Improve This Article: Reasons Packers Retreated To 6-10

[woodbuck27]

Number one reason is defense...

That passive piece of junk scheme they were running... might as well have been playing flag football.

TT should have gone to a 3-4 the year he was hired... had he??? we would probably be contenders - as it is, even with the needed switch, and even with bringing in an actual 1st round calibur Def. Linemen (Raji), it is going to take a few years to transition.

So, we are into year 5 of TT's regime, and even if we ramp up from here, we're looking at year 8 before we might be considered contenders... that's a lot of wasted years of OJT.

Yes. Pack a big lunch folks because were a long ways from the next station with a really decent hot meal. Were going to walk a ways further before we can get really exited and run.

Let's try to enjoy the ride and view.

GO PACKERS!

[Fritz]

The Packers will do well this year, I think.

I'm excited about the offense - hopeful the running game can be a force. I'm curious about the defense, and if I start screaming at a botched coverage or the oppsoing team's third down conversion, I will try to remember the keystone kops routine of last year's defense and calm down.

[Gunakor]

Number one reason is defense...

That passive piece of junk scheme they were running... might as well have been playing flag football.

TT should have gone to a 3-4 the year he was hired... had he??? we would probably be contenders - as it is, even with the needed switch, and even with bringing in an actual 1st round calibur Def. Linemen (Raji), it is going to take a few years to transition.

So, we are into year 5 of TT's regime, and even if we ramp up from here, we're looking at year 8 before we might be considered contenders... that's a lot of wasted years of OJT.

Yes. Pack a big lunch folks because were a long ways from the next station with a really decent hot meal. Were going to walk a ways further before we can get really exited and run.

Let's try to enjoy the ride and view.

GO PACKERS!

I don't think we're that far away. TT's been drafting 3-4 type players in more than just this past draft - he just hasn't emphasised defense in any except this last one. Jeremy Thompson fits the mold of an OLB much better than a DE, for example, which makes me wonder if he saw this coming even before the 2008 season began, giving us a head start in the transition. I don't know for certain, it's just a thought.

[woodbuck27]

[b]#5. SES syndrome (Seven-Eleven Syndrome).

This team could not close, be it offensively, defensively or on special teams. Despite what the statistics say, this team was horrible in the second half of games. Until this changes they will stay near 6-10.

I've studied this through historical records of the seasons of several teams, over several years going back decades, and have well over 150 data points.

There is absolutely no correlation to anything when it comes to winning/losing close games.

Carolina lost more close ones than they won for about a 4 year stretch, that is the biggest that I could find. If I recall correctly the Packers are +9 in close games W-L since 1970, since 1992 they win them at a rate of 58%, well below the teams non-close rate. This holds true for all teams in the NFL all QB's, over a given length of time, any teams W-L record in games decided by less than a TD is closer to 50% than their record in decisive games.

When a game is close, roll the dice, the winner of the game is practically decided by pure random chance. There is no such thing as a "winner", that closer than wins in the clutch.

In season the team developed negative momentum last year. With a new season, it takes 1 game to break that type of momentum.

That's good research. Interesting stuff Waldo. I believe the best teams just have that strength of attitude and preperation to close out tight games as winners. That is the true measure of an organization in terms of pleasing the fan and owners.

GO PACK GO!

I think Waldo's post suggests that in tight games many times the outcome rests on which way that oblong ball bounces. It's not always the best or most prepared team that wins those close games, sometimes it's just the luckiest. That's why you almost never see teams go 14-0 or 16-0 for the season. You could be the best prepared team in the NFL week in and week out, but over a 17 week season the ball is bound to bounce in the opponents direction at least once or twice in close contests.

I have to hold on this Gunakor. Good preparation trumps good luck because they go hand in hand.

GO PACK GO!

[cheesner]

9. Team Conditioning

Last years defense continually let up late in the game. I feel this issue was a bigger deal to MM and TT than it is considered to be to us fans. I feel the change over in the strength and conditioning coach is an indicator of the degree of seriousness that MM considered this issue. The new S&C coach Redding has stated several times in various interviews how his program stresses endurance as well as strength. I am not sure if this is because he has been told this is important or if he was selected because it is already important in his philosophy - but I am certain it is in direct response to an critical problem with last year's team.

[woodbuck27]

Number one reason is defense...

That passive piece of junk scheme they were running... might as well have been playing flag football.

TT should have gone to a 3-4 the year he was hired... had he??? we would probably be contenders - as it is, even with the needed switch, and even with bringing in an actual 1st round calibur Def. Linemen (Raji), it is going to take a few years to transition.

So, we are into year 5 of TT's regime, and even if we ramp up from here, we're looking at year 8 before we might be considered contenders... that's a lot of wasted years of OJT.

Yes. Pack a big lunch folks because were a long ways from the next station with a really decent hot meal. Were going to walk a ways further before we can get really exited and run.

Let's try to enjoy the ride and view.

GO PACKERS!

I don't think we're that far away. TT's been drafting 3-4 type players in more than just this past draft - he just hasn't emphasised defense in any except this last one. Jeremy Thompson fits the mold of an OLB much better than a DE, for example, which makes me wonder if he saw this coming even before the 2008 season began, giving us a head start in the transition. I don't know for certain, it's just a thought.

Ted Thompson was also a linebacker when he played. That might be a factor in his decision making relative to draft at what positions. It's been awhile since I studied it concerning Ted's drafts, but I beleve the best strategy is to secure depth on the lines.

You need a heady QB with winning ways and a solid ground game as well to secure balance on offense and the respect of opposition defenses. I truly believe or am of the opinion that we're still in transition Gunakor.

GO PACKERS.

[cpk1994]

I'm going to dip into the TexasPackerBacker's playbook:

Injuries. Every team has 'em, sure. No doubt. However, to lose Jenkins and Barnett and to have AJ Hawk and Atari Bigby playing one-armed or one-legged is a lot to overcome.

I'm still glad that Sanders got fired (no glad in terms of wishing him ill), but I do think that maybe 8-8 or perhaps - perhaps - 9-7 was possible if injuries had not played such a major role.

Well, if Mason Crosby makes two kicks(vs. Bears & Vikings), they would have been 8-8. Not blaming him for the losses mind you, but it does show you this team wasn't as bad as the 6-10 record indicates.

[wist43]

Number one reason is defense...

That passive piece of junk scheme they were running... might as well have been playing flag football.

TT should have gone to a 3-4 the year he was hired... had he??? we would probably be contenders - as it is, even with the needed switch, and even with bringing in an actual 1st round calibur Def. Linemen (Raji), it is going to take a few years to transition.

So, we are into year 5 of TT's regime, and even if we ramp up from here, we're looking at year 8 before we might be considered contenders... that's a lot of wasted years of OJT.

Yes. Pack a big lunch folks because were a long ways from the next station with a really decent hot meal. Were going to walk a ways further before we can get really exited and run.

Let's try to enjoy the ride and view.

GO PACKERS!

I don't think we're that far away. TT's been drafting 3-4 type players in more than just this past draft - he just hasn't emphasised defense in any except this last one. Jeremy Thompson fits the mold of an OLB much better than a DE, for example, which makes me wonder if he saw this coming even before the 2008 season began, giving us a head start in the transition. I don't know for certain, it's just a thought.

Ted Thompson was also a linebacker when he played. That might be a factor in his decision making relative to draft at what positions. It's been awhile since I studied it concerning Ted's drafts, but I beleve the best strategy is to secure depth on the lines.

You need a heady QB with winning ways and a solid ground game as well to secure balance on offense and the respect of opposition defenses. I truly believe or am of the opinion that we're still in transition Gunakor.

GO PACKERS.

I'm not saying they'll be bad... just saying they're not a legit contender. The years have a way of ticking by fellas... before ya know it, SB XXXI will be 25 years in the rearview mirror.

We've gone round and round about this for years guys... I want to win championships - most of you guys are content to win the division... we'll always disagree about where the train should be headed.

As for the idea that TT has been drafting 3-4 personnel prior to this year... Jeremy Thompson was drafted with 3-4 foresight??? I think I had forgotten how homerized you guys are

Capers is going to be playing as much, or more 4-3 than he is 3-4 b/c he simply doesn't have enough 3-4 personnel... I saw JT as having some upside as a 4-3 end, but he's a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB; same thing for Kampman... Capers is going to have to play a lot of 4-3 fronts.

[Waldo]

As for the idea that TT has been drafting 3-4 personnel prior to this year... Jeremy Thompson was drafted with 3-4 foresight??? I think I had forgotten how homerized you guys are

Capers is going to be playing as much, or more 4-3 than he is 3-4 b/c he simply doesn't have enough 3-4 personnel... I saw JT as having some upside as a 4-3 end, but he's a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB; same thing for Kampman... Capers is going to have to play a lot of 4-3 fronts.

I really can't see how you think this about JT.

I thought he was a fish out of water as a 4-3 end. The guy's use in college was much more similar to 3-4 OLB. He rushed hands up on occasion, he split out wide on a TE on occasion, he dropped into coverage. He was taught the whole field POV in college and how to play forward and back.

I was surely not alone on draft day in 2008 in thinking that TT had no intention of him being a 4-3 DE. That his ultimate role was joker DE, the role that Jason Taylor played in Miami's hybrid, which was essentially a 4-3 with Taylor having hands up/down option and the ability to pick his gap, with some dropping responsibilities.

[woodbuck27]

9. Team Conditioning

Last years defense continually let up late in the game. I feel this issue was a bigger deal to MM and TT than it is considered to be to us fans. I feel the change over in the strength and conditioning coach is an indicator of the degree of seriousness that MM considered this issue. The new S&C coach Redding has stated several times in various interviews how his program stresses endurance as well as strength. I am not sure if this is because he has been told this is important or if he was selected because it is already important in his philosophy - but I am certain it is in direct response to an critical problem with last year's team.

Good point there and it's a good thing to see a program layed on whereby the team as a whole loses weight. Lean plays mean sorta thing.

GO PACK GO!

[woodbuck27]

Number one reason is defense...

That passive piece of junk scheme they were running... might as well have been playing flag football.

TT should have gone to a 3-4 the year he was hired... had he??? we would probably be contenders - as it is, even with the needed switch, and even with bringing in an actual 1st round calibur Def. Linemen (Raji), it is going to take a few years to transition.

So, we are into year 5 of TT's regime, and even if we ramp up from here, we're looking at year 8 before we might be considered contenders... that's a lot of wasted years of OJT.

Yes. Pack a big lunch folks because were a long ways from the next station with a really decent hot meal. Were going to walk a ways further before we can get really exited and run.

Let's try to enjoy the ride and view.

GO PACKERS!

I don't think we're that far away. TT's been drafting 3-4 type players in more than just this past draft - he just hasn't emphasised defense in any except this last one. Jeremy Thompson fits the mold of an OLB much better than a DE, for example, which makes me wonder if he saw this coming even before the 2008 season began, giving us a head start in the transition. I don't know for certain, it's just a thought.

Ted Thompson was also a linebacker when he played. That might be a factor in his decision making relative to draft at what positions. It's been awhile since I studied it concerning Ted's drafts, but I beleve the best strategy is to secure depth on the lines.

You need a heady QB with winning ways and a solid ground game as well to secure balance on offense and the respect of opposition defenses. I truly believe or am of the opinion that we're still in transition Gunakor.

GO PACKERS.

I'm not saying they'll be bad... just saying they're not a legit contender. The years have a way of ticking by fellas... before ya know it, SB XXXI will be 25 years in the rearview mirror.

We've gone round and round about this for years guys... I want to win championships - most of you guys are content to win the division... we'll always disagree about where the train should be headed.

As for the idea that TT has been drafting 3-4 personnel prior to this year... Jeremy Thompson was drafted with 3-4 foresight??? I think I had forgotten how homerized you guys are

Capers is going to be playing as much, or more 4-3 than he is 3-4 b/c he simply doesn't have enough 3-4 personnel... I saw JT as having some upside as a 4-3 end, but he's a fish out of water as a 3-4 LB; same thing for Kampman... Capers is going to have to play a lot of 4-3 fronts.

Your the fella that see's the LBer position very well.

[Partial]

[b]#5. SES syndrome (Seven-Eleven Syndrome).

This team could not close, be it offensively, defensively or on special teams. Despite what the statistics say, this team was horrible in the second half of games. Until this changes they will stay near 6-10.

I've studied this through historical records of the seasons of several teams, over several years going back decades, and have well over 150 data points.

There is absolutely no correlation to anything when it comes to winning/losing close games.

Carolina lost more close ones than they won for about a 4 year stretch, that is the biggest that I could find. If I recall correctly the Packers are +9 in close games W-L since 1970, since 1992 they win them at a rate of 58%, well below the teams non-close rate. This holds true for all teams in the NFL all QB's, over a given length of time, any teams W-L record in games decided by less than a TD is closer to 50% than their record in decisive games.

When a game is close, roll the dice, the winner of the game is practically decided by pure random chance. There is no such thing as a "winner", that closer than wins in the clutch.

In season the team developed negative momentum last year. With a new season, it takes 1 game to break that type of momentum.

That is interesting to know but it wasn't specifically what I was referring to. Close game or not the Packers weren't very good in the second half. Even against Detroit they blew a big lead and let them back into the game.

My beef with the team is the lack of mental toughness, which is a reflection on the coach. The strangest thing about this to me as MM seems like a pretty mentally strong guy, but to the counterpoint his play calling with the lead could provide some doubt.

As I said in another post, the Packers have the talent to easily get most teams on the floor and in position for the victory. They need to develop a nastiness where they can step on the throat and close it out. AJ Hawk was supposed to be the intimidator to bring this sort of attitude to the team. Hopefully Matthews will help in this regard. They need some toughness.

[Partial]

I think Waldo's post suggests that in tight games many times the outcome rests on which way that oblong ball bounces. It's not always the best or most prepared team that wins those close games, sometimes it's just the luckiest. That's why you almost never see teams go 14-0 or 16-0 for the season. You could be the best prepared team in the NFL week in and week out, but over a 17 week season the ball is bound to bounce in the opponents direction at least once or twice in close contests.

Whoops nevermind I misread the bolded portion of this. My bad.

[pbmax]

We've gone round and round about this for years guys... I want to win championships - most of you guys are content to win the division... we'll always disagree about where the train should be headed.

No one is content to win the division. Its preferable to drafting ninth, but that's about it.

We went 13-3 two years ago and I don't think it was an accident. And that team had holes on both sides of the ball, including your favorite hobby horse, the static 4-3 over.

The reality of the talent is the point of this thread and is probably between 13-3 and 6-10. But its possible Capers will get something new out of this talent on the defensive side, in addition to the two new toys he gets to play with.

By my count, Thompson has drafted 23 defensive players and 27 offensive players without including the kicker. It was his first D heavy draft, but the numbers are pretty balanced, especially since 4 of his 5 first round picks have been for defense and his two most expensive free agent acquisitions were a CB and DT.

[Gunakor]

As for the idea that TT has been drafting 3-4 personnel prior to this year... Jeremy Thompson was drafted with 3-4 foresight??? I think I had forgotten how homerized you guys are

Knock it off wist. What I said was that JT better fits the mold of a 3-4 OLB than that of a 4-3 DE. Whether that was foresight or not, who knows. Certainly not you or I.

I think I must have forgotten what a pessimist you are