JS Jolly article

[cpk1994]

I said ONE reason. When a paper loses its cred, it's dead in the water. No one thinks NYT is there for entertainment which is why it's surviving as well as it is. It's kept its reputation as a more serious news outlet.

I know this maybe a shock, but the NYT isn't surviving well. Their paper is gong down the crapper, losing subscribers left and right, because of its far left tatics.

So all newspapers are suffering for the reasons listed by Ty (please also add the decline in Classfied Ads specifically-Craig's List) but the NYT is suffering especially for its far left tactics? Please provide links to back this up.

Their subscriber base has been dropping faster than any other newspaper. Especially after the beating Abu Garaib into the ground well after every other news outlet quit reporting on it and after being caught outright making up stories.

[cpk1994]

And I am going to drop the politcal stuff right here before it gets out of hand.

[Waldo]

{ilr]3]After reading through that article I am starting to wonder how much longer he will be on the roster. I think he will be a restricted free agent next year.

Seems to be the coaching staff have real questions about his character

Jolly was far from well-paid - as a sixth-round pick in '06, he received a four-year, $1.705 million contract from the Packers, which included a modest signing bonus of $94,600 - but it didn't stop him from acting, according to one teammate, as if he was "big money."

The way he carried himself and his conduct led the Packers to question how Jolly would handle being given a contract extension, a source said. The Packers held the same concerns about Corey Williams, another defensive lineman. He was traded in '08 by the Packers and given his big contract by the Cleveland Browns.

Even if he plays well, I bet he gets offered up as trade bait like Corey Williams

Big difference though between Williams and Jolly is that Williams was a sack artist DT, Jolly is more of a run stuffer type.

Williams is worth WAY more. Heck Cole was at least capable (generously overstating) of playing both DT positions and really has it in him (size/strength) to be OK at NT with more experience. Jolly is a 2 down UT or backup 3-4 DE. He's not worth a whole lot on the market even with a clean record.

I think the biggest reason Corey wasn't extended had less to do with character than it did magnitude. The team can write a 2-3M/yr pay as you go deal with without batting an eye (see Pops, a contract the team could dump whenever with few repercussions), but when it comes to things like 6M+ for 4+ years, that player has to be a little more safe to extend, both on and off the field, and Corey priced himself out of safety both places. If Corey could have been kept for what Cole got in Seattle (~3M/yr), I have no doubt that Corey would still be a Packer. Too bad sacks cost more than that, as the rest of Corey's game is no more than a 2-3M/yr DT.

[pbmax]

And I am going to drop the politcal stuff right here before it gets out of hand.

Then PM me the link please.

[pbmax]

Big difference though between Williams and Jolly is that Williams was a sack artist DT, Jolly is more of a run stuffer type.

Williams is worth WAY more. Heck Cole was at least capable (generously overstating) of playing both DT positions and really has it in him (size/strength) to be OK at NT with more experience. Jolly is a 2 down UT or backup 3-4 DE. He's not worth a whole lot on the market even with a clean record.

I must be missing it with Cole as you and several of the newspaper types have remarked that his game has improved on the anchor front. I still only see him go backwards or sideways at the discretion of the O Line everytime I see him double-teamed. He just seems to get washed out faster than everyone else at that DT position. (was it a 1 or 3 in Sanders scheme?)

Jolly has some pass rush in him, esp. compared to Cole but he has never put together a stretch like Williams had in the first half of '07. So I agree with the general contract parameters you foresee.

[Fritz]

PB, if I have read Waldo correctly in the past and in this link, I think he's not making any claims of magnitude about Cole. I don't think he thinks all that much of Cole as a player - I think he uses Cole here as a baseline comparison of what a minimum NFL player might be like and earn. I never felt like Waldo was a big Cole fan.

And if I'm reading this wrong, Waldo, tell me.

[Waldo]

Cole sucks. He is terrible.

However there are four types of DT's in the NFL:

1) Pass rushing NT's - Ultra rare and desirable. Few players ever sustained it for any period of time. Haynesworth is one, Raji was drafted to be one.

2) Pass rushing UT's - Guys that can quickly get into the backfield and disrupt plays, but are going to get pushed around when run doubled. Corey Williams was one, as is T. Harris.

3) Run stuffing NT's - 2 down players that eat 2 blockers and plug the middle, in a 3-4 or 4-3, the 3-4 NT being more desirable (often just playing in a 3-4 makes a guy more desirable). Most teams will look to replace these guys on passing downs though. Pickett is an example.

4) Run stuffing UT's - Guys that aren't much in the pass rushing department, and can't anchor against a double block, however when single blocked they can hold their ground and make plays. The least desirable type of DT's. Jolly is an example.

Jolly just doesn't have it in him to be a K. Williams or T. Harris type, he doesn't have the quickness to be a disruptive pass rusher from the UT spot. Nor does he have the size, power, or frame to be a good NT. He could in several years, but there is a lot of effort between where he is now, and where he needs to be.

Cole OTOH, aside from the suck, has it in him to be a run stuffing NT. He is big enough. He has the frame. He has the power. He's a little on the slow side, but he could at least be effective. I'm not sure why he is so terrible, but every now and then he made good plays. If I had to guess at one being an above average player someday, Cole would definitely be my choice over Jolly.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cole is terrible, horrible yet he is better than Jolly and attracted a high bid in the free agency market.

I think any player who stays on a roster for several seasons has got to be OK. There is a fine line between good and OK, you never know when or if a player will take that step. I doubt there is much difference between Williams, Cole and Jolly. They are OK players that have shown signs of being good.

[pbmax]

Cole is terrible, horrible yet he is better than Jolly and attracted a high bid in the free agency market.

I think any player who stays on a roster for several seasons has got to be OK. There is a fine line between good and OK, you never know when or if a player will take that step. I doubt there is much difference between Williams, Cole and Jolly.

Most players who sign early in FA get a high bid, but his offer was nowhere near what Corey Williams got. So even the Seahawks don't see him as the same.

I think Jolly has some pass rush, but he's been wildly inconsistent. When he filled in for Williams in 07, he looked like a house on fire, but he got banged up and has not looked the same since.

Cole looks the part, but he rarely makes a play and is usually being pushed the wrong way. I could see him succeeding when he does not need to take a double team, but since he is not quick, I can't see him starting as a UT (3 technique, right?).

[Waldo]

I think Jolly has some pass rush, but he's been wildly inconsistent. When he filled in for Williams in 07, he looked like a house on fire, but he got banged up and has not looked the same since.

Jolly outright won the starting spot in TC.

For one simple reason. He could stop the run OK and provide a figment of a pass rush.

Williams was a very good pass rusher, but terrible against the run. Not what you want in a starting DT. But a good situational DT.

Cole was pretty good against the run, but useless as a rusher. A good rotational base DT.

Harrell was a rookie that was not ready. Also a rotational base DT.

[pbmax]

I think Jolly has some pass rush, but he's been wildly inconsistent. When he filled in for Williams in 07, he looked like a house on fire, but he got banged up and has not looked the same since.

Jolly outright won the starting spot in TC.

For one simple reason. He could stop the run OK and provide a figment of a pass rush.

Williams was a very good pass rusher, but terrible against the run. Not what you want in a starting DT. But a good situational DT.

Cole was pretty good against the run, but useless as a rusher. A good rotational base DT.

Harrell was a rookie that was not ready. Also a rotational base DT.

Excellent memory. And then Jolly got hurt well after the start of the season, where I remember him hurt early. Looking at the NFL gamebook's for 2007 Williams started over Jolly for the first time in Week 3, then again in 8, 9. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17. Jolly started Week 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 10 and 11.

Week 7 was the bye and Week 17 might not count as they had some injured guys sit out.

[KYPack]

Jolly's charges were dropped today.

Houston DA's ofc states they may file again later.

[CaptainKickass]

Jolly's charges were dropped today.

Houston DA's ofc states they may file again later.

Source? Linkage? I wanna read the article. Oh wait. I forgot. There won't be an article as this is news about a Packer Football player. (this is an example of sarcasm for all you who may be a bit slow today)

[CaptainKickass]

Nevermind -

I found it:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090716/GPG0101/90716087/1058/PKR01

[swede]

I'm glad that Houston is taking a stand against cough syrup wherever it raises its ugly purple head.