Half a Decade of Mediocrity: The Mike Sherman Years

[Pugger]

We should also blast Harlan (and Wolf) for giving such a neophyte both the HC and GM jobs. When Harlan first hired Wolf he said that no man can do both jobs but Harlan broke his own 'rule' later on with the hiring fiasco of Sherman as GM. Thankfully he corrected that problem by hiring TT. But TT's biggest goof in my eyes was extending Sherman's contract! What a waste of Favre's best years with Sherman running the show.

[pbmax]

Mr. Rand has a good point that each year you could see what position Sherman had targeted for an upgrade in quality. He often made this public like he did the year he sought to upgrade receivers.

But he upgraded it like a coach would. Trading assets that were no use to him now, like a lower round pick or future cap money. His eyes were on starters and key backups. Its one reason his special teams were atrocious.

But after a few years of this, there were not enough picks not enough money to plug all the holes.

[mraynrand]

We should also blast Harlan (and Wolf) for giving such a neophyte both the HC and GM jobs. When Harlan first hired Wolf he said that no man can do both jobs but Harlan broke his own 'rule' later on with the hiring fiasco of Sherman as GM. Thankfully he corrected that problem by hiring TT. But TT's biggest goof in my eyes was extending Sherman's contract! What a waste of Favre's best years with Sherman running the show.

Except that the first thing Shermy did was to hire Mark Hatley, who had been GM for the Bears. If Shermy lacked experience as GM, which I think he did, he at least made a reasonable move to address his own inexperience.

[mraynrand]

But he upgraded it like a coach would

I think that's exactly right. I would add that I always had this feeling that he was really thinking Favre was about done, and he wanted to get that championship in before Favre really faded out. It shoulda happened in 2002. Damn injuries.

[sharpe1027]

Sherman made big mistakes in two drafts by:

- trading up for, and investing two draft picks in Kenny Peterson
- trading up for, and investing two draft picks in James Lee
- trading up for, and investing two draft picks in Hunter Hillenmeyer, then waiving him
- trading up for, and investing two draft picks in Donnell Washington
- trading up for, and investing two draft picks in B.J Sander


When you invest two draft picks in each player, you can't afford to be wrong too often. Sherman screwed up all five of these situations with four bad picks and one bad roster decision. He wasted 10 draft picks on these and decimated the Packers roster depth.

The one that really bugs me is when he didn not offer KGB the maximum tender offer even though he was willing to pay him more than that anyway. Instead of other teams having to risk the loss of a first round pick (and a third?) and the Packers having the right of first refusal, the Packers got into a bidding war and paide way more than the tender. No excuse for that.

[retailguy]

We should also blast Harlan (and Wolf) for giving such a neophyte both the HC and GM jobs. When Harlan first hired Wolf he said that no man can do both jobs but Harlan broke his own 'rule' later on with the hiring fiasco of Sherman as GM. Thankfully he corrected that problem by hiring TT. But TT's biggest goof in my eyes was extending Sherman's contract! What a waste of Favre's best years with Sherman running the show.

Except that the first thing Shermy did was to hire Mark Hatley, who had been GM for the Bears. If Shermy lacked experience as GM, which I think he did, he at least made a reasonable move to address his own inexperience.

Yep, this was probably the brightest move Sherman made as GM. Had Hatley not passed away, and Joe Johnson not been washed up, things most certainly would have been different.

But, both those things happened, Sherman started to panic, walled himself off, made increasingly desperate moves, and we are where we are.

Watching the desperate trades, and decisions like keeping Hunt over Holliday, was really like watching the water go down the drain.

I'll always respect the guy, but, in the end, he destroyed himself. He should have tried to hire another Mark Hatley, and then "listened" to him.

[mraynrand]

Sherman traded for Green which hid a few warts over the years....but when he drafted Clubber "mini" Lange in the first round and traded up for a punter he shot himself in the balls.

Wolf was the GM at the time of the Green trade. Sure, Sherman was the OC at Seattle in '99, and may have suggested or been enthusiastic about Green as the new coach in 2000, but he was not the GM that year so Wolf gets the credit.

[mraynrand]

We should also blast Harlan (and Wolf) for giving such a neophyte both the HC and GM jobs. When Harlan first hired Wolf he said that no man can do both jobs but Harlan broke his own 'rule' later on with the hiring fiasco of Sherman as GM. Thankfully he corrected that problem by hiring TT. But TT's biggest goof in my eyes was extending Sherman's contract! What a waste of Favre's best years with Sherman running the show.

Except that the first thing Shermy did was to hire Mark Hatley, who had been GM for the Bears. If Shermy lacked experience as GM, which I think he did, he at least made a reasonable move to address his own inexperience.

Yep, this was probably the brightest move Sherman made as GM. Had Hatley not passed away, and Joe Johnson not been washed up, things most certainly would have been different.

I'm not sure. Hatley was there for the moves following the 2003 season. losing McKenzie, drafting Carroll and Thomas, allowing Slowit to run that absurd D with a third rate CB like Hawthorne in there. The key to Sherman's demise to me was that the injuries killed him in 2002, and then he killed himself in 2003, particularly in the playoffs. Sometimes a single playoff loss can doom a coach and that loss in Philly, with all the things that went wrong in the second half, pretty much finished Sherman. The rest was just ridiculous (e.g. boxing gloves) and very painful (2005) denouement.

[Freak Out]

Sherman traded for Green which hid a few warts over the years....but when he drafted Clubber "mini" Lange in the first round and traded up for a punter he shot himself in the balls.

Wolf was the GM at the time of the Green trade. Sure, Sherman was the OC at Seattle in '99, and may have suggested or been enthusiastic about Green as the new coach in 2000, but he was not the GM that year so Wolf gets the credit.

My bad....that just makes Sherman the bigger dart board I guess.

[bobblehead]

I'll tell you my big beef with shermy( and rhodes) and why I liked Holmgren and MM so much.

Holmgren was absolutely intolerant of turnovers. He was all over favre for bad throws and would bench a RB for fumbles in a heartbeat. He traded Ahman BECAUSE he was a fumbler...Sherman gladly grabbed him. Sherman also decided BF was god and allowed to throw 20 picks a season.

A few of those teams with that offensive line should have gone deep into the playoffs and maybe even superbowl. Injuries may have ruined a season, but Greens fumbles and BF's picks (the truly boneheaded ones) cost us a lot more than injuries ever did.

When Rodgers threw one right into Uhrlachers stomach last season I couldn't help mumbling "yep, he did learn a lot from favre".

[mraynrand]

Greens fumbles and BF's picks (the truly boneheaded ones) cost us a lot more than injuries ever did.

Disagree. 2002: by halftime of the Wildcard game, 9 starters were gone with injury. No team can withstand that.

2003: Shermy's (and Donatell's) feet of clay cost us the NFC championship game.

[pbmax]

But he upgraded it like a coach would

I think that's exactly right. I would add that I always had this feeling that he was really thinking Favre was about done, and he wanted to get that championship in before Favre really faded out. It shoulda happened in 2002. Damn injuries.

And Andrew Brandt, Capologist, Esq. could have fed into that speculation. Even today he half seriously tells of the shared hope between he and Bus Cook that Favre would reach year 3 of the extension. He is now on year 8

Another poster mentioned Mark Hatley's hire as evidence that Sherman knew he needed GM assistance. I would also add that never finding a replacement for Hatley hurt, and was one of the items cited by Harlan when he stripped Sherman of the job.

I have no problem with his hire as coach. He succeeded in most ways, esp. regular season. He had a problem with clock management and playoff games, which affects half the coaches in the league. The one area he struggled with that was odd was the season always starting in the doldrums or the long periods of indifferent play. And then Sherman would have to give the fiery+emotional speech to rally the team. Over time, that was going to stop working.

[mraynrand]

And then Sherman would have to give the fiery+emotional speech to rally the team. Over time, that was going to stop working.

Like in Baltimore in 2005. OUCH!

[pbmax]

KGB, Hunt versus Holliday and Diggs were examples of the kind of starters and depth you lose with a coaches approach to personnel. He had boxed himself in with little cap room and tried to lowball KGB and Diggs tenders to gain some room. That cost him dearly.

He had little depth for replacements, so he had to pay a fortune to keep them. Hunt I understand as they basically tried to keep a DT over a DE, except the DT was a slug.

[KYPack]

This is a good and proper post mortem of the MS era. Basically, he was a top coach and a rookie GM who never caught on to the GM gig.

It's always painful to watch a capable person be given a job they can't handle. Sherm behaved like most, making panic moves while he tried desperately to work his way thru things. That doesn't make him a bad guy, but he was a poor GM.

I really fault Harlan in all this. He should have insisted the VP of personnel slot be filled immediatley after hatley's demise, by a top player guy with some juice at his position.

In the end of MS's regime as GM, some things really stood out. Trading up to draft BJ Sanders, then keeping him on the roster with another punter was an inexcusable move. The other player move that was very poor was trading TWO picks to get R Kal Truluck. Truluck was a journeyman DE, a Div III and CFL, AFL player. KC was gonna cut him in a couple days, but Shermy had to have him and burned a 5 & 6 to obtain his contract.

Sherm was a clinic on how to back a team into cap jail, while failing to build team depth to compensate for vet loss.

Harlan should have made the move on MS much earlier than he did.
Few can be a coach & GM and Mike was another guy who couldn't do both jobs.