Cutler an elite QB?

[Scott Campbell]

But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?

What'd ya think of Dungy's opinion.

[Scott Campbell]

Rk 	Name/Team 	............Pct 	Yds/Att. RTG	IntRate	TDRate
1	Gus Frerotte, Min...... 	59.10	7.17	73.70	4.98%	3.99%
2	Brett Favre, NYJ....... 	65.70	6.65	81.00	4.21%	4.21%
3	Ben Roethlisberger, Pit 	59.90	7.04	80.10	3.20%	3.62%
4	Dan Orlovsky, Det...... 	56.10	6.34	72.60	3.14%	3.14%
5	Tony Romo, Dal......... 	61.30	7.66	91.40	3.11%	5.78%
6	Marc Bulger, StL....... 	57.00	6.18	71.40	2.95%	2.50%
7	Jay Cutler, Den........ 	62.30	7.35	86.00	2.92%	4.06%
8	Jake Delhomme, Car..... 	59.40	7.94	84.70	2.90%	3.62%
9	Tyler Thigpen, KC...... 	54.80	6.21	76.00	2.86%	4.29%
10	Derek Anderson, Cle... 	50.20	5.71	66.50	2.83%	3.18%
11	Joe Flacco, Bal....... 	60.00	6.94	80.30	2.80%	3.27%
12	Shaun Hill, SF........ 	62.80	7.10	87.50	2.78%	4.51%
13	Drew Brees, NO........ 	65.00	7.98	96.20	2.68%	5.35%
14	Trent Edwards, Buf.... 	65.50	7.22	85.40	2.67%	2.94%
15	Matt Schaub, Hou...... 	66.10	8.01	92.70	2.63%	3.95%
16	Kyle Orton, Chi....... 	58.50	6.39	79.60	2.58%	3.87%
17	Matt Ryan, Atl........ 	61.10	7.93	87.70	2.53%	3.69%
18	David Garrard, Jac.... 	62.60	6.77	81.70	2.43%	2.80%
19	Aaron Rodgers, GB..... 	63.60	7.53	93.80	2.43%	5.22%
20	Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin. 	59.40	5.12	70.00	2.42%	2.15%
21	Kurt Warner, Ari...... 	67.10	7.66	96.90	2.34%	5.02%
22	Philip Rivers, SD..... 	65.30	8.39	105.50	2.30%	7.11%
23	JaMarcus Russell, Oak. 	53.80	6.58	77.10	2.17%	3.53%
24	Peyton Manning, Ind... 	66.80	7.21	95.00	2.16%	4.86%
25	Matt Cassel, NE....... 	63.40	7.16	89.40	2.13%	4.07%
26	Eli Manning, NYG...... 	60.30	6.76	86.40	2.09%	4.38%
27	Donovan McNabb, Phi... 	60.40	6.86	86.40	1.93%	4.03%
28	Kerry Collins, Ten.... 	58.30	6.45	80.20	1.69%	2.89%
29	Jeff Garcia, TB....... 	64.90	7.21	90.20	1.60%	3.19%
30	Chad Pennington, Mia.. 	67.40	7.67	97.40	1.47%	3.99%
31	Seneca Wallace, Sea... 	58.30	6.33	87.00	1.24%	4.55%
32	Jason Campbell, Was... 	62.30	6.41	84.30	1.19%	2.57%

Ok, I must be missing something here. What's the basis for the ranking on this chart?

[pbmax]

Rk 	Name/Team 	............Pct 	Yds/Att. RTG	IntRate	TDRate
1	Gus Frerotte, Min...... 	59.10	7.17	73.70	4.98%	3.99%
2	Brett Favre, NYJ....... 	65.70	6.65	81.00	4.21%	4.21%
3	Ben Roethlisberger, Pit 	59.90	7.04	80.10	3.20%	3.62%
4	Dan Orlovsky, Det...... 	56.10	6.34	72.60	3.14%	3.14%
5	Tony Romo, Dal......... 	61.30	7.66	91.40	3.11%	5.78%
6	Marc Bulger, StL....... 	57.00	6.18	71.40	2.95%	2.50%
7	Jay Cutler, Den........ 	62.30	7.35	86.00	2.92%	4.06%
8	Jake Delhomme, Car..... 	59.40	7.94	84.70	2.90%	3.62%
9	Tyler Thigpen, KC...... 	54.80	6.21	76.00	2.86%	4.29%
10	Derek Anderson, Cle... 	50.20	5.71	66.50	2.83%	3.18%
11	Joe Flacco, Bal....... 	60.00	6.94	80.30	2.80%	3.27%
12	Shaun Hill, SF........ 	62.80	7.10	87.50	2.78%	4.51%
13	Drew Brees, NO........ 	65.00	7.98	96.20	2.68%	5.35%
14	Trent Edwards, Buf.... 	65.50	7.22	85.40	2.67%	2.94%
15	Matt Schaub, Hou...... 	66.10	8.01	92.70	2.63%	3.95%
16	Kyle Orton, Chi....... 	58.50	6.39	79.60	2.58%	3.87%
17	Matt Ryan, Atl........ 	61.10	7.93	87.70	2.53%	3.69%
18	David Garrard, Jac.... 	62.60	6.77	81.70	2.43%	2.80%
19	Aaron Rodgers, GB..... 	63.60	7.53	93.80	2.43%	5.22%
20	Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin. 	59.40	5.12	70.00	2.42%	2.15%
21	Kurt Warner, Ari...... 	67.10	7.66	96.90	2.34%	5.02%
22	Philip Rivers, SD..... 	65.30	8.39	105.50	2.30%	7.11%
23	JaMarcus Russell, Oak. 	53.80	6.58	77.10	2.17%	3.53%
24	Peyton Manning, Ind... 	66.80	7.21	95.00	2.16%	4.86%
25	Matt Cassel, NE....... 	63.40	7.16	89.40	2.13%	4.07%
26	Eli Manning, NYG...... 	60.30	6.76	86.40	2.09%	4.38%
27	Donovan McNabb, Phi... 	60.40	6.86	86.40	1.93%	4.03%
28	Kerry Collins, Ten.... 	58.30	6.45	80.20	1.69%	2.89%
29	Jeff Garcia, TB....... 	64.90	7.21	90.20	1.60%	3.19%
30	Chad Pennington, Mia.. 	67.40	7.67	97.40	1.47%	3.99%
31	Seneca Wallace, Sea... 	58.30	6.33	87.00	1.24%	4.55%
32	Jason Campbell, Was... 	62.30	6.41	84.30	1.19%	2.57%

Ok, I must be missing something here. What's the basis for the ranking on this chart?

Interception Rank. This was a reply to someone's post that of course Cutler threw a higher number of interceptions because he had to throw with an oddly mediocre Denver running game and a bad defense.

These facts are true, but even accounting for the higher number of passes, Cutler heaved an interceptions at a good clip, seventh "best" in the league.

The odd one here is Roethlisberger, who played superbly in the Super Bowl (at least the last quarter) but whose numbers often look medicore during the season.

The best argument for Rodgers is the difference between the rate at which he chucks Tds versus INTs. Being third in the league is very good. Although the presence of Seneca Wallace is troubling.

[Scott Campbell]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

[Patler]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

For some reason, his 2008 performance is widely ignored, downplayed, whatever. I think he should have gotten more recognition for it.

[Scott Campbell]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

For some reason, his 2008 performance is widely ignored, downplayed, whatever. I think he should have gotten more recognition for it.

I'm not sure, but San Diego got off to that slow start. Denver and the Jets got off to fast starts.

[pbmax]

Phillip Rivers really pops off that chart.

For some reason, his 2008 performance is widely ignored, downplayed, whatever. I think he should have gotten more recognition for it.

I'm not sure, but San Diego got off to that slow start. Denver and the Jets got off to fast starts.

Drew Brees was getting a lot of love as well. He had the media friendly factors of playing in New Orleans (can talk about rebuilding), a popular Parcell's disciple for a coach (Payton) and some monster games. And, except against the Packers, no defense to hold a lead.

And i think conventional wisdom held that on his own, it was unfair and perhaps impossible for Rodgers to replace Favre in totality. So that overall assessment became the prism through which Rodgers was viewed even during games. So his accomplishments were treated to yes, but comments.... Add the fact that he was a rookie starter and the team record, everything was downgraded.

[pbmax]

I do like the yards per attempt metric for QBs too. Rodgers fares well here and the Seneca Wallace phenomenon might be explained. I think if you are a QB that throws high numbers of TDs and INTs, you need a relatively high Yard per Attempt to make up for the field position and possession you are surrendering on an INT. Cutler does better here that in the other two rankings.

Rk 	Name/Team ................Yds/Att 
01	Philip Rivers, SD .........8.39
02	Matt Schaub, Hou ..........8.01
03	Drew Brees, NO ............7.98
04	Jake Delhomme, Car ........7.94
05	Matt Ryan, Atl ............7.93
06	Chad Pennington, Mia ......7.67
07	Kurt Warner, Ari ..........7.66
08	Tony Romo, Dal ............7.66
09	Aaron Rodgers, GB .........7.53
10	Jay Cutler, Den ...........7.35
11	Trent Edwards, Buf ........7.22
12	Jeff Garcia, TB ...........7.21
13	Peyton Manning, Ind .......7.21
14	Gus Frerotte, Min .........7.17
15	Matt Cassel, NE ...........7.16
16	Shaun Hill, SF ............7.10
17	Ben Roethlisberger, Pit ...7.04
18	Joe Flacco, Bal ...........6.94
19	Donovan McNabb, Phi .......6.86
20	David Garrard, Jac ........6.77
21	Eli Manning, NYG ..........6.76
22	Brett Favre, NYJ ..........6.65
23	JaMarcus Russell, Oak .....6.58
24	Kerry Collins, Ten ........6.45
25	Jason Campbell, Was .......6.41
26	Kyle Orton, Chi ...........6.39
27	Dan Orlovsky, Det .........6.34
28	Seneca Wallace, Sea .......6.33
29	Tyler Thigpen, KC .........6.21
30	Marc Bulger, StL ..........6.18
31	Derek Anderson, Cle .......5.71
32	Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin .....5.12

[Fritz]

Cutler did heave a good number of balls to the opposition. But that's only half the story. What was the differential between TD rates and Int rates? I am glad you asked:

Rk 	Name/Team ..............IntRate	TDRate	RateDiffer
01	Philip Rivers, SD.........2.30%	7.11%	4.81%
02	Seneca Wallace, Sea. .....1.24%	4.55%	3.31%
03	Aaron Rodgers, GB ........2.43%	5.22%	2.80%
04	Peyton Manning, Ind ......2.16%	4.86%	2.70%
05	Drew Brees, NO ...........2.68%	5.35%	2.68%
06	Kurt Warner, Ari .........2.34%	5.02%	2.68%
07	Tony Romo, Dal ...........3.11%	5.78%	2.67%
08	Chad Pennington, Mia .....1.47%	3.99%	2.52%
09	Eli Manning, NYG .........2.09%	4.38%	2.30%
10	Donovan McNabb, Phi ......1.93%	4.03%	2.10%
11	Matt Cassel, NE ..........2.13%	4.07%	1.94%
12	Shaun Hill, SF ...........2.78%	4.51%	1.74%
13	Jeff Garcia, TB ..........1.60%	3.19%	1.60%
14	Tyler Thigpen, KC ........2.86%	4.29%	1.43%
15	Jason Campbell, Was ......1.19%	2.57%	1.38%
16	JaMarcus Russell, Oak ....2.17%	3.53%	1.36%
17	Matt Schaub, Hou .........2.63%	3.95%	1.32%
18	Kyle Orton, Chi ..........2.58%	3.87%	1.29%
19	Kerry Collins, Ten .......1.69%	2.89%	1.20%
20	Matt Ryan, Atl ...........2.53%	3.69%	1.15%
21	Jay Cutler, Den ..........2.92%	4.06%	1.14%
22	Jake Delhomme, Car .......2.90%	3.62%	0.72%
23	Joe Flacco, Bal ..........2.80%	3.27%	0.47%
24	Ben Roethlisberger, Pit ..3.20%	3.62%	0.43%
25	David Garrard, Jac .......2.43%	2.80%	0.37%
26	Derek Anderson, Cle ......2.83%	3.18%	0.35%
27	Trent Edwards, Buf .......2.67%	2.94%	0.27%
28	Dan Orlovsky, Det ........3.14%	3.14%	0.00%
29	Brett Favre, NYJ .........4.21%	4.21%	0.00%
30	Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin ....2.42%	2.15%	-0.27%
31	Marc Bulger, StL .........2.95%	2.50%	-0.45%
32	Gus Frerotte, Min ........4.98%	3.99%	-1.00%

Who knew Seneca Wallace was a top-flight QB? Day-um

[cpk1994]

Cutler did heave a good number of balls to the opposition. But that's only half the story. What was the differential between TD rates and Int rates? I am glad you asked:

Rk 	Name/Team ..............IntRate	TDRate	RateDiffer
01	Philip Rivers, SD.........2.30%	7.11%	4.81%
02	Seneca Wallace, Sea. .....1.24%	4.55%	3.31%
03	Aaron Rodgers, GB ........2.43%	5.22%	2.80%
04	Peyton Manning, Ind ......2.16%	4.86%	2.70%
05	Drew Brees, NO ...........2.68%	5.35%	2.68%
06	Kurt Warner, Ari .........2.34%	5.02%	2.68%
07	Tony Romo, Dal ...........3.11%	5.78%	2.67%
08	Chad Pennington, Mia .....1.47%	3.99%	2.52%
09	Eli Manning, NYG .........2.09%	4.38%	2.30%
10	Donovan McNabb, Phi ......1.93%	4.03%	2.10%
11	Matt Cassel, NE ..........2.13%	4.07%	1.94%
12	Shaun Hill, SF ...........2.78%	4.51%	1.74%
13	Jeff Garcia, TB ..........1.60%	3.19%	1.60%
14	Tyler Thigpen, KC ........2.86%	4.29%	1.43%
15	Jason Campbell, Was ......1.19%	2.57%	1.38%
16	JaMarcus Russell, Oak ....2.17%	3.53%	1.36%
17	Matt Schaub, Hou .........2.63%	3.95%	1.32%
18	Kyle Orton, Chi ..........2.58%	3.87%	1.29%
19	Kerry Collins, Ten .......1.69%	2.89%	1.20%
20	Matt Ryan, Atl ...........2.53%	3.69%	1.15%
21	Jay Cutler, Den ..........2.92%	4.06%	1.14%
22	Jake Delhomme, Car .......2.90%	3.62%	0.72%
23	Joe Flacco, Bal ..........2.80%	3.27%	0.47%
24	Ben Roethlisberger, Pit ..3.20%	3.62%	0.43%
25	David Garrard, Jac .......2.43%	2.80%	0.37%
26	Derek Anderson, Cle ......2.83%	3.18%	0.35%
27	Trent Edwards, Buf .......2.67%	2.94%	0.27%
28	Dan Orlovsky, Det ........3.14%	3.14%	0.00%
29	Brett Favre, NYJ .........4.21%	4.21%	0.00%
30	Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cin ....2.42%	2.15%	-0.27%
31	Marc Bulger, StL .........2.95%	2.50%	-0.45%
32	Gus Frerotte, Min ........4.98%	3.99%	-1.00%

Who knew Seneca Wallace was a top-flight QB? Day-um

And who knew that Dan Orlovsky was equal to Brett Favre. Maybe ol Dan has a shot after all.

[Dabaddestbear]

this shit talking about Cutler could get rough if he beats the shit outta us this year... hope some of you can get the foot outta ur mouth if it happens

Well, the Bears could beat up on the Packers this year, maybe because of Cutler, maybe for other reasons. The Packers have not played the Bears real well consistently since Lovie made it a franchise goal to beat the Packers.

If Cutler becomes a star, so be it. That doesn't mean he was a star up until now, or that the criticism of his play until now are not valid. I, for one, have no problem acknowledging greatness in players on other teams.

But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?
For one, a present day Packer fan should never use the win loss record as a measurement for a QB. Rodgers only won 6 games for his career! So he must suck also right?

And I read all these Packer fan postings and I guarantee more than half of you will not reply to a post in regards to Cutler being so bad if he rips the Packers a new one in week one. You can put me down on record and save this post (for I will be saving all of these by you guys), that Cutler will vastly improve the Bears, and they will be better than last year. Which may not bode well for the Packers, since the no Bears and their no talented WR's were able to beat the Packers with a much lesser QB. By the way, that QB (Orton) is battling just to be the starter for Denver.

This season gonna be so much more enjoyable just because of these post you guys are making. Have fun.

I'm not sure why you picked my post to challenge, but since you did, I'll play!.

I posted comments from a Denver resident who has watched Cutler's entire NFL career to date, happens to be a life-long Bear fan, and isn't excited at all about Cutler in Chicago. I guess that is a factual report of mixed facts an opinions. My report was factual, his comments were both fact and his opinion based on facts and his first-hand observations.

I acknowledged that Chicago might mature him. I guess that's opinion, but is it really one that you want to dispute, or complain about?

I acknowledged the Bears success against GB under Smith (fact), and said I will have no problem recognizing Cutler as a star if he becomes one (promise,I guess; not fact, not opinion). Will you do the same for Rodgers?

Opinions mostly by all of us? OF COURSE! What else did you expect to get here? Are your posts anything other than opinions? Especially those about Cutler? We form opinions based on facts, rumors, reports, suppositions and even our own desires thrown into the mix. That's what its all about.

The difference on Packerrats is that, for the most part, the participants are realistic. Do you find anyone on here suggesting that Adrian Peterson (Viking version) sucks? Heck, most acknowledge that he might be the best back in the league right now.

Should I accept your OPINION about Cutler more than that of a Bear fan in Denver who has followed Cutler's career in great detail? How much have you seen him play? How much have you followed his off fielld activities? How much do you know about him? Perhaps you will be right, but for the time being I believe the Denver resident Bear fan has the better information on the topic.

If Cutler becomes a star, I think you will find that most on here will admit it, even if a bit grudgingly. Again I ask, will you do the same for Rodgers?

Dont take it in the wrong way, I wasnt picking on your post, I was just pointing out how you and others were saying "facts" when its only opinion. I dont expect a certain vibe on any message board. I do expect at least a few that will use logical arguments when making predictions. Not like oh, he never had a winning season in the NFL as a starter, so he is not worth it, when in that case you guys must thought Rex Grossman was god since he not only had winning seasons but went to the SB!

And that story about that guy just seems like a bitter Bronco fan, much more than a Bears fan. If his argument is that he is not a team player, strange how not even ONE of his teammates ever said that, or even hinted to that point. So when you say you will take the opinion of a Bronco FAN that saw him play the past few years over a Bears fan, I say that I will take the opinion of the PLAYERS AND COACHES that played with and coached him, over a bitter Bronco fan and a rival Packer fan.

[Dabaddestbear]

But are you guys really stating facts or opinion?

What'd ya think of Dungy's opinion.

not much...especially since he had arguably the best QB in the game with one of the best WR's the past 10 years and was only able to pull one out against the mighty Rex Grossman. So I cant say he is the source for what to do with a good QB. If he had ever coached Cutler then maybe his word would hold some credence with me. How many times was his team predicted to win it all, only to fall flat on their face against weaker opponents (on paper) in the playoffs?

[Scott Campbell]

I see plenty of facts posted in here. If you're truly unable to find them, maybe it's because you just don't want to see them.

[Scott Campbell]

If he had ever coached Cutler then maybe his word would hold some credence with me.

Yeah, well you haven't coached Cutler either. So I believe Tony.

[wist43]

I consider Cutler to be a good QB... liked him coming out.

Doubt he is the kind of guy that can carry a team to a championship... but he can be the QB of a run-based offense, and very effectively QB a team to a SB title.

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, et al... those guys are hard to find; hence my desire to go with a power running game. Cutler can be very effective for the Bears - I FEAR - but, I don't think they'll expect him to carry the team. Running game and defense have to be priorties #1 and 2... Cutler is good enough to get them the rest of the way there, if they stick to those precepts.