Harrell: Still Not Impressive

[sharpe1027]

Re: Harrell

If you read what I posted, you'll see I'm not debating the "all GM's make bad 1st rd picks". I also fail to understand the "not having access to the medical reports". It was WELL PUBLICISED that Harrell had an injury history dating back to freakin HS BEFORE the draft. Also, with all the detailed investigative work teams put into high draft picks, you can't tell me they did'nt know Justin can't say no to his mama's cooking. Now I know Gilbert never met a cheeseburger he did'nt like, but the gravedigger was not the 16th pick in the draft.

My criticism of this pick CANNOT be construed as "armchair QBing". I was clearly on record here as touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE the draft. Both of them have been much more productive then Harrell. Nelson was all-rookie and what Bowe has done considering he has'nt had anything better than a HS QB throwing to him is damned impressive.

Last but not least, holding out hope that he turns it around is nothing but a fairy tale. The fact that he is STILL overweight and STILL laughs about his eating habits and not being able to stay disiplined, does not give anyone any logical reason to believe he's gonna change anytime soon.

Before his biceps injury he was considered by many to be a top 10 pick and by some a top 5 pick. Was picking him at 16 a risk? Sure it was. Was it anywhere near as stupid as you claim? IMHO, no. The whole idea of taking a risk is that it may turn out bad. Injuries are funny, some guys have a rash of them and then never have another for the rest of their carreers. Others are completely healthy for years and then, suddenly, can't stay on the field.

A. Peterson was another player that dropped because of well-documented injury concerns. Was the Vikings pick of him a risk? Yep. If he had reinjured his shoulder there would be posters bitching about picking him using the same logic as you have used for Harrell.

I could probalby list another dozen examples of similiar risks that worked out, but the idea is the same. Picking Harrell was a risk that hasn't worked out. No more, no less.

[Packnut]

Re: Harrell

If you read what I posted, you'll see I'm not debating the "all GM's make bad 1st rd picks". I also fail to understand the "not having access to the medical reports". It was WELL PUBLICISED that Harrell had an injury history dating back to freakin HS BEFORE the draft. Also, with all the detailed investigative work teams put into high draft picks, you can't tell me they did'nt know Justin can't say no to his mama's cooking. Now I know Gilbert never met a cheeseburger he did'nt like, but the gravedigger was not the 16th pick in the draft.

My criticism of this pick CANNOT be construed as "armchair QBing". I was clearly on record here as touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE the draft. Both of them have been much more productive then Harrell. Nelson was all-rookie and what Bowe has done considering he has'nt had anything better than a HS QB throwing to him is damned impressive.

Last but not least, holding out hope that he turns it around is nothing but a fairy tale. The fact that he is STILL overweight and STILL laughs about his eating habits and not being able to stay disiplined, does not give anyone any logical reason to believe he's gonna change anytime soon.

Before his biceps injury he was considered by many to be a top 10 pick and by some a top 5 pick. Was picking him at 16 a risk? Sure it was. Was it anywhere near as stupid as you claim? IMHO, no. The whole idea of taking a risk is that it may turn out bad. Injuries are funny, some guys have a rash of them and then never have another for the rest of their carreers. Others are completely healthy for years and then, suddenly, can't stay on the field.

A. Peterson was another player that dropped because of well-documented injury concerns. Was the Vikings pick of him a risk? Yep. If he had reinjured his shoulder there would be posters bitching about picking him using the same logic as you have used for Harrell.

I could probalby list another dozen examples of similiar risks that worked out, but the idea is the same. Picking Harrell was a risk that hasn't worked out. No more, no less.

No there were a small minority touting him as a top 10 pick. The OVERWHELMING majority were not. Don't go back and try to change history in order to support an opinion.

[SkinBasket]

I can't believe some people still defend Sherman's drafting ability.

Guess what's the first picture that pops up when you google Sherman?

[hoosier]

Re: Harrell

If you read what I posted, you'll see I'm not debating the "all GM's make bad 1st rd picks". I also fail to understand the "not having access to the medical reports". It was WELL PUBLICISED that Harrell had an injury history dating back to freakin HS BEFORE the draft. Also, with all the detailed investigative work teams put into high draft picks, you can't tell me they did'nt know Justin can't say no to his mama's cooking. Now I know Gilbert never met a cheeseburger he did'nt like, but the gravedigger was not the 16th pick in the draft.

I read your post. The problem is, you can't always neatly separate draft picks who fail because of injury from ones who fail for other reasons. Harrell might well be case in point: is his failure attributable to a chronic bad back, a lack of maturity, a lack of discipline, or some combination of those?

So your theory is that the Packers decided to overlook what everyone else knew, that Harrell was injury prone and likely to eat himself out of the league. What would possess them to ignore the obvious and risk wasting a mid 1st round pick on a guy who was destined to be a bust? Are you so sure of what you read in "well publicized" scouting reports that you think an NFL team with all its resources couldn't know something you don't?

The much more likely--and reasonable--hypothesis, IMO, is that TT and the Packers had reason to believe that Harrell was worth the risk. I say that's more likely because in all respects TT has shown himself to be a competent, well-organized GM. The idea of him taking risky or stupid Al Davis-like gambles on players just doesn't make sense. But the draft is always a risk, which is another way of saying that there will always be guys like Harrell who disappoint. And when they do, some fans will begin asking how they could possibly have been so stupid as to take a chance when X, Y or Z risk factors were well publicized and known by everyone.

My criticism of this pick CANNOT be construed as "armchair QBing". I was clearly on record here as touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE the draft. Both of them have been much more productive then Harrell. Nelson was all-rookie and what Bowe has done considering he has'nt had anything better than a HS QB throwing to him is damned impressive.

It is arm chair QBing if you selectively focus on the cases where your ideal pick succeeded whereas TT's real pick failed. You need to provide a list of all your draft picks since 2005 and then we can talk about comparing your judgment with TT's.

Last but not least, holding out hope that he turns it around is nothing but a fairy tale. The fact that he is STILL overweight and STILL laughs about his eating habits and not being able to stay disiplined, does not give anyone any logical reason to believe he's gonna change anytime soon.

Where does it say that Harrell laughs about his eating habits?

[sharpe1027]

Re: Harrell

No there were a small minority touting him as a top 10 pick. The OVERWHELMING majority were not. Don't go back and try to change history in order to support an opinion.

IDK, he was projected in the first round for sure. You pretty much ignored the point of my post.

[Guiness]

Re: Harrell

If you read what I posted, you'll see I'm not debating the "all GM's make bad 1st rd picks". I also fail to understand the "not having access to the medical reports". It was WELL PUBLICISED that Harrell had an injury history dating back to freakin HS BEFORE the draft. Also, with all the detailed investigative work teams put into high draft picks, you can't tell me they did'nt know Justin can't say no to his mama's cooking. Now I know Gilbert never met a cheeseburger he did'nt like, but the gravedigger was not the 16th pick in the draft.

My criticism of this pick CANNOT be construed as "armchair QBing". I was clearly on record here as touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE the draft. Both of them have been much more productive then Harrell. Nelson was all-rookie and what Bowe has done considering he has'nt had anything better than a HS QB throwing to him is damned impressive.

Last but not least, holding out hope that he turns it around is nothing but a fairy tale. The fact that he is STILL overweight and STILL laughs about his eating habits and not being able to stay disiplined, does not give anyone any logical reason to believe he's gonna change anytime soon.

Don't know why I'm bothering, but I guess it's to deter others from thinking you've got a point...

Where we got Harrel, he was not a reach, he was a good choice. When he played (and yes, that is a 'when'. That's important) he dominated at the highest level of college ball. If he'd played more, no way does he end up in the second half of the first round.

The overweight/out of shape in second year thing has been beaten to death. Harell's got the body of a 4-3 DT. Ya, he doesn't look great in shorts, although better than some. But he wasn't gone long enough to fall off the wagon and pack on the pounds that a reporter or two claimed, that he had. And there's enough suspicion to think Rock Gullickson might've planted a rumour or two to try and cover his ass.

[channtheman]

Re: Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Look, I don't give a rat's ass how much anyone loves Teddy, but the TRUTH is just as great as the Jennings pick was, the Harrell pick was just as BRUTAL! The guy is still in-mature and has a very poor work ethic. When you are an NFL player, you stay in shape 12 months out of 12 months. You don't take time out and eat everything in sight, and no one is gonna tell me he did'nt have the same problems in college. He just did'nt start to eat like a pig when he became a pro. Very poor job of research by Teddy and the scouting dept.

It's time THIS debate is put to rest once and for all. Harrell was a bad pick PERIOD!

I think that right there destroys your argument. Multiple dumb picks by Sherman versus one for TT that appears to be against how he has drafted in the past and as of now doesn't look like it will pan out.

[vince]

Re: Harrell

Last but not least, holding out hope that he turns it around is nothing but a fairy tale. The fact that he is STILL overweight and STILL laughs about his eating habits and not being able to stay disiplined, does not give anyone any logical reason to believe he's gonna change anytime soon.

Which is the guy with the bad eating habits and should obviously have been avoided at all costs?

[Lurker64]

B.J. Raji should not be wearing tight pants.

[Bossman641]

Re: Harrell

The DIFFERENCE between Thompson's Harrell pick and Sherman's dumb picks is very significant. At least Sheman's picks did not have INJURY written all over them. Most of his picks also played 4 yrs of college ball and had established themselves.

Look, I don't give a rat's ass how much anyone loves Teddy, but the TRUTH is just as great as the Jennings pick was, the Harrell pick was just as BRUTAL! The guy is still in-mature and has a very poor work ethic. When you are an NFL player, you stay in shape 12 months out of 12 months. You don't take time out and eat everything in sight, and no one is gonna tell me he did'nt have the same problems in college. He just did'nt start to eat like a pig when he became a pro. Very poor job of research by Teddy and the scouting dept.

It's time THIS debate is put to rest once and for all. Harrell was a bad pick PERIOD!

Even if you want to go ahead and write Harrell off now, the simple truth is that BUSTS HAPPEN. Look at TT's overall track record of drafting rather than 1 pick. If you judged every GM in the league on how their first round picks have performed there wouldn't be a single successful GM around.

Again, I am not debating the "every GM makes a bad 1st rd pick". What I am saying is that 99.9% of those bad picks were not because of ignoring an injury history or bad eating habits.

It's just time to stop making the excuses. That's all I'm saying. If people wanna give TT a pass cause all GM's blow picks, that's fine with me but it's time for EVERYONE to at least admit that is was a "BRUTAL FREAKIN PICK"!

And one more thing. The majority of fans on hand when Teddy picked Harrell booed the crap out of him. As it turned out, THEY WERE RIGHT!

The majority of fans also were furious with TT for picking Jennings over Jackson. The majority of draft "experts" like Kiper also had Jennings as a reach.

I'm not defending Harrell. It looks like he is a bust and if he can turn into part of the rotation I will be happy. I just don't see the point in getting hung up on a bad draft pick. I'm sure there were plenty of other draft guys you liked who didn't turn out, just as I'm sure there were a lot of FA's you liked who haven't done anything. TT took a risk, and it looks like it won't pay off. Oh well.

[AV David]

I live in suburban Minneapolis and had an endzone seat at the 2008 Packer/Viking game at the Dome.

Harrell was only in the game for 8 - 10 plays but I watched him intently when he was. As the Vikings were coming toward my endzone, I had a pretty good look at Harrell from behind the defense.

On one play he was double teamed on a run, anchored and was not appreciably driven back. The play was stacked up at the line for little or no gain.

The next play was an off tackle play to the offensive right. He engaged, moved laterally to his left and was in on the tackle. This play too resulted in little or no gain.

It was a very small sample, but on those 2 plays, he looked like a legitimate professional football player.

[hoosier]

B.J. Raji should not be wearing tight pants.

Agreed, but at least he has a shirt on.

[mission]

B.J. Raji should not be wearing tight pants.

Bulge aside (i tried not to look), he has ridiculous thighs. Like ... REDWOOD TREES!





(pause)

[Gunakor]

Re: Harrell

It was WELL PUBLICISED that Harrell had an injury history dating back to freakin HS BEFORE the draft.

Was it just as well publicized that Harrell didn't spend a full 4 years at Tennessee?

[Gunakor]

Re: Harrell

If you read what I posted, you'll see I'm not debating the "all GM's make bad 1st rd picks". I also fail to understand the "not having access to the medical reports". It was WELL PUBLICISED that Harrell had an injury history dating back to freakin HS BEFORE the draft. Also, with all the detailed investigative work teams put into high draft picks, you can't tell me they did'nt know Justin can't say no to his mama's cooking. Now I know Gilbert never met a cheeseburger he did'nt like, but the gravedigger was not the 16th pick in the draft.

My criticism of this pick CANNOT be construed as "armchair QBing". I was clearly on record here as touting Bowe and Nelson BEFORE the draft. Both of them have been much more productive then Harrell. Nelson was all-rookie and what Bowe has done considering he has'nt had anything better than a HS QB throwing to him is damned impressive.

Last but not least, holding out hope that he turns it around is nothing but a fairy tale. The fact that he is STILL overweight and STILL laughs about his eating habits and not being able to stay disiplined, does not give anyone any logical reason to believe he's gonna change anytime soon.

Before his biceps injury he was considered by many to be a top 10 pick and by some a top 5 pick. Was picking him at 16 a risk? Sure it was. Was it anywhere near as stupid as you claim? IMHO, no. The whole idea of taking a risk is that it may turn out bad. Injuries are funny, some guys have a rash of them and then never have another for the rest of their carreers. Others are completely healthy for years and then, suddenly, can't stay on the field.

A. Peterson was another player that dropped because of well-documented injury concerns. Was the Vikings pick of him a risk? Yep. If he had reinjured his shoulder there would be posters bitching about picking him using the same logic as you have used for Harrell.

I could probalby list another dozen examples of similiar risks that worked out, but the idea is the same. Picking Harrell was a risk that hasn't worked out. No more, no less.

No there were a small minority touting him as a top 10 pick. The OVERWHELMING majority were not. Don't go back and try to change history in order to support an opinion.

Before his biceps injury he was considered by many to be a top 10 pick...

He's not changing history at all. Had he declared after his monster junior season when healthy he'd have gone top 10. He stuck around for his senior season, got hurt, and his draft value fell. That's what happened.