogfighting a felony as a direct result of the Vick case, as Vick went to jail on gambling because dogfighting wasn't a felony, without the provable gambling Vicks sentence would have been much less.

Vick's case was a major blow to large organized dogfighting. It still exists, but not nearly as big as it was a few years ago.

On the flipside, fighting dogs (owning the top dog actually and proving it) earned a level of coolness with thug culture that it didn't have before the Vick case. A negative side effect of it.

[Patler]

I just saw an investigative journalism piece on it recently, on Animal planet I believe.

A lot of local cops didn't even know much about it or what to look for until the Vick case came around. The increased awareness led to more and more and bigger and bigger busts. Concerned citizens ratted on people more. The award for leading to a dogfighting arrest doubled. States changed their laws, prior to his arrest dogfighting was a misdemeanor almost everywhere, afterwards most made dogfighting a felony as a direct result of the Vick case, as Vick went to jail on gambling because dogfighting wasn't a felony, without the provable gambling Vicks sentence would have been much less.

Vick's case was a major blow to large organized dogfighting. It still exists, but not nearly as big as it was a few years ago.

On the flipside, fighting dogs (owning the top dog actually and proving it) earned a level of coolness with thug culture that it didn't have before the Vick case. A negative side effect of it.

If its true, it can just as easily be a very temporary thing. More than likely, it was simply an attempt at good press to increase public awareness and perhaps scare off some low rung entrants. I suspect it will be like the battle against drugs, major busts that do some good for a while, but soon we are right back where we started. Big guys don't scare off, and if they are captured there is always someone ready to take their place.

[SkinBasket]

and i wouldnt be surprised in more black folk support vick than white folk; i think we are much more forgiving of black folk regardless of the crime because to not do so would paint us as some kind of "Uncle Tom" siding with the whites and an outcast of the mob mentality of contemporary black society (like Jesus)

Fixed.

[MadScientist]

I'm beginning to seriously question whether PETA will actually protest him.

It would be inane and idiotic for any sort of organized PETA anti-Vick rally to take place. Cut off your nose to spite your face?

You're post was reasonable, but you forget that PETA is inane and idiotic. They will protest anything Vick does to draw attention (read $$$) to themselves and pretend like they have some sort of legitimacy.

[KYPack]

I'm beginning to seriously question whether PETA will actually protest him.

It would be inane and idiotic for any sort of organized PETA anti-Vick rally to take place. Cut off your nose to spite your face?

You're post was reasonable, but you forget that PETA is inane and idiotic. They will protest anything Vick does to draw attention (read $$$) to themselves and pretend like they have some sort of legitimacy.

They will get all over this, Waldo.

I'm involved with several animal rescue places. Some of the younger people in those shelters are PETA people (Kinda stupid, PETA is against pets, BTW) They were circulating Anti-Vick information for a very long time now. There will be protests at the NFL games if Vick plays in 'em & PETA will raise holyt hell over the whole deal.

I'm very anti-PETA. Donate to the Humane Society. Great people who work very hard for peanuts, not a bunch of grandstanding buttholes like PETA.

[Rastak]

I'm beginning to seriously question whether PETA will actually protest him.

It would be inane and idiotic for any sort of organized PETA anti-Vick rally to take place. Cut off your nose to spite your face?

You're post was reasonable, but you forget that PETA is inane and idiotic. They will protest anything Vick does to draw attention (read $$$) to themselves and pretend like they have some sort of legitimacy.

They will get all over this, Waldo.

I'm involved with several animal rescue places. Some of the younger people in those shelters are PETA people (Kinda stupid, PETA is against pets, BTW) They were circulating Anti-Vick information for a very long time now. There will be protests at the NFL games if Vick plays in 'em & PETA will raise holyt hell over the whole deal.

I'm very anti-PETA. Donate to the Humane Society. Great people who work very hard for peanuts, not a bunch of grandstanding buttholes like PETA.

Nice post KY.

[BEARMAN]

" IF " he takes the correct path, and " IF " he acts accordingly, then yes, he can play. BUT, " IF " he messes up even only little bit, he should be GONE, never allowed to play in the NFL again ! IMO.

[ThunderDan]

" IF " he takes the correct path, and " IF " he acts accordingly, then yes, he can play. BUT, " IF " he messes up even only little bit, he should be GONE, never allowed to play in the NFL again ! IMO.

I agree with BEARMAN.

[MOBB DEEP]

and i wouldnt be surprised in more black folk support vick than white folk; i think we are much more forgiving of black folk regardless of the crime because to not do so would paint us as some kind of "Uncle Tom" siding with the whites and an outcast of the mob mentality of contemporary black society (like Jesus)

Fixed.

he he...took the words right out my mouth

not...

u think u know something about black culture huh??

trust me, we are NOT homogenous

as the late great malcolm x said, some africans/black folk are more european than the european himself

mental slavery that outlasted chattel slavery

ive even been told i "talk white" b/c im upwardly mobile and well-read; despite the fact that i champion the philosophy of the Black Panthers and brother malcolm

[MJZiggy]

You "talk white" but you don't respect Malcolm X enough to capitalize his name? Curious that Africans is not but Black Panthers is capitalized, though...

[mraynrand]

and i wouldnt be surprised in more black folk support vick than white folk; i think we are much more forgiving of black folk regardless of the crime because to not do so would paint us as some kind of "Uncle Tom" siding with the whites and an outcast of the mob mentality of contemporary black society (like Jesus)

Fixed.

he he...took the words right out my mouth

not...

u think u know something about black culture huh??

trust me, we are NOT homogenous

as the late great malcolm x said, some africans/black folk are more european than the european himself

mental slavery that outlasted chattel slavery

ive even been told i "talk white" b/c im upwardly mobile and well-read; despite the fact that i champion the philosophy of the Black Panthers and brother malcolm

yet you write deliberately in some sort of quasi-ebonic style that ought to offend yourself.

[SkinBasket]

and i wouldnt be surprised in more black folk support vick than white folk; i think we are much more forgiving of black folk regardless of the crime because to not do so would paint us as some kind of "Uncle Tom" siding with the whites and an outcast of the mob mentality of contemporary black society (like Jesus)

Fixed.

he he...took the words right out my mouth

not...

u think u know something about black culture huh??

trust me, we are NOT homogenous

as the late great malcolm x said, some africans/black folk are more european than the european himself

mental slavery that outlasted chattel slavery

ive even been told i "talk white" b/c im upwardly mobile and well-read; despite the fact that i champion the philosophy of the Black Panthers and brother malcolm

Black culture isn't nearly as mysterious as you want to make it out to be. Perpetuating the myth that somehow non-blacks don't know what it's like to be black and therefore cannot possibly understand black culture is about as useful as claiming you're well read, but expressing yourself like a 3rd grader. Any culture can be studied and understood by applying the emotions and experiences that all humans share. Unless there are emotions reserved only for black Americans that you're all hiding from the rest of the world?

Maybe it's time some people stopped hiding behind their race as a means to explain thoughts and behavior that would otherwise be unacceptable or unreasonable and started expressing themselves in a meaningful way that allows them to share themselves, their beliefs, and experiences with the rest of the world. Maybe they would learn more about themselves than they thought they could.

I don't think black America is by any means homogeneous. However, deviation (sexual, political, racial, social, etc...) from the collective contemporary culture oftentimes leads to exile from the "black community." The notion exists and is promoted regularly that if a black person acts in accordance with their own self interest instead of in the supposed interest of black people as a whole, they are labeled a sell out, an Uncle Tom, a race traitor - instead of simply being an individual with beliefs and self interests that lie outside the mainstream of black Americans.

Just out of curiosity, what is it exactly, or generally, about the philosophy of the Black Panthers and brother malcolm that you champion?

[MOBB DEEP]

You "talk white" but you don't respect Malcolm X enough to capitalize his name? Curious that Africans is not but Black Panthers is capitalized, though...

MJ, the way i type anyone or any orgs name does not represent my feelings about them/it and their importance! its a sports forum...i have the worse grammar on packerrats b/c of laziness or irrelavance

glad to see you love malcolm tho

[SkinBasket]

You "talk white" but you don't respect Malcolm X enough to capitalize his name? Curious that Africans is not but Black Panthers is capitalized, though...

MJ, the way i type anyone or any orgs name does not represent my feelings about them/it and their importance! its a sports forum...i have the worse grammar on packerrats b/c of laziness or irrelavance

glad to see you love malcolm tho

If you don't take your methods and means of communication seriously, how do you expect others to do so?