Half a Decade of Mediocrity: The Mike Sherman Years

[MOBB DEEP]

Re: Half a Decade of Mediocrity: The Mike Sherman Years

Someone mentioned Will Whitticker in another thread and it made me review the rosters for those years.

Putrid personnel decisions like that really wasted the first half of the decade and that part of Favre's tenure in GB. Looking back, the management stuck to average players with expended upside. (I have to give Wist credit for his comments on the team at that time.) Who knows what could have happened with talent upgraded from the underwhelming likes of:
Bill Schroeder
Marques Anderson
Mark Roman
Ahmad Carroll
Matt Bowen
Antonio Chatman
Tyrone Williams
Na’il Diggs
Antuan Edwards
Robert Ferguson
Tony Fisher
Cleditus Hunt
Joe Johnson
Bhawaoh Jue
Nick Luchey
Torrance Marshall
Hannibal Navies
Hardy Nickerson
Kenny Peterson
Ben Steele
Joey Thomas

lmbo off at the players in bold!

[MichiganPackerFan]

Re: Half a Decade of Mediocrity: The Mike Sherman Years

lmbo off at the players in bold!

We had some good times ripping on those personel choices back then!

[Zool]

I've said this for many years now.

PSL rode the coat tails of a HOF QB and a superstud RB with a stellar O-line. Hell Ray Rhodes might have had a good record with those 01-04 teams.

[Merlin]

While true that Mike Sherman had an ego as big as the state of Texas, so does our current GM. Neither of them let anyone else tell them how to run the team and both of them are guilty of drafting poorly. Unlike Sherman who overestimated the talent he had and was always looking for that one player to make a difference (Reggie White anyone?), Thompson overestimates the talent he has and thinks who we have is good enough to win every year. Admirable as it may be that Thompson supports every player on the roster, even the worst GM can see that our offensive line has truly been offensive during the Thompson era. Add to that the lack of healthy, quality tight ends, healthy, quality defensive linemen, and mediocrity in the running game at best, it isn't a stretch to see that Thompson's approach hasn't won us a lot of games or transpired into his "I like who we have here" and "We expect to win" mantra. He has made some good personnel decisions, and some very poor ones. I agree in the hiring of McCarthy, he is more Holgrenesqe, but the choices for the rest of the coaching staff have been poor at best, at least we got a big upgrade on defense this year. The whole idea of the ZBS has been a disaster. Sherman won a lot of games for Green Bay, that can't be denied. Outside of his injuries, the one thing that sticks out as his downfall - his inability to adjust to in game scenarios. His offense hardly changed during his entire career. Remember the U71 I think it was? Year after year he ran that play and in the end it stopped working, just like a lot of his offense did. He never changed anything and that helped with his own demise.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think Mike Sherman was an above average coach that was way over his head as a GM. He got fired as a coach because he couldn't manage the roster. The beef with McKenzie prooves that. His hat as a GM caused players to resent him as a coach.

I thought giving the GM spot to Sherman was a move made by Harlan and Wolf to spite Mike Holmgren.

[sharpe1027]

Paragraphs would help.

While true that Mike Sherman had an ego as big as the state of Texas, so does our current GM. Neither of them let anyone else tell them how to run the team and both of them are guilty of drafting poorly.

Scott Campbell mentioned that there were stories about staff not being able to disagree with Sherman. If true (any articles written about that?), then fine. I've never heard about TT not using/listening to his staff, unless you consider B. Favre an assistant GM... What is your basis for these allegations?

Unlike Sherman who overestimated the talent he had and was always looking for that one player to make a difference (Reggie White anyone?), Thompson overestimates the talent he has and thinks who we have is good enough to win every year.

I assume you are talking about how TT always tells the media he expects the team to win? Name a GM that doesn't do the same. What exactly are you getting at?

Admirable as it may be that Thompson supports every player on the roster, even the worst GM can see that our offensive line has truly been offensive during the Thompson era.

Well, it would be pretty stupid not to publicly support your own players. What exactly do you expect? He has cut ties with players that didn't work out.

Add to that the lack of healthy, quality tight ends, healthy, quality defensive linemen, and mediocrity in the running game at best, it isn't a stretch to see that Thompson's approach hasn't won us a lot of games or transpired into his "I like who we have here" and "We expect to win" mantra.

Again, you seem focused on form over substance. Do you really expect him to say "I don't like player XYZ" and "I think we'll lose most of our games this year"?

He has made some good personnel decisions, and some very poor ones.

Agreed, but at least the poor ones have not handicapped the team for years to come.

I agree in the hiring of McCarthy, he is more Holgrenesqe, but the choices for the rest of the coaching staff have been poor at best, at least we got a big upgrade on defense this year. The whole idea of the ZBS has been a disaster.

This is intersting as you seem to be praising MM, while at the same time you are ripping on things that were largely MM's fault.

Sherman won a lot of games for Green Bay, that can't be denied. Outside of his injuries, the one thing that sticks out as his downfall - his inability to adjust to in game scenarios. His offense hardly changed during his entire career. Remember the U71 I think it was? Year after year he ran that play and in the end it stopped working, just like a lot of his offense did. He never changed anything and that helped with his own demise.

Agreed.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'll tell you my big beef with shermy( and rhodes) and why I liked Holmgren and MM so much.

Holmgren was absolutely intolerant of turnovers. He was all over favre for bad throws and would bench a RB for fumbles in a heartbeat. He traded Ahman BECAUSE he was a fumbler...Sherman gladly grabbed him. Sherman also decided BF was god and allowed to throw 20 picks a season.

A few of those teams with that offensive line should have gone deep into the playoffs and maybe even superbowl. Injuries may have ruined a season, but Greens fumbles and BF's picks (the truly boneheaded ones) cost us a lot more than injuries ever did.

When Rodgers threw one right into Uhrlachers stomach last season I couldn't help mumbling "yep, he did learn a lot from favre".

I think we got far more positive contributions from Green than negative ones. Except for the yr he lost due to injury, he never rushed for less than 1000 yds and was a very good receiving back as well. Sure he fumbled a bunch, but I'd gladly trade the production he gave to us in spite of those.

[Fritz]

Hey, is there an entrepreneur in Green Bay who sells Mike Sherman punching bags?

I want one!

Seriously, I agree that it was a mistake for Wolf to hire a first-time head coach and then give him the GM position immediately after.

It was too much for one guy. Just too much.

I agree to with PB that Sherman-the-GM thought more like Sherman-the-coach. But is that anything like letting your little head do the thinking for your big head??

[mraynrand]

I think we got far more positive contributions from Green than negative ones. Except for the yr he lost due to injury, he never rushed for less than 1000 yds and was a very good receiving back as well. Sure he fumbled a bunch, but I'd gladly trade the production he gave to us in spite of those.

No kidding. But The fumbles were way oversold. Green was in the top three running backs 2000-2004 (average), with great numbers in yards rushing, receptions (73, 62, 57, 50, 40) and combined yards from scrimmage 1734(7th), 1633, 1981(3rd), 2250(3rd), 1438. His Fumbles? (6,5,4,7,7 = 29). Not all that different from other guys with similar carries/duties Tomlinson (8,3,2,6,3= 22 - 2001-2005), Ricky Williams (6,6,8,7,7=34, 1999-2003), and Priest Holmes (2,4,1,1,4= 12). I think Holmes was the best at ball security over that stretch.

[mraynrand]

While true that Mike Sherman had an ego as big as the state of Texas, so does our current GM. Neither of them let anyone else tell them how to run the team and both of them are guilty of drafting poorly.

I guess using that logic (what is the logic there? please explain), both are guilty of drafting well, too. Barnett, Kampman, Rodgers, Jennings. Thompson accumulated draft picks and, unlike Sherman, had a huge bonanza year in 2006, in which he had an extra #2 from Walker and high draft picks in each round because of scuttling/rediricting (depending on your view/bias) the team in 2005. Both drafted good picks, and both had stinkers. Thompson, as been noted elsewhere, had an outstanding day 2 in 2007, and has built the current team through the draft. The next two years will really tell the story of his draft picks

[bobblehead]

Greens fumbles and BF's picks (the truly boneheaded ones) cost us a lot more than injuries ever did.

Disagree. 2002: by halftime of the Wildcard game, 9 starters were gone with injury. No team can withstand that.

2003: Shermy's (and Donatell's) feet of clay cost us the NFC championship game.

I didn't say they didn't cost us, but the turnovers cost us every year. I remember a game against the chefs where we were dominating every facet of the game. Up by 10 if I recall and running it down their throats. BF tosses a pick 6 at the KC 20ish yardline. Then after shermy abandoned the run and we end up in OT, Green is again running it down their throats as I scream "thats what I'm talking about...run the.....FUCK, FUCK" as Ahman put the ball on the turf. We lost and didn't really recover.

How about the viking playoff game with a fumble by green and 4 picks by BF if i recall. Atlanta...don't get me started. The rams...truly an epic day where Bill schroeder ran 6 wrong routes.

[mraynrand]

Greens fumbles and BF's picks (the truly boneheaded ones) cost us a lot more than injuries ever did.

Disagree. 2002: by halftime of the Wildcard game, 9 starters were gone with injury. No team can withstand that.

2003: Shermy's (and Donatell's) feet of clay cost us the NFC championship game.

I didn't say they didn't cost us, but the turnovers cost us every year. I remember a game against the chefs where we were dominating every facet of the game. Up by 10 if I recall and running it down their throats. BF tosses a pick 6 at the KC 20ish yardline. Then after shermy abandoned the run and we end up in OT, Green is again running it down their throats as I scream "thats what I'm talking about...run the.....FUCK, FUCK" as Ahman put the ball on the turf. We lost and didn't really recover.

How about the viking playoff game with a fumble by green and 4 picks by BF if i recall. Atlanta...don't get me started. The rams...truly an epic day where Bill schroeder ran 6 wrong routes.

I don't see where your're going with this. Under Sherman, the best chance the Pack had at getting to the Superbowl were 2002 and 2003. 2002 was derailed by injuries (even had they never turned the ball over against Atlanta, they still wouldn't have won - even if they had won that game, they would have been slaughtered by Philly, That was a destroyed team. Why can't you figure that out??)

2003? Turnovers didn't decide that Philly game. Feet of clay. Donatell wimped out on fourth and 26 and didn't bring pressure, and Shermy wimped out on a fourth and one just before that. Sherman called the entire second half like he was protecting a three TD lead. Favre's OT INT, painful as it was, should never have happened.

Turnovers have a great effect on any game, but the best chances to win it all in the Sherman era were not decided by turnovers.

[MOBB DEEP]

Re: Half a Decade of Mediocrity: The Mike Sherman Years

lmbo off at the players in bold!

We had some good times ripping on those personel choices back then!

Omg yes!

Remember Torrance Marshall's "girlfriend?" ROFLMAO....classic scenario, classic times...

[MichiganPackerFan]

The next two years will really tell the story of his draft picks

I totally agree. Thompson may have to draft more similart to this year rather than the constant trade downs. If there are a lot more trade downs, it really means his first couple of drafts were useless.

[Deputy Nutz]

I have to admit, Shermy did put together a stellar offensive line, a horrible defensive line, a less than explosive receiver corps outside of the one year, a very solid running game especially if Green could play more than 2 plays in a row. The defensive line was his down fall along with his feeble efforts at replacing aging pieces in the secondary, finding a safety to go next to Sharper was a laughable experience as well. Linebacker? not real good either.