Nelson or Jones

[BallHawk]

What an interesting thread here. Both players bring their own unique talents to the table and we are lucky, frankly, to have both! I'm sure there are several teams out there that would LOVE to have Jones and Nelson as their STARTERS.

HOMER post. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I doubt there is ONE team that would be happy with those 2 as starters at this point.

I think the Giants, 49ers, and Jaguars may argue that point.

[Pugger]

And the Bears????

[Tony Oday]

Vikings...

[Partial]

What an interesting thread here. Both players bring their own unique talents to the table and we are lucky, frankly, to have both! I'm sure there are several teams out there that would LOVE to have Jones and Nelson as their STARTERS.

HOMER post. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I doubt there is ONE team that would be happy with those 2 as starters at this point.

agreed.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

What an interesting thread here. Both players bring their own unique talents to the table and we are lucky, frankly, to have both! I'm sure there are several teams out there that would LOVE to have Jones and Nelson as their STARTERS.

HOMER post. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I doubt there is ONE team that would be happy with those 2 as starters at this point.

I think the Giants, 49ers, and Jaguars may argue that point.

giants: Smith and Hixon. Nope. Love, no.
Jags: Holt and Troy. Prolly love to have them compete for the other job.
Niners: isaac bruce and Josh morgan. Doubt they would love for them to be their starters. They would love for Crabtree to sign.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vikings...

Homer post, redux.

Yeah, those two are better and more accomplished than Berrian and Rice.

Ridiculous.

Same crowd that overrates Ruvell.

[Lurker64]

Vikings...

Homer post, redux.

Yeah, those two are better and more accomplished than Berrian and Rice.

I would say that Jones and Nelson don't necessarily compare unfavorably to Rice.

In his rookie year Rice had 31 receptions for 396 yards and 4 TDs.
In his rookie year Jones had 47 receptions for 676 yards and 2 TDs.
In his rookie year Nelson had 33 receptions for 366 yards and 2 TDs.

In an injury marked sophomore season, Rice had 15 receptions for 141 yards and 4 TDs.
In an injury marked sophomore season, Jones had 20 receptions for 274 yards and a Touchdown.

Certainly there are a lot of other factors to consider, but it's not as though it's clear cut.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vikings...

Homer post, redux.

Yeah, those two are better and more accomplished than Berrian and Rice.

I would say that Jones and Nelson don't necessarily compare unfavorably to Rice.

In his rookie year Rice had 31 receptions for 396 yards and 4 TDs.
In his rookie year Jones had 47 receptions for 676 yards and 2 TDs.
In his rookie year Nelson had 33 receptions for 366 yards and 2 TDs.

In an injury marked sophomore season, Rice had 15 receptions for 141 yards and 4 TDs.
In an injury marked sophomore season, Jones had 20 receptions for 274 yards and a Touchdown.

Certainly there are a lot of other factors to consider, but it's not as though it's clear cut.

That is why i listed as a pair.

Would the vikes like for those two to compete against Rice to win the job? Prolly. See, i'm no homer. But, talking as if Jones or Jordy is the greatest when they haven't proven anything is foolish. The same optimism we have about them is the same the vikes have about Rice.

Would they be justified in saying we would love to have Rice rather than Jones or Jordy...no.

But, that wasn't the statement. It was LOVE to have them as starters..and then someone suggested vikings.

[Gunakor]

Vikings...

Homer post, redux.

Yeah, those two are better and more accomplished than Berrian and Rice.

Ridiculous.

Same crowd that overrates Ruvell.

What about the crowd that overrates Rice?

Edit: sorry, didn't get to the end of the thread to see your response to this already. My apologies.

Jones AND Nelson wouldn't be great starters as a 1-2 combo. But either would make a productive #2 on most NFL squads that have a legitimate #1 already.

[bobblehead]

Vikings...

Homer post, redux.

Yeah, those two are better and more accomplished than Berrian and Rice.

I would say that Jones and Nelson don't necessarily compare unfavorably to Rice.

In his rookie year Rice had 31 receptions for 396 yards and 4 TDs.
In his rookie year Jones had 47 receptions for 676 yards and 2 TDs.
In his rookie year Nelson had 33 receptions for 366 yards and 2 TDs.

In an injury marked sophomore season, Rice had 15 receptions for 141 yards and 4 TDs.
In an injury marked sophomore season, Jones had 20 receptions for 274 yards and a Touchdown.

Certainly there are a lot of other factors to consider, but it's not as though it's clear cut.

My guess is if they had Jones and Jordy that Jones would win the job....but I highly doubt they would love that fact at this point.

If you are saying they would trade their pair for ours you might make a case, but saying they would love to have them as the starters...nah, they would immediately be looking to upgrade while those 2 develope, or patiently wait, but they would in no way love it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Vikings...

Homer post, redux.

Yeah, those two are better and more accomplished than Berrian and Rice.

Ridiculous.

Same crowd that overrates Ruvell.

What about the crowd that overrates Rice?

Edit: sorry, didn't get to the end of the thread to see your response to this already. My apologies.

Jones AND Nelson wouldn't be great starters as a 1-2 combo. But either would make a productive #2 on most NFL squads that have a legitimate #1 already.

I think even saying #2 on most clubs is an overstatement. Until they actually do something they are what they are...a 3 and 3a. When there is talk about how they are pushing DD...and if one of them should replace DD..then i think it is fair to talk about starting.

[Waldo]

I love this circular logic as it relates to James and Jordy.

They aren't that good until they prove that they are.

Well, there is only one way to do that.

Send DD or GJ to the bench.

Neither plays enough snaps or is high enough in the read progression to become "proven".

A #3 WR has hit 1000 yds 4 times in the history of the NFL.

Unless of course, you grade their effectiveness instead of volume of production.

DD and JJ are virtually indistinguishable via effectiveness stats. Jordy lags behind.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I love this circular logic as it relates to James and Jordy.

They aren't that good until they prove that they are.

Well, there is only one way to do that.

Send DD or GJ to the bench.

Neither plays enough snaps or is high enough in the read progression to become "proven".

A #3 WR has hit 1000 yds 4 times in the history of the NFL.

Unless of course, you grade their effectiveness instead of volume of production.

DD and JJ are virtually indistinguishable via effectiveness stats. Jordy lags behind.

Nope. You make a poor interpretation of what i'm saying.

First, how about a couple of years of production. If you aren't playing on the field you aren't producing. Jones fails on this because of being injured. Jordy fails because he is in his second year.

Second, show me something, show improvement. Jones had some issues his first year. Until he shows that he has improved, it is speculation. Jordy is in the same boat.

Nobody is suggesting 1000 yards, but consecutive 50 catch seasons might be nice. How about playing so well in limited time that you hear the coaches saying "we gotta get him on the field more...or something to that effect"

How about watching them and saying to yourself, wow, maybe Jones should start over DD. Or, jones needs to start so that he can take over..cause DD ain't gonna be around forever. Nobody is saying that. Or, watching and saying..."i wonder what we could get for DD cause we are missing X and i think we have enough at WR to get by, but X position is kinda weak and could be a problem."

please dont' put your values of how to judge a player on me or others. What you value or how you value isn't universal, nor is it the only way.

What i see is rampant homerism regarding our players, but especially our WRs. Ruvell was just the tip of the iceberg.

Fans on this board saying that the Vikes would LOVE to have J&J starting for them is beyond ridiculous. Perhaps this is an area that you can educate some on, instead of focusing on how j&j can prove themselves.

[Waldo]

I love this circular logic as it relates to James and Jordy.

They aren't that good until they prove that they are.

Well, there is only one way to do that.

Send DD or GJ to the bench.

Neither plays enough snaps or is high enough in the read progression to become "proven".

A #3 WR has hit 1000 yds 4 times in the history of the NFL.

Unless of course, you grade their effectiveness instead of volume of production.

DD and JJ are virtually indistinguishable via effectiveness stats. Jordy lags behind.

Nope. You make a poor interpretation of what i'm saying.

First, how about a couple of years of production. If you aren't playing on the field you aren't producing. Jones fails on this because of being injured. Jordy fails because he is in his second year.

Second, show me something, show improvement. Jones had some issues his first year. Until he shows that he has improved, it is speculation. Jordy is in the same boat.

Nobody is suggesting 1000 yards, but consecutive 50 catch seasons might be nice. How about playing so well in limited time that you hear the coaches saying "we gotta get him on the field more...or something to that effect"

How about watching them and saying to yourself, wow, maybe Jones should start over DD. Or, jones needs to start so that he can take over..cause DD ain't gonna be around forever. Nobody is saying that. Or, watching and saying..."i wonder what we could get for DD cause we are missing X and i think we have enough at WR to get by, but X position is kinda weak and could be a problem."

please dont' put your values of how to judge a player on me or others. What you value or how you value isn't universal, nor is it the only way.

What i see is rampant homerism regarding our players, but especially our WRs. Ruvell was just the tip of the iceberg.

Fans on this board saying that the Vikes would LOVE to have J&J starting for them is beyond ridiculous. Perhaps this is an area that you can educate some on, instead of focusing on how j&j can prove themselves.

I think that Jones should start over Donald, and that Donald should be our slot WR. He is showing decline at getting open, MM is hiding it somewhat (kinda the same way that MM hid Favre's ever declining piss poor accuracy outside). He is doing the slant stuff and the deep seam stuff, and doing it well, but thing like deep ins, outs, and curls, Don just isn't playing like he used to, he almost never has "separation". Jones looked better than he ever has before in PS, and all it took IMO was a slight improvement in Jones, or slight decline in Don, for Jones to be better than Don. Jones runs a more complete route tree and tends to get more separation than Don. And Don has a bad flag problem that showed up again in PS, on 2 WR base sets we largely run, which has been where Don has been getting flagged.

What do you value in WR's? The ability to catch, the ability to gain yards, and ability to score is what I value.

I've always thought that Ruvell sucked. I don't think that Jordy is very good yet either. Jones is a different story.

I really don't care what you think about them. Don't say wow though, if one of our starters goes down, when Jones comes in and plays just as well. The signs are there if you look for them.

[RashanGary]

Agreed, Waldo. Jones was a playmaker and very consistent with his hands as a rookie. Last years injury hurt, but all signs point to him being 100% back this year.

Something you don't get to watch, that you may not know is that Jones half asses it on ST's. I've paid attention to him at the 10 or so minicamps and TC practices I've been to and there is a "I don't give a shit" attitude that Jones shows when blocking gunners or trying to be a gunner. I don't like it. It seems like he doesn't want to be there, like he thinks he should be strictly offense like Jennings or Driver.

Jones might have a little more raw talent, but I like Jordy's consistency, toughness, completeness and attitude better. This is underrated, but a receiver like Jordy really helps the run game too.