Tweet
Originally posted by MJZiggy
-
Actually, the quote is from Mike Vandermause.Thanks Ted! -
Zig didn't say it wasn't. She responded to the point.Originally posted by packrulz
What exactly is yours?Comment
-
Re: Favre
You divide wins by total games played to get a winning percentage. It doesn't matter how many games you have played you aren't using the same demoninator. That way teams that have not played the same number of games can be compared.Originally posted by Tyrone Bigguns
For the Saints 109/296 = .368
For Tampa Bay 62/212 = .292
If Tampa Bay played 84 games to have the same number of total games at that winning percentage they should have won 25 more games and been 87/296 = .293 That's a full 22 wins less than the Saints.
I used 70-89 because the original poster said the Packers were the biggest joke in the 70s and 80s. So I went back the the beginning for the Saints and here is what I get:
121-212-5 for a .358 or 35.8% winning clip well above Tampa.But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim HarmstonComment
-
Re: Favre
I understand what you did, but it is just a false way of looking at it. The issue was being a joke.Originally posted by ThunderDan
Ask yourself..would you rather go 10 years till you are 500 or 3. Would you rather go 20 years till you are above 500 or 3?
Playoffs mean something as do SBs. You can suck like the pack did and still be able to cling to the glory years. The saints didn't have shit for 20 years. The Bucs went to 3 straight playoffs within their 6 years.
Winning percentage doesn't tell the story. Ty would more satsified and so would most fans going to the playoffs and having a worse percentage then not even going 500 for 20 years.
The reason they wore bags is because of the years of frustration. You don't wear bags..well, now you could as the precedent and the idea has been planted...if you have something in the past to cling to.Comment
-
Interesting topic as Snake has swayed several times since the Favre Crisis a year ago as it comes down to this:
The 5 Stages of Coping
1) Denial
-How the hell can the Pack not want a legend like Favre back? Brett can't really be gone can he?
2) Anger
-WTF? 2nd string? He had a beast year last year and was 2nd in MVP votes (2007).
3) Bargaining
-He's meeting with McCarthy. Maybe they can work it out.
4) Depression
-Damn. He's gone. Time to make a Brett Favre tribute video for Youtube (lol...Snake did that last year).
5) Acceptance
-He's been great for the Pack. Now he's just another great, exciting player I love to watch, albeit not for my Pack.
That's about how I look at it, except that #2 means something else for several on PR and they never got past it, instead of going for #5.....
Snake is finally at peace and finds it humorous that so many still feel so strongly 1 way or the other. Time heals all wounds. TT is cool now in Snake's book and so is Brett. Do people bitch about it and hate someone this badly when players jump ships in baseball? Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon? Nope.
Who cares...just let the old bastard play if he wants. I enjoy seeing him play and could care less about the media BS. Whatever though....Snake's Twitter comments would be LEGENDARY.........if I was ugly or gave a shit about Twitter.Comment
-
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/pgSto...002#sport=More Sports&photo=9776462
I thought this on MSN was appropriate for this thread. When the Jets were 8-3 the BF fans were taunting and those who were done with him were saying "wait until the end of the season."
Now the national media is getting shere some of us were last year.The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince LombardiComment
-
[quote="SnakeLH2006"]Interesting topic as Snake has swayed several times since the Favre Crisis a year ago as it comes down to this:
The 5 Stages of Coping
1) Denial
-How the hell can the Pack not want a legend like Favre back? Brett can't really be gone can he?
2) Anger
-WTF? 2nd string? He had a beast year last year and was 2nd in MVP votes (2007).
3) Bargaining
-He's meeting with McCarthy. Maybe they can work it out.
4) Depression
-Damn. He's gone. Time to make a Brett Favre tribute video for Youtube (lol...Snake did that last year).
5) Acceptance
-He's been great for the Pack. Now he's just another great, exciting player I love to watch, albeit not for my Pack.
[\quote]
I think I got to 5 pretty quickly when he was with the Jets.But Rodgers leads the league in frumpy expressions and negative body language on the sideline, which makes him, like Josh Allen, a unique double threat.
-Tim HarmstonComment
-
I'm just fascinated with the guy. It's like seeing a train wreck in slow motion."The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPackComment
-
Might want to ask a Red Sox fan about Clemens playing for the Yankees. Or maybe a Brewer fan about Molitor playing for the Twins.Originally posted by SnakeLH2006Originally posted by 3irty1Comment
-
Why the negativity? Because of what Favre had been built up to be in the eyes of the fans.
A large part of the Favre mystique is that he and the media convinced fans that somehow Favre was different than the typical professional athlete. He was portrayed as what fans want professional athletes to be, as in-love with the team they play for as the fans of the team are. Favre nurtured this image by:
- Distancing himself from the money aspect of professional sports.
- Criticizing team mates who didn't have a "team first" attitude in the way fans wanted.
- Suggesting he would never be a player who hangs on to an eroding career.
- Stating he would rather retire before his skills declined.
- Insisting he would never play for another team after the Packers.
- Humbling himself by saying that if the Packers decided they no longer wanted him, he would simply retire, taking the hint from them about where he and the team were at. This tied into his statements that he would never play for another team after the Packers.
Fans ate it up. Favre became that mythical pro athlete that fans desperately want, the one they think they would be if given the opportunity. Favre played the role and the media and the NFL promoted it at every opportunity.
Fans saw a crack in the facade last year with the way Favre interacted with the team. Continuing it yet again this year, conniving his way out of his contract with the Jets, and longing to play for a chief rival of the Packers has clearly demonstrated that the mythical Favre as he was portrayed to the fans was a sham. He was only a highly skilled performer, but otherwise no different than all the other athletes who have come and gone over the seasons.
Favre is not different than the rank and file professional athlete. He does not have the characteristics that the fans were lead to believe he had by himself, the media and the NFL. Some fans feel lied to and duped as a result; and yes, they are angry. We can say those fans were naive to begin with, but the brainwashing regarding Favre had gone on for years and years, and was nonstop.
That is the reason for the negativity.Comment
-
Patler-
I would say not only the fans were brainwashed into believing BF was that guy, but so was Favre himself.
I believe that he believed everything he said when he said it. Things were going great and he was happy and he believed his own fairy tale.
It was easy when he was handed everything and nobody questioned him. Remember, the true test of character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching. BF failed that test because when he was expected to practice and like, you know, show up to OTA's and set an example for the young guys his fairy tale fell apart and he failed the character test.
The thing that steams me about it is that his '07 season proved that MM and TT were right. When he worked with their personal trainer in the offseason and came to OTA's (and accepted coaching about throwing it up for grabs) he responded with his best season in about 10 years. You would think he would have figured out it was worth it, but when the next offseason came he felt vindicated as Brent the Great so he could go back to sitting at home, doing nothing and showing up for training camp.
The real reason some of us have such vitriol towards him is that we saw him for what he was long ago, but dared not speak out for fear of the backlash. Now we feel vindicated and we are taking every opportunity to dig at those that were blind before. Is that mature on my/our part....probably not. What can I say, I try and pass that same character test of knowing I'm right should be good enough, but sometimes I fail it myself.The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince LombardiComment
-
I would quibble a bit and say three years. Favre, under the duress of the end of his career became (or exposed himself as) a prima donna. It's a hard pill to swallow for Favre fans like me.Originally posted by bobblehead"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - WoodbuckComment
-
I had forgotten about that last item in Patler's list.Originally posted by Patler
Another force at work here is the media's echo chamber effect. Many commentators bought into the hype as well. Overlooking evidence of his weaknesses (which were actually well chronicled until after the first MVP and the Vicodin rehab and in full display even in Holmgren's last year) he was judged by a standard where he was either successful or put in a position where success was not possible (he only threw those interceptions when he was behind late).
When his play began to decline and playoff success became more difficult, there was a tremendous backlash, first by fans (most of them from other teams tired of Favre, but also some Packer fans) that eventually transmitted to media commentators. Some were thoughtful and consistent (Dr. Z, although even Z tended to critique Favre by blaming the coverage and coaching) some were weather vanes of conventional wisdom (Cowherd).
But because everyone (including folks who reasonably concluded on this very board that some critics had gone way too far in the other direction) was reacting to the coverage, few were paying attention to his game, which had changed dramatically after his injuries in 99 and 00. Whether the thumb injury was the cause, or its timing just coincided with age and erosion of his ability to escape hits, I don't know.
But he was purely a pocket passer from that point of his career and he was in no mind to get crushed by hits as he threw. He developed and retained an uncanny ability to sense pressure and get the throw off before the hit. But the timing in the pocket did not always sync with his receivers being open or following his progression. Troy Aikman was done in by repeated shots to his head as he tried to throw on rhythm and timing by staying in the pocket, waiting for the proper time and then getting blasted. That stubbornness ended his career. Favre changed his game to survive. On JSO today you can see a picture of Favre knocked woozy by Kevin Greene in a Steeler's game in 95. He took fewer of those shots as he got older. Good for his health, not necessarily good for the team.
He was still a very effective QB as demonstrated by his resurgence with the OLine and Ahman Green in 01 and 02. And by his year in 07. But he wasn't the same QB as 95-97. He was at a level where he could be effectively replaced by a rookie starter; though that player was in his 4th year in the league and had been a 1st round pick. He wasn't terrible, but he was much closer to average. If he was a linebacker, no one would have minded him being replaced by a younger and cheaper player. But by 2008, no one paid attention to Brett Favre's game skills, they paid attention to his reputation. And that reputation was either a cause for rallying (people are too quick to write him off) or protest (overated and done). The overreaction was in part because fans could no longer agree on just how good a QB he actually was.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
-
A reasonable position. Personally, I have accepted the situation but not choose to forget everything that happened. To the extent that I dislike actions that are intended to hurt my favorite team, I dislike Favre's actions. Laugh at me if you must, but I'm not so sure my position is more humorous than your own.Originally posted by SnakeLH2006Interesting topic as Snake has swayed several times since the Favre Crisis a year ago as it comes down to this:
The 5 Stages of Coping
1) Denial
-How the hell can the Pack not want a legend like Favre back? Brett can't really be gone can he?
2) Anger
-WTF? 2nd string? He had a beast year last year and was 2nd in MVP votes (2007).
3) Bargaining
-He's meeting with McCarthy. Maybe they can work it out.
4) Depression
-Damn. He's gone. Time to make a Brett Favre tribute video for Youtube (lol...Snake did that last year).
5) Acceptance
-He's been great for the Pack. Now he's just another great, exciting player I love to watch, albeit not for my Pack.
That's about how I look at it, except that #2 means something else for several on PR and they never got past it, instead of going for #5..... Snake is finally at peace and finds it humorous that so many still feel so strongly 1 way or the other. Time heals all wounds. TT is cool now in Snake's book and so is Brett. Do people bitch about it and hate someone this badly when players jump ships in baseball? Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon? Nope.
Who cares...just let the old bastard play if he wants. I enjoy seeing him play and could care less about the media BS. Whatever though....
Comment
-
Snake, sometimes you write some smart stuff, but this time, not so much.Originally posted by SnakeLH2006Interesting topic as Snake has swayed several times since the Favre Crisis a year ago as it comes down to this:
The 5 Stages of Coping
1) Denial
-How the hell can the Pack not want a legend like Favre back? Brett can't really be gone can he?
2) Anger
-WTF? 2nd string? He had a beast year last year and was 2nd in MVP votes (2007).
3) Bargaining
-He's meeting with McCarthy. Maybe they can work it out.
4) Depression
-Damn. He's gone. Time to make a Brett Favre tribute video for Youtube (lol...Snake did that last year).
5) Acceptance
-He's been great for the Pack. Now he's just another great, exciting player I love to watch, albeit not for my Pack.
That's about how I look at it, except that #2 means something else for several on PR and they never got past it, instead of going for #5..... Snake is finally at peace and finds it humorous that so many still feel so strongly 1 way or the other. Time heals all wounds. TT is cool now in Snake's book and so is Brett. Do people bitch about it and hate someone this badly when players jump ships in baseball? Wade Boggs, Johnny Damon? Nope.
Who cares...just let the old bastard play if he wants. I enjoy seeing him play and could care less about the media BS. Whatever though....
Neither Damon or Boggs ever was revered by the media, fans, etc....and acted like Favre..all the things patler wrote.
Fuck, why even bring up damon? By the time he got to the Sox it was his 3rd team.
Boggs: Man, he left at free agency...and yes, there were some fans pretty darn miffed. But, Boggs left after a subpar season..and his career was winding down. Again, Boggs isn't even in the same category as Favre...with the love, the adulation, nor the aspects of that Patler mentioned.
But, more importantly, in order for Boggs to stay..he had to be offered a contract. He wasn't. Duquette was reviled by Sox Nation..and when Boggs left the team was in turmoil as Jean Yawkey had just taken over.Comment
Comment