Nelson or Jones

[SkinBasket]

Fuck, you are dumb.

No shit? I already made that clear in this thread. Now let's talk some pointy-ball!!!

[ThunderDan]

You can tout the ravens card, but anyone who has any understanding of statistics at all can look at the raw data and decipher that is clearly a statistically anomaly.

Sorry Partial, but this line from you is a complete laugher!!

What is the highest level of formal mathematics or statistics you have completed?

500 level math and statistics from the University of Wisconsin - Madison, where I have my first degree a BS-Chemistry (223 or 227 was 3rd semester calc just so you will understand)

I had two semesters of calc completed upon graduating high school.

I'm still confused. Who has the bigger penis?

I just answered the boys question with the truth. I am sure he was ready to try and rub it in my face if I only had one semester of stats or calc.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think Partial has a point re: Kansas vs. California insofar as we're comparing statewide competition. Nelson having the High School State Track Record in the 100m would be more impressive if he held it in California than if he held it in Kansas. Since there are more people in California, so you have a lot more competition to be the very best at something.

Still agreed, but there is one more factor. There are MANY more football programs in California. Nelson making the team (walkon or not) in a state with fewer spots also counts for something. Of course, this doesn't take into account the number of slots filled by out of state recruits.

PB,

Go back and read my posts.

Jordy's track numbers would put him in the top 10 in Cali.

The elite, for the most part, are pretty damn close..regardless of state.

[Deputy Nutz]

You are all gay nerds. Even Ziggy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jones has strength, but he hasn't shown that he can use that strength to muscle corners for the ball AND make yards after contact. Jones hasn't shown the ability to make yards after contact that his strength would lead you to believe. There are two things that I think Jones has to dramatically improve on. The first is focus. For a guy with such good hands, he drops too many balls. He lacks focus at times. The second is yards after contact. He goes down too easily too often. With his strength, he should be better at that.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/51639017.html

Jones immediately passes the eyeball test. Yet, for all his muscle and bulk, he isn't physical either running after the catch or blocking.

The strength and softness of Jones' hands have been evident by how he tries to catch almost every pass away from his body. Nevertheless, he has dropped 12 of 117 passes in two seasons, a rate of 10.3% that is unacceptable.

[SnakeLH2006]

Jones in a fucking heartbeat. He made plays to WIN games. Put up much better numbers in his rook season. I like Jordy, but this man-love needs to stop. This is like White Lightning 2. Prove something Jordy, else get off the wagon. JJ is twice the player in the NFL than Jordy has proven thus far.

Maybe I'm wrong...maybe Jordy is the best WHITE WR in the NFL right now....but JJ is so much better right now till stats/games say otherwise....ALWAYS like JJ. Want to like Jordy, but he hasn't done one thing to make Snake like him, unlike JJ. JJ is a beast, Jordy is just a guy so far.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Maybe I'm wrong...maybe Jordy is the best WHITE WR in the NFL right now....but JJ is so much better right now till stats/games say otherwise....ALWAYS like JJ. Want to like Jordy, but he hasn't done one thing to make Snake like him, unlike JJ. JJ is a beast, Jordy is just a guy so far.

We must have watched different guys last year. Thinking about white WRs, I'd have to give the nod to Wes Welker. Different player than Nelson though. The season can't come soon enough, but I'll give my observation again. If you want to compare Nelson to a white WR, I see him becoming something similar to Kevin Walter, and that's a pretty good player. I don't see the stud that you see in Jones (nor do I see it in Jordy really). He makes some good plays, but he won't last in the league very long dropping over 10% of the balls thrown his way and not using his strength to the utmost. On the plus side, although he lacks deep speed, he should have good hands and good yards after the catch ability. From the article, the coaches apparently were more impressed with Nelson during the offseason. Should be one of the better battles in camp though.

[Gunakor]

Prove something Jordy, else get off the wagon. JJ is twice the player in the NFL than Jordy has proven thus far.

What is the first and most important job asked of a wide receiver? Catch the ball. All other things aside, let's focus on that, since a WR isn't doing a whole lot when he drops that many passes thrown in his direction. Jordy Nelson dropped just one pass in 50 some balls thrown his way last year. Just one. Jones and his 10% drop rate has some proving of his own to do, or he'll quickly be passed on the depth chart by a guy who doesn't drop the ball.

A drop rate of under 2% in one's rookie season proves a great deal. What has Jones proven in his 2 years that's of greater value than that? TWICE the player Nelson is? How so?

[SkinBasket]

A drop rate of under 2% in one's rookie season proves a great deal. What has Jones proven in his 2 years that's of greater value than that? TWICE the player Nelson is? How so?

The darker the berry the sweeter the juice?

[Packgator]

Re: Nelson or Jones

I see Nelson becoming the #2........and much sooner than later. Is this the year Driver drops to #3 (or lower)? I hope not......but when that day comes Nelson will be a very capable replacement.

[DonHutson]

Who has the bigger penis?

There's the question that you can be sure raised it's ugly head (no pun intended) every time an innocuous, just passing the time of day thread explodes to 174 pages.

[MJZiggy]

You are all gay nerds. Even Ziggy.

Quit teasing Bretsky like that!

[Fritz]

What, Bretsky likes nerdy chicks???

[Waldo]

For how much "drops" are talked up regarding Jones (even that BS crap in the JSO), there is one measure of "hands" that Jones excels at. Catch%, or Receptions/Targets, not Drops/Target, the JSO's measure.

James Jones catches passes (or gets his hands on and gets reasonably close to catching) that no other Packer can hope to catch (Finley though is surprisingly good as well). His ball tracking ability is ridiculously good (he find and pinpoint landing spots very fast relative to the average WR), and he has outstanding body control, being able and willing to wildly contort his body and leap to get his hands in position, and can catch well with his hands away from his body. I really don't give a crap if Jones dropped a few more % of passes than Jennings did, several of them Jennings would not have seen or would have watched sail away, while not getting even close enough to catching it for his miss to be considered a "drop". WR's like Jones are QB's best friends, they can catch any pass no matter how shitty, as long as it gets near him. The increased level of difficulty of some of them leads to a higher drop rate.

Last year Jennings' drop rate was 6.52% of the balls thrown to him, Jones' was 13.8% of the balls thrown to him. Last year James caught 69.0% of the passes Aaron threw to him, Greg caught 60.6% of the passes Aaron threw to him. You decide which is more important to the team. This trend held true in 2007 too, Jones led the WR's in catch %.

Jones and Jordy are very different players. One thing to note about them that has been brought up by professional draft scouts, neither of them participated in pre-draft speed camps. While they may (probably) worked on their own, neither participated in a targeted workout program designed to help them run a fast 40, or perform well on the other drills. Scouts (and teams) weight and value this differently, TT seems to put a bit of emphasis on it.

Jones is more quick than fast (though his top gear is decent, not a burner though), and knows how to use his body and strength to get off the line and shield the throwing lane from defenders. He is taller, but not what would be considered a tall guy. His threat as a deep guy comes from immediately burning the coverage at the line, and he can cut very fast. His play is like an overall very fast guy that only has a 4 speed transmission. And he is exceptionally good at catching passes (even if his deceptive drop rate may say otherwise).

Jordy OTOH is more fast than quick. Sticking with the transmission theme, he is like a 6 speed with a shot first gear. His quick acceleration isn't that great, but once he gets up to top speed, his top gear is faster than everybody else's. He isn't really a precision cutter. I did see him however modulate his body language in an attempt to get open, Greg didn't really start until his 2nd year, and none of our other WR's do it (switching from nonchalant to determined mid-route, etc...). His hands are like glue, once the ball touches his hands, he has it, but he isn't nearly as good as James at going and getting tough passes. His is easy for Aaron to find however, and built for success in the red zone.

IMO Jones is built to be one of the best slot WR's in the league. Jordy is built to excel at full time flanker (the reason he cost more draft capitol) (Greg and Driver are both prototype split end WR's, Greg moreso). Currently Driver is a slot/flanker hybrid, he plays slot in 3+ WR sets and flanker in 2 WR sets. Jones and Jordy cover both those skill sets. Jones could play flanker, but he just isn't built for success like Jordy, likewise Jordy just isn't built to excel in the slot like Jones.

Which will see the field first as a starter (our 3rd WR pretty much is a starter)? Nelson IMO. It is about time to make Driver a full time slot WR. He kinda sucks at flanker, and does his best work in the slot. We usually run on 2 WR sets anyway.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Last year Jennings' drop rate was 6.52% of the balls thrown to him, Jones' was 13.8% of the balls thrown to him. Last year James caught 69.0% of the passes Aaron threw to him, Greg caught 60.6% of the passes Aaron threw to him. You decide which is more important to the team. This trend held true in 2007 too, Jones led the WR's in catch %.

Isn't this misleading if you aren't taking into consideration where the catches are being made (e.g. did Jennings have a bigger percentage of deep balls thrown his way, where you'd expect the catch % to be lower)?