Nelson or Jones

[HarveyWallbangers]

The point was that "Q" was slow and no taller than Jones yet he is a great player. Then I showed all the other players that were in the same height/speed range. There are a lot of top receivers in that range.

Harvey's main point is Jones is limited by speed and height. I disagree with that and I don't think he's anquan Boldin. I don't think I ever made that point.

Some guys run 4.6/4.7 but have football speed. Remember that Jerry Rice didn't run a good 40, but he was fast on the football field. Boldin also has that. Jones doesn't. Some guys run well with pads on. Some don't.

[RashanGary]

My main belief is that Jones is a starting caliber WR.

My evidence is that his rookie season was among the best ever in Packer history. I believe is play is impressive (strictly opinion). I believe his inconsistencies and ball control issues from his rookie season are very correctable.

That's what I believe. That's why I believe it. I've argued that his height and speed are in the ranges of other top WR's. I'm not calling him a top WR, just pointing out that nothing about his physical upside prevents him from being great. I just think he's good, but if you want to talk about ceiling based on measurables he could definitely be great too.

[RashanGary]

Jones doesn't.

I disagree. Time will tell. Hopefully I"m right, but if not, I'll be here to give you props

[HarveyWallbangers]

My main belief is that Jones is a starting caliber WR.

I never argued that he couldn't be a starter. I see a guy you'd always be looking to upgrade though.

[RashanGary]

My main belief is that Jones is a starting caliber WR.

I never argued that he couldn't be a starter. I see a guy you'd always be looking to upgrade though.

And I disagree with that. We definitely disagree. I think he's going to put up 1000 yard seasons in his career. I think he's very talented.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ty and HW, I agree. The numbers do not tell the whole story, but Jones is an impressive dude. He's a good starter, I really believe that. It's our deepest position, so he's not starting for us, but he'd start for every one of our divisional opponents IMO.

And I agree. He needs to tighten his routes, clean up the mental errors and improve hsi ball security from his rookie year. All of those things, I see as probably to improve. I see that as him just being a rook.

And he tailed off because Favre loved Koren. It was stupid IMO. JOnes was better.

If the numbers dont' tell the story, then what are you basing it off. All i can say is he looks good in a jersey..he has some guns.

Starter on every other team in the division. Justin..you are going down the partial track with this..i want you to really think about the position you are taking. I like you, that is why i'm giving you the heads up. Don't make Jones your Money Morency!

Detroit: Calvin Johnson and Shaun McDonald and they just drafted Williams of PSU..who looked in college way better than jones in a much tougher conf. No way does he for sure start on the lions.

Vikes: Berrian and Wade. They have Rice and now Harvin. Doubt he beats out 3 of those 4..since there ain't a chance he beats out berrian.

Bears: Hester, Rashied Davis, Brandon Lloyd, and Booker if he is still there. Just spent 3 and 4 this draft...can he beat out those guys? I can't even see him starting there.

BTW, Davis is another of the long line of illustrios SJS receivers.

How can he be a good starter when he doesn't start?

You can wish, hope, and dream all you want, but his pedigree doesn't suggest that he will be great. He hasn't been great at any level.

But, i'm sure you were convinced that Derrick Mayes was gonna be the shit.

[RashanGary]

Starter on every other team in the division. Justin..you are going down the partial track with this..i want you to really think about the position you are taking. I like you, that is why i'm giving you the heads up. Don't make Jones your Money Morency!

haha. I'm happy to put my eggs in his basket. I'm very excited about James Jones. I think he's talented. I think he's exciting. I'm in his corner all the way. There are a lot of footballs to share, but he's going to make some big plays this year. He's that kind of player. He's a big play guy.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

The point was that "Q" was slow and no taller than Jones yet he is a great player. Then I showed all the other players that were in the same height/speed range. There are a lot of top receivers in that range.

Harvey's main point is Jones is limited by speed and height. I disagree with that and I don't think he's anquan Boldin. I don't think I ever made that point.

Harv didn't say that. He also mentioned a ton of other things. You are focusing on the two that you choose.

By talking about successful players with the same measurebles you are creating a false argument. Jones has never been a succesful player, cept for one year.

You shouldn't be looking at guys like Q, etc, because they are the statistical outliers....go and look at the tons of mediocre players with Jones' measureables.

[RashanGary]

You shouldn't be looking at guys like Q, etc, because they are the statistical outliers....go and look at the tons of mediocre players with Jones' measureables.

That's why I went and looked at the top 10 last year. I'd say that's a pretty good group to use as comparsion (even though I don't consider him great, only really good).

[RashanGary]

There is evidence on both sides. I've made my case. It has some holes in it. It's not proven. Neither of you have a proven point either. Time will tell. I'm tied to James Jones now. I think he's really good and if he's an unspectacular nobody I'll take the verbal assault that I have coming.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Starter on every other team in the division. Justin..you are going down the partial track with this..i want you to really think about the position you are taking. I like you, that is why i'm giving you the heads up. Don't make Jones your Money Morency!

haha. I'm happy to put my eggs in his basket. I'm very excited about James Jones. I think he's talented. I think he's exciting. I'm in his corner all the way. There are a lot of footballs to share, but he's going to make some big plays this year. He's that kind of player. He's a big play guy.

that is fine, but dont' start arguing to prove your point. You have nothing but your opinion. Say you think he is great or can be a good starter and then shut up and let him prove it.

Otherwise you are down the wrong road..a road that has you proclaiming, "jones has it."

BTW, having a great rookie season doesn't mean that much...one good season is one good season, regardless of the year.

And, talking about it now...foolish, the game has changed as well as the packers.

But, his pales in comparison to Mr. Hutson's. Also better Lofton, Sharpe, Dowler, Mcgee, Howton, Jennings.

[RashanGary]

Otherwise you are down the wrong road..a road that has you proclaiming, "jones has it."

Never set out to prove anything. I set out to disprove the "he doesn't have it" sentiment and expressed the opinion that I think he does. I think I did a fine job.

Now, as far as if he turns out to be the big play I guy I think he is, time will tell. I don't expect big time yardage totals this year (not enough footballs to go around) but I do expect big, memorable plays; several of them.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You shouldn't be looking at guys like Q, etc, because they are the statistical outliers....go and look at the tons of mediocre players with Jones' measureables.

That's why I went and looked at the top 10 last year. I'd say that's a pretty good group to use as comparsion (even though I don't consider him great, only really good).

You dont' understand outliers then. And you certainly dont' see his marginal playing speed..which was a criticism coming out of college

1. Andre Johnson..bigger and faster.
2. Fitz..bigger and slightly faster
3. Smith...faster
4. Roddy White..faster
5. Jennings...faster
6. Brandon Marshall...bigger
7. Bryant...same
8. Welker...smaller
9. Wayne..faster
10. Vincent Jacson...bigger

So, out of the top ten, you have one that has the same measurements in Bryant, and 2 that are smaller.

Sorry, but that doesn't bode well for your argument.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Otherwise you are down the wrong road..a road that has you proclaiming, "jones has it."

Never set out to prove anything. I set out to disprove the "he doesn't have it" sentiment and expressed the opinion that I think he does. I think I did a fine job.

Now, as far as if he turns out to be the big play I guy I think he is, time will tell. I don't expect big time yardage totals this year (not enough footballs to go around) but I do expect big, memorable plays; several of them.

And the partial transformation is nearly complete.

Stats...stats don't mean anything.

Use stats...ooops you used them incorrectly and were wrong.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Never set out to prove anything. I set out to disprove the "he doesn't have it" sentiment and expressed the opinion that I think he does. I think I did a fine job.

It was fun arguing with you. Actually, things remained civil. We tried to use some facts to prove our point. It comes down to what you see. I see Jones for what he is now--which isn't bad. I don't see him getting a lot better. Nah, I wish you'd be this civil when arguing about Brett--instead of trying to get a rise out of "the Others."