Linebackers: Will Hawk Be A Two Down Player?

[bobblehead]

Reading this thread leads me to believe that the reporters covering the team are a lot more like me than they are like Waldo or Patler or KY or PB or many of the others who frequently comment here.

Can we get Waldo in as our TC reporter? An article or two from him would blow away anything we get from reporters (and be a hell of a lead for the home page).

Waldo is a good poster, but lets not get carried away. Early on he proclaimed that Reggie white played right defensive end. He has also said that chillar is a glorified safety even though the rams used him primarily on 1st and 2nd down. He also said the rams had no interest in resigning him even though they offered him more money than we did. Good poster in general, but hardly infalliable.

[bobblehead]

Waldo, we left off in the other thread with me pointing out that with the rams chillar was a 1st and 2nd down LB starter who came out vs. the pass. You also claimed the rams had no interest in resigning him, but they offered him more money than we did, but he chose to play with a winner (or percieved winner anyway).

I agree he isn't poppinga in destroying a running lane, but he is solid (much like hawk) in the run and the best LB we have in pass coverage and blitz. I stand by my guns, he is the best we have and more than likely will start this year at some point if not immediately.

I can't respond to it. I really don't care what he did with the Rams.

When he played for the Packers he was blown up by lead blockers, couldn't defend the weak corner, and let runners in cutback lanes cut underneath him.

The only way he starts if if Barnett isn't full go to start the season.

you made assertions as to the rams desire to keep him and what he could do in the nfl based on his part time playing status with the packers. Since he didn't even play running downs most of last year I'm not sure how you decided how bad he was. All I can say for certain is that when our defense was collapsing in the 4th quarter of games last year it was always Bishop, hawk or damn near anyone but chillar that was blowing a tackle, coverage or assignment.

Mind you I'm not bashing Hawk here as much as Bishop, we agree on him. I am merely saying that chillar was clearly the best LB on the team after barnett went down last season. You may be right, he might not start at the beginning of the season considering he might be best suited for Kampmans position not Hawks. I'm not trying to compare Hawk directly to Chillar either. The LB positions have different roles in this D, my only declaration is that chillar played linebacker better than anyone last season.

[Waldo]

Reading this thread leads me to believe that the reporters covering the team are a lot more like me than they are like Waldo or Patler or KY or PB or many of the others who frequently comment here.

Can we get Waldo in as our TC reporter? An article or two from him would blow away anything we get from reporters (and be a hell of a lead for the home page).

Waldo is a good poster, but lets not get carried away. Early on he proclaimed that Reggie white played right defensive end. He has also said that chillar is a glorified safety even though the rams used him primarily on 1st and 2nd down. He also said the rams had no interest in resigning him even though they offered him more money than we did. Good poster in general, but hardly infalliable.

My memory of Reggie is only so so, and one play that really sticks he was on the right. Teams generally play their premier DE on the right.

On the Packers Chillar is and has been a glorified SS. LIS I don't give a crap what the Rams did with him. They were 14-27 in games he started. Their coaches clearly are not the authority on how to win.

[mission]

Reading this thread leads me to believe that the reporters covering the team are a lot more like me than they are like Waldo or Patler or KY or PB or many of the others who frequently comment here.

Can we get Waldo in as our TC reporter? An article or two from him would blow away anything we get from reporters (and be a hell of a lead for the home page).

Waldo is a good poster, but lets not get carried away. Early on he proclaimed that Reggie white played right defensive end. He has also said that chillar is a glorified safety even though the rams used him primarily on 1st and 2nd down. He also said the rams had no interest in resigning him even though they offered him more money than we did. Good poster in general, but hardly infalliable.

LOL you gotta be kidding me ... what else you got?

Really, though... you're kidding right? At first I thought, yes... then I just realized maybe you have poster penis envy. Use the stalls instead.

[Waldo]

Mind you I'm not bashing Hawk here as much as Bishop, we agree on him. I am merely saying that chillar was clearly the best LB on the team after barnett went down last season.

No he wasn't.

At WLB: Hawk>>Chillar
At MLB: Hawk>>Bishop

The coaches thought that the
Pops-Hawk-Chillar alignment was better than Pops-Bishop-Hawk or Pops-Chillar-Hawk

AJ was clearly MUCH better as a WLB than MLB last year. The question is, why did they not try Chillar at MLB? After all, he's like Barnett lite, a bit of a weenie compared to Barnett, but much more similar to Barnett than Bishop is.

Capers saw the similarities between the players right away, hence the reason Chillar is Barnett's primary backup.

[Cleft Crusty]

Can we get Waldo in as our TC reporter? An article or two from him would blow away anything we get from reporters (and be a hell of a lead for the home page).

A picture of a dead squirrel would be a better lead for the home page right now as long as it linked to the forum instead of claiming the entire site has been down for maintenance for several months.

How about a Cleft Crusty Chat on the home page. Sure to draw in at least 1 or 2 new hits/year.

[Tarlam!]

Heck of an analysis, Waldo. I have no clue as to how accurate it is, but, after reading that, I'd buy a newspaper knowing you'd written an article in it.

I'm like Fritz - I cheer when we do good, I wanna throw something when we do bad. Having said that, I don't often hear Hawk blew this or that assignment too often. that's usually a good thing, no?

[bobblehead]

Reading this thread leads me to believe that the reporters covering the team are a lot more like me than they are like Waldo or Patler or KY or PB or many of the others who frequently comment here.

Can we get Waldo in as our TC reporter? An article or two from him would blow away anything we get from reporters (and be a hell of a lead for the home page).

Waldo is a good poster, but lets not get carried away. Early on he proclaimed that Reggie white played right defensive end. He has also said that chillar is a glorified safety even though the rams used him primarily on 1st and 2nd down. He also said the rams had no interest in resigning him even though they offered him more money than we did. Good poster in general, but hardly infalliable.

LOL you gotta be kidding me ... what else you got?

Really, though... you're kidding right? At first I thought, yes... then I just realized maybe you have poster penis envy. Use the stalls instead.

Now I can't disagree with someone and point out there ridiculous posts as evidence without it being poster envy??

Waldo made a big deal in a thread awhile back saying ALL premiere pass rushers played on the right....until some of us pointed out Reggie, LT and other greats who played on the left.

Look, i'm not bashing waldo or discrediting what he does know, but he does make wild assertions that turn out to be dead opposite wrong at times. We all make mistakes, me, you, waldo, every poster on the board. Some have decided that he is the be all end all voice of football reason on the site and i'm merely pointing out he has the same flaws we all do, without being personal about it and declaring poster envy or any of that kind of childish crap.

We are having a discussion about LB's. I disagree with certain assertions he is making and backing it up with evidence.

He is declaring the 6-10 coaching staff to be the voice of reason then poining out the poor rams record as the reason you can't look at what THEY did with chillar....hypocrisy??

Look, I've defended hawk at times, I've defended Poppinga MANY times, but what I saw last year with my own lying eyes is Chillar manning the LB spot better than anyone else.

Waldo is the one who jumped on me in the other thread with "where do you get this stuff from, chillar is a glorified SS" to which i responded that he was considered a base run stopping LB for his 2 seasons starting with the rams. Waldo countered with the rams didn't even want him, why is that if he is so great. I said he took less money to play with the packers and provided a link.

Waldo said he doesn't care what the rams did with him (he did until he was wrong) since they have a lousy record, its what the ingenious packer staff he was paying attention to (never mind the 6-10 record).

Now you chime in with my poster envy when all i'm doing is stating a position and backing it up with facts. Crazy of me I know. Chillar doesn't have "it" therefore the debate is over.

[bobblehead]

Heck of an analysis, Waldo. I have no clue as to how accurate it is, but, after reading that, I'd buy a newspaper knowing you'd written an article in it.

I'm like Fritz - I cheer when we do good, I wanna throw something when we do bad. Having said that, I don't often hear Hawk blew this or that assignment too often. that's usually a good thing, no?

Which is where waldo seems to be getting all his street cred.

THE EMPOROR ISN'T WEARING CLOTHES!!

There I said it, have at me.

[Tarlam!]

I didn't think Bobble had poster envy. I see him as legitimately challenging the position and, to me, this has brought out an even better discussion.

[Patler]

My memory of Reggie is only so so, and one play that really sticks he was on the right. Teams generally play their premier DE on the right.

They often play their premier pass rushing DE on the right, but if they are fortunate enough to have a truly premier DE, he often plays on the left.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've been a critic of the Packers LB'ers for years... historically, the have never really scouted or drafted the position well - but, of course, they haven't scouted or drafted well on the defensive side of the ball in general. We won the SB in '96 b/c Wolf went out and bought himself an entire DL.

As far as I can recall, you've been a critic of almost everything for years.

(I really missed arguing with you Wisty!)

And as far as this situation goes,... .... you're... umm... completely right (DAMMIT)

The linebacking has been the weakest link as long as I can remember, settling for mediocrity. Signing or re-signing aging players. Hardy Nickerson, anyone?

The improvement under Thompson as opposed to Sherman is that Thompson has players with upsides, Sherman never got those players. Sherman settled with players who plateaued, who had been in the league for 5-7 or more years and weren't going to get any better. At least with Thompson, the kids are young and theoretically can improve with practice and coaching.

[Fritz]

Except for Nick Barnett. That was Shermy's pick and may have been his best pick bar Kampman.

[DonHutson]

At the risk of steering this thread away from who has the bigger penis, I'd just like to point out that it's a relief that our problem seems to be finding enough downs for all our LB's when all off-season people wondered if we had enough LB's to play all the downs.

[bobblehead]

At the risk of steering this thread away from who has the bigger penis, I'd just like to point out that it's a relief that our problem seems to be finding enough downs for all our LB's when all off-season people wondered if we had enough LB's to play all the downs.

Unfortunately MY point was that are LB's are pretty overrated and not exceptional in the least. I wish it were otherwise.