Harrell: Still Not Impressive

[rbaloha1]

Not good news. TT drafted JH based on Reggie McKenzie -- "Mr. Tennessee."

Motivation has always been an issue with JH. How much has JH collected in signing bonus $?

Unfortunately JH may have a decent career after being cut by the Packers.

[Partial]

Way too soon to tell. The JSO accounts as far as I know were mostly positive. Could just be somebody looking for web traffic. I have ZERO expectations for Harrell because I don't know what to expect. I think people blow out of proportion how well he played when healthy (I don't think he did very much personally), but at the same time I'm not ready to cut him yet either.

We'll see what he does in camp. If he's healthy he will be a nice player to have. If he's not, well, he probably never will be. We already have one perpetually injured linemen in CJ, so lets hope this guy is finally healthy for good.

[vince]

It's often difficult to tell how productive DT's are when their responsibility is to plug a gap (or 2) and keep others clean to make tackles, especially when they don't play in passing situations.

I can't find the link, but I recall that his rookie year, he led all D-Linemen by a fairly wide margin in tackles per snap.

[channtheman]

I don't know if we should have ever expected much out of Harrell due to his track record in college. This was also a very uncharacteristic pick by TT. Harrell had not produced at the collegiate level and also was injury prone. If you look at Jennings and Rodgers, etc. they were very good in college and had already produced for multiple seasons.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Does getting pancaked by an OL because your back can't support you but when you fall you take out 2 OL due to the fact they trip over you count as making a good play? After all, he did tie up some blockers.

[Packnut]

Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Look, I don't give a rat's ass how much anyone loves Teddy, but the TRUTH is just as great as the Jennings pick was, the Harrell pick was just as BRUTAL! The guy is still in-mature and has a very poor work ethic. When you are an NFL player, you stay in shape 12 months out of 12 months. You don't take time out and eat everything in sight, and no one is gonna tell me he did'nt have the same problems in college. He just did'nt start to eat like a pig when he became a pro. Very poor job of research by Teddy and the scouting dept.

It's time THIS debate is put to rest once and for all. Harrell was a bad pick PERIOD!

[denverYooper]

Besides, I thought an end in the 3-4 was pretty much supposed to hold the point and free up linebackers? If that's so, then aren't sacks from a defensive end a bonus in the 3-4, no matter what the name on the jersey is?

Agree 100%. If he can occupy blockers effectively, then he'll be an effective player in this D.

Also, not that I've ever been a guy who sticks up for Harrell, but how much can you really tell about a guy coming off an injury when he's playing in shorts in June? Maybe he was playing it safe, maybe the coaches told him to take it easy, who knows?

If he looks slow in training camp and preseason, then I'll take it more seriously.

Here here. I'm on the wait-and-see train at this point. The last thing they need him to do is to come out and re-injure himself by trying to kill it in the Spring. My guess is that they were taking it easy with his back for now.

[hoosier]

Re: Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Look, I don't give a rat's ass how much anyone loves Teddy, but the TRUTH is just as great as the Jennings pick was, the Harrell pick was just as BRUTAL! The guy is still in-mature and has a very poor work ethic. When you are an NFL player, you stay in shape 12 months out of 12 months. You don't take time out and eat everything in sight, and no one is gonna tell me he did'nt have the same problems in college. He just did'nt start to eat like a pig when he became a pro. Very poor job of research by Teddy and the scouting dept.

It's time THIS debate is put to rest once and for all. Harrell was a bad pick PERIOD!

We don't have access to the medical reports the Packers looked at, so while it's easy to play armchair QB and say that Harrell has always been injury prone and that TT made a bad gamble, his overall drafting philosophy seems to be well conceived and successful, so I doubt very much that he just had a brain fart that day and made a dumb pick. It was a gamble, yes, and when big gambles fail they look bad.

As I see it, your comparison of Jennings and Harrell picks leaves out an important point. Maybe two points, if you count the fact that Harrell is only going into his third year and could still turn it around. It certainly looks unlikely at this point, but stranger things have happened. The point you are ignoring, though, is that the failure rate for 1st round picks is actually quite high regardless of who's doing the drafting. The draft is a crapshoot. Look at the history of GB 1st round picks since 1987. I count 9 in 21 drafts who either failed miserably or never lived up to their billing. The bust rate was highest from 1987-92, and lowest from 1993-98. But if Harrell proves to be a bust, it wouldn't be at all unusual in the bigger historical picture.

2007 16 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
2006 5 A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State
2005 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
2004 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
2003 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
2002 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State
2001 10 Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State
2000 14 Bubba Franks TE Miami (Fla.)
1999 25 Antuan Edwards CB Clemson
1998 19 Vonnie Holliday DE North Carolina
1997 30 Ross Verba T Iowa
1996 27 John Michels T USC
1995 32 Craig Newsome CB Arizona State
1994 16 Aaron Taylor G Notre Dame
1993 15 Wayne Simmons OLB Clemson
1993 29 George Teague FS Alabama
1992 5 Terrell Buckley CB Florida State
1991 19 Vinnie Clark CB Ohio State
1990 18 Tony Bennett LB Mississippi
1990 19 Darrell Thompson RB Minnesota
1989 2 Tony Mandarich OT Michigan State
1988 7 Sterling Sharpe WR South Carolina
1987 4 Brent Fullwood RB Auburn

[Bossman641]

Re: Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Look, I don't give a rat's ass how much anyone loves Teddy, but the TRUTH is just as great as the Jennings pick was, the Harrell pick was just as BRUTAL! The guy is still in-mature and has a very poor work ethic. When you are an NFL player, you stay in shape 12 months out of 12 months. You don't take time out and eat everything in sight, and no one is gonna tell me he did'nt have the same problems in college. He just did'nt start to eat like a pig when he became a pro. Very poor job of research by Teddy and the scouting dept.

It's time THIS debate is put to rest once and for all. Harrell was a bad pick PERIOD!

Even if you want to go ahead and write Harrell off now, the simple truth is that BUSTS HAPPEN. Look at TT's overall track record of drafting rather than 1 pick. If you judged every GM in the league on how their first round picks have performed there wouldn't be a single successful GM around.

[Packnut]

Re: Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Look, I don't give a rat's ass how much anyone loves Teddy, but the TRUTH is just as great as the Jennings pick was, the Harrell pick was just as BRUTAL! The guy is still in-mature and has a very poor work ethic. When you are an NFL player, you stay in shape 12 months out of 12 months. You don't take time out and eat everything in sight, and no one is gonna tell me he did'nt have the same problems in college. He just did'nt start to eat like a pig when he became a pro. Very poor job of research by Teddy and the scouting dept.

It's time THIS debate is put to rest once and for all. Harrell was a bad pick PERIOD!

We don't have access to the medical reports the Packers looked at, so while it's easy to play armchair QB and say that Harrell has always been injury prone and that TT made a bad gamble, his overall drafting philosophy seems to be well conceived and successful, so I doubt very much that he just had a brain fart that day and made a dumb pick. It was a gamble, yes, and when big gambles fail they look bad.

As I see it, your comparison of Jennings and Harrell picks leaves out an important point. Maybe two points, if you count the fact that Harrell is only going into his third year and could still turn it around. It certainly looks unlikely at this point, but stranger things have happened. The point you are ignoring, though, is that the failure rate for 1st round picks is actually quite high regardless of who's doing the drafting. The draft is a crapshoot. Look at the history of GB 1st round picks since 1987. I count 9 in 21 drafts who either failed miserably or never lived up to their billing. The bust rate was highest from 1987-92, and lowest from 1993-98. But if Harrell proves to be a bust, it wouldn't be at all unusual in the bigger historical picture.

2007 16 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee
2006 5 A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State
2005 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
2004 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
2003 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
2002 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State
2001 10 Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State
2000 14 Bubba Franks TE Miami (Fla.)
1999 25 Antuan Edwards CB Clemson
1998 19 Vonnie Holliday DE North Carolina
1997 30 Ross Verba T Iowa
1996 27 John Michels T USC
1995 32 Craig Newsome CB Arizona State
1994 16 Aaron Taylor G Notre Dame
1993 15 Wayne Simmons OLB Clemson
1993 29 George Teague FS Alabama
1992 5 Terrell Buckley CB Florida State
1991 19 Vinnie Clark CB Ohio State
1990 18 Tony Bennett LB Mississippi
1990 19 Darrell Thompson RB Minnesota
1989 2 Tony Mandarich OT Michigan State
1988 7 Sterling Sharpe WR South Carolina
1987 4 Brent Fullwood RB Auburn

If you read what I posted, you'll see I'm not debating the "all GM's make bad 1st rd picks". I also fail to understand the "not having access to the medical reports". It was WELL PUBLICISED that Harrell had an injury history dating back to freakin HS BEFORE the draft. Also, with all the detailed investigative work teams put into high draft picks, you can't tell me they did'nt know Justin can't say no to his mama's cooking. Now I know Gilbert never met a cheeseburger he did'nt like, but the gravedigger was not the 16th pick in the draft.

My criticism of this pick CANNOT be construed as "armchair QBing". I was clearly on record here as touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE the draft. Both of them have been much more productive then Harrell. Nelson was all-rookie and what Bowe has done considering he has'nt had anything better than a HS QB throwing to him is damned impressive.

Last but not least, holding out hope that he turns it around is nothing but a fairy tale. The fact that he is STILL overweight and STILL laughs about his eating habits and not being able to stay disiplined, does not give anyone any logical reason to believe he's gonna change anytime soon.

[Zool]

Might want to check every draft ever and see how many bad picks are followed by a series of really good picks. It doesn't matter the sport either. Just because you 'touted' 2 guys doesn't mean a whole lot. Means that you guessed right. I'd bet you touted quite a few guys that turned out to be giant piles of turd also. If you have a better than 25% accuracy rate at evaluating talent, you might want to look into a scouting position for a football team somewhere.

[Packnut]

Re: Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Look, I don't give a rat's ass how much anyone loves Teddy, but the TRUTH is just as great as the Jennings pick was, the Harrell pick was just as BRUTAL! The guy is still in-mature and has a very poor work ethic. When you are an NFL player, you stay in shape 12 months out of 12 months. You don't take time out and eat everything in sight, and no one is gonna tell me he did'nt have the same problems in college. He just did'nt start to eat like a pig when he became a pro. Very poor job of research by Teddy and the scouting dept.

It's time THIS debate is put to rest once and for all. Harrell was a bad pick PERIOD!

Even if you want to go ahead and write Harrell off now, the simple truth is that BUSTS HAPPEN. Look at TT's overall track record of drafting rather than 1 pick. If you judged every GM in the league on how their first round picks have performed there wouldn't be a single successful GM around.

Again, I am not debating the "every GM makes a bad 1st rd pick". What I am saying is that 99.9% of those bad picks were not because of ignoring an injury history or bad eating habits.

It's just time to stop making the excuses. That's all I'm saying. If people wanna give TT a pass cause all GM's blow picks, that's fine with me but it's time for EVERYONE to at least admit that is was a "BRUTAL FREAKIN PICK"!

And one more thing. The majority of fans on hand when Teddy picked Harrell booed the crap out of him. As it turned out, THEY WERE RIGHT!

[Patler]

Re: Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Are you suggesting that Harrell was not at Tennessee for 4 years? Technically, I guess you are correct, because he was there 5 years, redshirting as a freshman. Establishing himself? Did that too:

Defensive Captain as a senior.
Begged coaching staff to play vs. Florida after surgery-requiring biceps injury in previous week.
Started all 11 games as a Junior.
intercepted two passes during the season, returned one for a TD
2 1/2 sackes, 3 deflected passes, 7 1/2 stops behind LOS
SEC D-lineman of the week in week 1.
SEC all conference 2nd team
Started 11 of 12 games as a sophmore, limited in the last game due to sprained ankle.
Returned from ankle injury to earn Cotton Bowl Defensive MVP Award.
Played in 8 games as a redshirt Freshman, missing first 5 with broken ankle.
Redshirted his first year at TN, in Fall 2002.

He broke his ankle and tore a biceps tendon. Other than that he had the common bruises and sprains that all players get from time to time. He played in 35 games with 25 starts even though he missed all but 3 as a senior.

His injury history, if compared to many other players in college, is blown out of proportion.

Sure, there was some risk with Harrell, but not a disproportionate amount of risk.

Ahmad Carroll? - bypassed his senior year to declare for the draft. started for just over 2 seasons.

Javon Walker? - played 2 years in Junior College, and 2 years at Florida. Was a starter for only one season at Florida, had just 20 receptions the other season as a non-starter.

Harrell, Carroll, Walker - who really had the better college resume?

[Zool]

Florida State

I GOT PATLER!!! I GOT PATLER!!!

[Packnut]

Difference

Might want to check every draft ever and see how many bad picks are followed by a series of really good picks. It doesn't matter the sport either. Just because you 'touted' 2 guys doesn't mean a whole lot. Means that you guessed right. I'd bet you touted quite a few guys that turned out to be giant piles of turd also. If you have a better than 25% accuracy rate at evaluating talent, you might want to look into a scouting position for a football team somewhere.

Ah but the difference all mighty Zool is that I don't have access to investigative reports or interviews with the guys he played with or the coaching staff. I also don't get paid a whole lotta green to be right.

My opinions come from watching a ton of NCAA ball because as I have admitted to in the past, I have a gambling addiction to college ball. For some strange reason, you pay a whole lot more attention to something when your hard earned money is involved.

There are some knowledgable people here on college football but it's pretty much confined to the conference they follow. I have to know as much as I can about EVERY team. There is even money to be made in the Sun Belt conference or the IVY league!