Brutal

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ask anyone who lives in Cleveland about John Elway's comeback ability...

I have no axe to grind, but I would say that part of why someone can write a top ten list like that is because of the length of Brett Favre's career and that his teams were usually in the playoffs or in contention for them. There's just an awful lot of big games to pick from there.

This is true. Favre had some great moments also. I'd say he was pretty average in the clutch in big games. Best regular season QB ever maybe, but he's had enough of these stinkers for me not to rank him in my top 3 QBs. I'd put Elway, Montana, and Unitas. I'd throw Graham in there also, if we are going way back. Brett is in that next group for me--with the likes of Baugh, Starr, Manning, and Brady. I'd put him slightly above the likes of Marino, Staubach, Bradshaw. I'd probably put him at #4 or #5 right now, but Manning and Brady have a solid chance at surpassing him.

[cpk1994]

This just kills me:

"Favre belongs in that exclusive group because no one performed better in the clutch.... Joe Montana was brilliant in Bill Walsh's West Coast offense, but if there's a minute left on the clock and my team needs to go 80 yards for a score, give me Favre."
- Matt Mosley on ESPN.com
Feb 11, 2009

WTF? Brett Favre was a lot of things, but picking him over Montana if you had two minutes left and needed the score? I mean, yes, Favre would be better than Joey Harrington or maybe Phillip Rivers even and I'm not saying he was awful, but he is not the guy you'd pick from any all-time list as the QB to take your team down the field with two minutes left.

Montana would be far and away my first choice. He had this sense of the game, like he was watching it from above. He knew exactly what the situation was at all times, and he seemed to see the whole field. Favre seemed to have that quality at times, then at other times he seemed to freak out a little and force a play that didn't need to be forced.

Based on my own sad history as a Packer fan, Steve Young seemed to be pretty good at the last-minute stuff, too. I think though I have no numbers that Peyton Manning is the type of QB who would be good at this sort of thing.

I'd be curious to hear what other old-time QB's had this quality.

You really shouldn't be suprised about that comment. It comes from a guy at BSPN. I would expet nothing less than someone from there blowing Favre.

I agree with you and would take Montana with 2:00 minutes left also. Montana did it in the Super Bowl. Favre didn't. Case closed.

[Patler]

I really hate this type of discussion because there really is no answer without looking at every big game every one of the individuals ever played. That said, I will make a few comments but won't bother arguing about them. Everyone has their own opinion, and you may agree or disagree with mine. Have at it! My comments:

I can remember no situation at the end of an important game that I felt Starr blew it. If the Packers were not successful, I can't remember ever feeling that Starr was the reason, that he had come up short in his performance. I never worried that he would make a bone head play.

On the other hand, ever since shortly after the turn of the century, I almost expected Favre to fail in a clutch drive at the end of a big game, it had become that commonplace. My family still reminds me of my comment in the Giants playoff game, just before the Packers drive started, when I said Favre would throw an interception. I'm not claiming any great foresight, but that was my attitude about Favre. (It is also why I predicted on here that the Giants would win. I had no faith in Favre in big games anymore.)

I wonder if the players still had as much faith in Favre as the media would have you believe when it came to a game winning drive in a big game?

[Pugger]

I'd put Starr above Favre, frankly. HE played great in the clutch. Starr should be ranked in with the Elways and Montanas of NFL history.

I will say the Falcon playoff game isn't all on BF. I was at that game and if memory serves half of our offensive starters ended up limping off the field one by one that night. It was a truly awful evening. I still steam when I think of Sherman not throwing his red hanky on that muffed punt...

[Packnut]

Dumb

This is the perfect example of football stupidity! Gee, "I'll take Montana with 2 minutes left". DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who would'nt with all the talent and brilliant coach he had.

ANYONE who's going to argue Favre had the same talent around him that Montana did, is an out and out MORON!

Does'nt it stand to reason if you have 2 QB's who are very good, that the one with the most talent around him is going to stand out?

Favre did more with less and that is his legacy. It's something the haters are to stupid to understand although why I don't know. It's not that hard of a concept to fathom.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My family still reminds me of my comment in the Giants playoff game, just before the Packers drive started, when I said Favre would throw an interception. I'm not claiming any great foresight, but that was my attitude about Favre. (It is also why I predicted on here that the Giants would win. I had no faith in Favre in big games anymore.)

I felt the same way. Actually, I had that feeling from the moment I saw the look on Brett's face before the game. I think I told dabootski at the time that I was worried. Totally different look than the week before. Not sure if it was the cold or the moment, but Brett didn't look like somebody who was about to play a great game.

[Patler]

I felt the same way. Actually, I had that feeling from the moment I saw the look on Brett's face before the game. I think I told dabootski at the time that I was worried. Totally different look than the week before. Not sure if it was the cold or the moment, but Brett didn't look like somebody who was about to play a great game.[/quote]

Yup. We discussed that before the game too. He looked like he would rather be anywhere but there, and he kept an almost disinterested look through out the game.

[cpk1994]

I'd put Starr above Favre, frankly. HE played great in the clutch. Starr should be ranked in with the Elways and Montanas of NFL history.

I will say the Falcon playoff game isn't all on BF. I was at that game and if memory serves half of our offensive starters ended up limping off the field one by one that night. It was a truly awful evening. I still steam when I think of Sherman not throwing his red hanky on that muffed punt...

I was steamed about that too. I got even angrier when Sherman proceded to blame the referees for the non-challenge saying they misinformed him instead of taking responsibibilty himself. Form that day I wanted Sherman fired.

[Patler]

Re: Dumb

This is the perfect example of football stupidity! Gee, "I'll take Montana with 2 minutes left". DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who would'nt with all the talent and brilliant coach he had.

ANYONE who's going to argue Favre had the same talent around him that Montana did, is an out and out MORON!

Does'nt it stand to reason if you have 2 QB's who are very good, that the one with the most talent around him is going to stand out?

Favre did more with less and that is his legacy. It's something the haters are to stupid to understand although why I don't know. It's not that hard of a concept to fathom.

I disagree. While it might have an impact on overall results, you can separate the QBs performance from it. The talent of the team didn't cause Favre to make bad decisions in the face of better options, or perform his role poorly. The talent level didn't cause Montana to make good decisions in the face of worse options, or perform his role well.

Plenty of QBs have failed with talented teams. Others have succeeded with not so talented teams.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Dumb

ANYONE who's going to argue Favre had the same talent around him that Montana did, is an out and out MORON!

You've tried this stuff before, and it never goes well for you.

[Gunakor]

Re: Dumb

This is the perfect example of football stupidity! Gee, "I'll take Montana with 2 minutes left". DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who would'nt with all the talent and brilliant coach he had.

ANYONE who's going to argue Favre had the same talent around him that Montana did, is an out and out MORON!

Does'nt it stand to reason if you have 2 QB's who are very good, that the one with the most talent around him is going to stand out?

Favre did more with less and that is his legacy. It's something the haters are to stupid to understand although why I don't know. It's not that hard of a concept to fathom.

Montana had Jerry Rice, something Favre never had, but to out and out say that Montana had far better overall talent around him is a bit of a stretch. Montana never had a TE duo like Chumura and Jackson. He never had a RB quite as good as Ahman Green in his prime (not a knock against Roger Craig, who was also very good). He never had as deep a WR corps as Favre had to finish his tenure here in Green Bay. Favre had weapons. Montana had his go to guy, who was arguably the best ever to play the game, but when you look at his complete list of weapons I don't think top to bottom it was any better than Favre had.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Re: Dumb

This is the perfect example of football stupidity! Gee, "I'll take Montana with 2 minutes left". DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who would'nt with all the talent and brilliant coach he had.

ANYONE who's going to argue Favre had the same talent around him that Montana did, is an out and out MORON!

Does'nt it stand to reason if you have 2 QB's who are very good, that the one with the most talent around him is going to stand out?

Favre did more with less and that is his legacy. It's something the haters are to stupid to understand although why I don't know. It's not that hard of a concept to fathom.

Elway had WAY less talent around him than Favre, and he came through more than Favre. That's why I rank Elway higher. Elway took three average teams to a Super Bowl, and then won two Super Bowls with great teams. Favre won a Super Bowl with a great team and took the Packers to the Super Bowl with a very good team. It isn't a big slap in the face to be called the 5th best QB of all-time. I do get tired of the whining about the offensive players around Favre. He had Sharpe, Brooks, Rison, Freeman, Driver, Walker, and Jennings. He had Keith Jackson, Mark Chmura, Jackie Harris. Bennett was a plodder, but was a winning football player. Levens was solid. Ahman was a stud for most of his time in Green Bay.

[cheesner]

Re: Dumb

This is the perfect example of football stupidity! Gee, "I'll take Montana with 2 minutes left". DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who would'nt with all the talent and brilliant coach he had.

ANYONE who's going to argue Favre had the same talent around him that Montana did, is an out and out MORON!

Does'nt it stand to reason if you have 2 QB's who are very good, that the one with the most talent around him is going to stand out?

Favre did more with less and that is his legacy. It's something the haters are to stupid to understand although why I don't know. It's not that hard of a concept to fathom.

Montana had Jerry Rice, something Favre never had, but to out and out say that Montana had far better overall talent around him is a bit of a stretch. Montana never had a TE duo like Chumura and Jackson. He never had a RB quite as good as Ahman Green in his prime (not a knock against Roger Craig, who was also very good). He never had as deep a WR corps as Favre had to finish his tenure here in Green Bay. Favre had weapons. Montana had his go to guy, who was arguably the best ever to play the game, but when you look at his complete list of weapons I don't think top to bottom it was any better than Favre had.

Favre was more 'clutch' earlier in his career, but the 2nd half he was not. That wasn't his game, and I am not sure why people take offense to those comments. As stated above, it seems like he threw away more opportunities than he capitalized on.

Favre was the BEST, in my opinion, when things broke down and he needed to improvise. I always thought he threw the better while on the move.

Montana, OTOH, was best in the clutch. I felt he was only a good QB most of the time, but when it really mattered, he became great.

As far as being a come from behind QB, I never had an appreciation for that status. If you were a good QB, why do you have to come from behind? Most of the great QBs did not have opportunities to 'come from behind' because they were usually winning at the end of the game.

As far as the Giants game goes .. . Same here. I told my brother the moment I saw Brett, before the game, looking like he didn't want to be there, that the Packers were going to loose and he would have a poor game. Getting outplayed by Eli Manning was embarrassing.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Dumb

Montana, OTOH, was best in the clutch.

Hey, there's John Candy.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I remember when I lost my faith for Favre in big games. 6 int's in St. Louis. However, I still havent lost love for the guy. Though if he went to the 'Queens it would be a real "Et tu Brute?" moment.

It's really funny so many people saw the same thing before the Giants game. My friend and I also talked about how it looked like he didn't even want to be there. His eyes just looked glassy, like he was thinking about something else.