Vince Young Potentially on Trading Block?

[Partial]

Do you really think AJ Hawk is going to come out and say the offense wasn't good enough and pass the buck?

Of course he wouldn't.

He would rather blame the defense...the guys he plays with, the guys he spends most of his time with.

I see, manning up and telling the truth is now passing the buck.

Yet, if Arod said the defense has really improved this year or sucked last year or said the defense wasn't the problem....you would say he was passing the buck or not manning up.

God, help your employer.

My employer is quite satisfied..

If you really truly believe a character guy is going to go to the media and blame the O when they have/had A) an offensive coach, B) a new quarterback... I simply don't know what to think.. No way will that ever, ever, ever happen. Some crazy guy might do it, but AJ Hawk? Nah..

It's motivating his teammates and challenging them to do better. He didn't call out a specific person the way that calling out the O would be calling out the QB (since you said he's the leader of the team)

[Chevelle2]

If you really truly believe a character guy is going to go to the media and blame the O

Brett Favre after Rodgers was drafted: "I was hoping we would get some defensive help" on NFL LIVE

[Partial]

If you really truly believe a character guy is going to go to the media and blame the O

Brett Favre after Rodgers was drafted: "I was hoping we would get some defensive help" on NFL LIVE

I don't see at all how that is the same thing.

Favre is a veteran, they spent a #1 on a 3rd stringer for the year essentially. I'd be a little irritated, too.

With that said, I don't think Favre should have said that. I still don't think it's necessarily comparable, though.

[TheCheese]

Do you really think AJ Hawk is going to come out and say the offense wasn't good enough and pass the buck?

Of course he wouldn't.

He would rather blame the defense...the guys he plays with, the guys he spends most of his time with.

I see, manning up and telling the truth is now passing the buck.

Yet, if Arod said the defense has really improved this year or sucked last year or said the defense wasn't the problem....you would say he was passing the buck or not manning up.

God, help your employer.

My employer is quite satisfied..

If you really truly believe a character guy is going to go to the media and blame the O when they have/had A) an offensive coach, B) a new quarterback... I simply don't know what to think.. No way will that ever, ever, ever happen. Some crazy guy might do it, but AJ Hawk? Nah..

It's motivating his teammates and challenging them to do better. He didn't call out a specific person the way that calling out the O would be calling out the QB (since you said he's the leader of the team)

You are missing the damn point. He isn't holding anything back because hes telling the truth. The defense was the reason why we were 6-10 last year. That is what hes stating. Hes not going to blame the offense because the offense wasn't the main reason why our record was what it was. Do you understand that point? How the fuck can he blame the offense when it was ranked 5? Fucking 5 while his unit was ranked 22nd.

[Partial]

So, if the offense is ranked #1 because it scores 10000 points in two games and wins, but doesn't score any points the rest of the season, is that a good offense?

Please answer the question.

[TheCheese]

MIN 19 @ GB 24
GB 48 @ DET 25
DAL 27 @ GB 16
GB 21 @ TB 30
ATL 27 @ GB 24
GB 27 @ SEA 17
IND 14 @ GB 34
GB 16 @ TEN 19
GB 27 @ MIN 28
CHI 3 @ GB 37
GB 29 @ NO 51
CAR 35 @ GB 31
HOU 24 @ GB 21
GB 16 @ JAC 20
GB 17 @ CHI 20
DET 21 @ GB 31

Looks pretty fucking consistent to me. Your point is invalid.

[MJZiggy]

So, if the offense is ranked #1 because it scores 10000 points in two games and wins, but doesn't score any points the rest of the season, is that a good offense?

Please answer the question.

There's logic that MIGHT apply to the Lions this year. It has nothing to do with reality for the Packers. The Packers are not a bad team. Top 5 is not a bad offense and 4K yards is NOT a bad season for a QB EVEN FOR A VETERAN. Rodgers did his job. He played the game he was asked to play and did it very well. If (Lombardi forbid) he were to blow for the next 4-5 years, you might have an argument, but at this point, you don't. He did his job and did it well.

Let's look at your question another way. If the defense is ranked 25th and gives up 10,000 late points, but holds great in 2 games, is that an acceptable defense. Hmmm...wonder why they changed the whole defensive scheme and fired the defensive coaches, but left the offense pretty much alone. Chew on that for a little while. Actually THINK about that.

[Partial]

MIN 19 @ GB 24
GB 48 @ DET 25
DAL 27 @ GB 16
GB 21 @ TB 30
ATL 27 @ GB 24
GB 27 @ SEA 17
IND 14 @ GB 34
GB 16 @ TEN 19
GB 27 @ MIN 28
CHI 3 @ GB 37
GB 29 @ NO 51
CAR 35 @ GB 31
HOU 24 @ GB 21
GB 16 @ JAC 20
GB 17 @ CHI 20
DET 21 @ GB 31

Looks pretty fucking consistent to me. Your point is invalid.

And thats why you're not an actuarary I don't see much consistency at all!!!

But thats really stupid and short sighted...

Second Minnesota game that offense scored a TD early and was TERRIBLE the entire rest of the game. If not for the D and Special Teams making HUGE plays we didn't have any business being in the game. How can you possibly argue the D is what let the O down in this game.

21 points against the Texans... pretty underwhelming....

16 points against Jacksonville.... awful... Jacksonville was not very good this year and we couldn't take advantage of this....

17 points against Chicago.... awful....

16 points against Tennessee.... awful... given that we were sustaining some pretty decent drives and couldn't convert

It is these five games that ultimately killed the season. You cannot blame the D exclusively when the offense is putting up so few points.

The D did a pretty damn good job in every one of these games when looking at the game as a whole except against the Texans, where they were awful from a yardage perspective, but still realistically kept it close enough that we had an opportunity to win it at the end, which is all you can really ask for when your an offensive centric team. This isn't a team with a billion dollars and draft picks invested into the D. It is unreasonable to expect them to be perfect week in and week out.

[Fritz]

Do you really think AJ Hawk is going to come out and say the offense wasn't good enough and pass the buck?

Of course he wouldn't.

He would rather blame the defense...the guys he plays with, the guys he spends most of his time with.

I see, manning up and telling the truth is now passing the buck.

Yet, if Arod said the defense has really improved this year or sucked last year or said the defense wasn't the problem....you would say he was passing the buck or not manning up.

God, help your employer.

My employer is quite satisfied..

If you really truly believe a character guy is going to go to the media and blame the O when they have/had A) an offensive coach, B) a new quarterback... I simply don't know what to think.. No way will that ever, ever, ever happen. Some crazy guy might do it, but AJ Hawk? Nah..

It's motivating his teammates and challenging them to do better. He didn't call out a specific person the way that calling out the O would be calling out the QB (since you said he's the leader of the team)

I see Partial's emploer lying in bed, leaning back against the headboard, taking a long drag on a Lucky Strike . . .

[Partial]

There's logic that MIGHT apply to the Lions this year. It has nothing to do with reality for the Packers. The Packers are not a bad team. Top 5 is not a bad offense and 4K yards is NOT a bad season for a QB EVEN FOR A VETERAN. Rodgers did his job. He played the game he was asked to play and did it very well. If (Lombardi forbid) he were to blow for the next 4-5 years, you might have an argument, but at this point, you don't. He did his job and did it well.

Let's look at your question another way. If the defense is ranked 25th and gives up 10,000 late points, but holds great in 2 games, is that an acceptable defense. Hmmm...wonder why they changed the whole defensive scheme and fired the defensive coaches, but left the offense pretty much alone. Chew on that for a little while. Actually THINK about that.

As I've stated, the Packers are inconsistent on offense, and to quote Katy Perry have been either "Hot or they're cold"?

They changed the D because you can't go and fire a coach that went to the championship game the year before MM is a good offensive coach, but the offensive performance was not good last year.

In the 'fatal 5' game stretch that ultimately killed the Packers, they gave up...

19, 21, 20, 20, 28.

In those games, we scored x amount of offensive TDs..

1, 1, 3, 1, 2

That's 1.6 touchdowns per game, or 11.2 points from touchdowns in a game. Not very good. Had just one field goal per game been turned into a TD during that stretch, this is a playoff team, and we wouldn't have needed late game heroics from both the offense and defense.

How can you say I don't have an argument when the inconsistent Packers spent a 5 game stretch where they averaged 11.2 points per game from touchdowns... That's beyond awful.

Consequently, during that time, we forced the following turnovers....
2, 0, 4, 3, 0

1.5 forced turnovers per game

During that time, we gave away the following turnovers....

2, 0, 1, 1, 2 with Rodgers playing a role in most of those.

With that said, the defense gave us a +3 turnover ratio, yet we still only managed to score a few points. What gives?!?

Forcing 1.5 turnovers a game is pretty damn good imo.

[HarveyWallbangers]

MIN 19 @ GB 24
GB 48 @ DET 25
DAL 27 @ GB 16
GB 21 @ TB 30
ATL 27 @ GB 24
GB 27 @ SEA 17
IND 14 @ GB 34
GB 16 @ TEN 19
GB 27 @ MIN 28
CHI 3 @ GB 37
GB 29 @ NO 51
CAR 35 @ GB 31
HOU 24 @ GB 21
GB 16 @ JAC 20
GB 17 @ CHI 20
DET 21 @ GB 31

Looks pretty fucking consistent to me. Your point is invalid.

And thats why you're not an actuarary I don't see much consistency at all!!!

Actually, that's pretty damn consistent. The fewest points we scored were 16.

I suppose you like Vince Young's consistency more?

@ JAC 13
IND 20
@ NO 31
ATL 20
@ TB 10
OAK 13
CAR 20
JAC 13
@ DEN 20
@ CIN 6
HOU 28
SD 17
@ KC 26
NYJ 10
@SD 6

In "his" playoff year of 2007 his offenses scored 13 or fewer points in 7 of the 15 games that he was the primary QB. Yeah, I'd say never scoring fewer than 16 is really inconsistent.

[pbmax]

50/50.

And now we have our answer, he must be smoking

[ThunderDan]

16 points against Tennessee.... awful... given that we were sustaining some pretty decent drives and couldn't convert

Apparently you choose to ignore my post. The Packers scored 16 points against a team that averaged 14 points against a game.

These are the points the Tennessee gave up:
10,7,12,17,10,10,21,16,14,14,34,10,9,13,14,23

Only one team had more net yards against the Titans than the Packers. GB netted 390 the NYJ netted 409. A 19 yard difference.

I guess you don't realize how dominant the Titans defense was.

[Partial]

Wow, I put together a well thought out post with actual numbers and Harv da troll as of late completely ignores it to post more north korea style propaganda. I lost a lot of respect for you bangers.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wow, I put together a well thought out post with actual numbers and Harv da troll as of late completely ignores it to post more north korea style propaganda. I lost a lot of respect for you bangers.

Way to make it personally.

BTW, I've never said it was entirely the defense. I'd say it's 10% teams, 20% offense, and 70% defense. If the defense had even been average stopping teams late, the Packers have a winning record.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the offense to have to make two game winning comebacks in the last 6 minutes of games so often. That I blame on the defense. Rodgers did a fantastic job of bringing the Packers back in the second half of the 4th quarter in a lot of games. He just didn't do it much in the last two minutes. Then again, when he did do it, either the defense still gave up a late score (once or twice) or the kicker missed a FG (twice). Many people (probably not Partial still) would look at Rodgers late game heroics differently if the defense had made more stops or Crosby had made one or both of those kicks.

Defenses have an advantage late in those situations. More times than not, the defense will hold late. Just look at Brett Favre's record in a games the Packers trailed by less than a TD in the 4th quarter. Well under .500. Hell, a good offense will score 3 TDs and 1 FG on average in a game, and a team usually has at least 12 possessions. Thus, the rate at which a team scores on a drive is probably somewhere around 25%. For the defense to give up the winning score in 6 of 7 games in the last 6 minutes of a close game is just horrible.