NFC North QB Race 2009

[Gunakor]

The difference is that those teams and those players are supposed to keep winning. It'll look like a bigger accomplishment if Rodgers puts up similar stats and a similar record as Payton and Drew. I mean, Rodgers is already beloved by the media, and that's half the battle right there.

You think Rodgers is beloved by the media? Rodgers is like a red hair step child compared to Peyton and Drew.

Never compared Rodgers to Payton and Drew. Those two have established themselves far more than Rodgers has. I just said that he's beloved by the media, and you can't watch an episode of Fox NFL Sunday or NFL Countdown or SportsCenter without hearing those guys singing his praise. I call that being beloved by the media, what would you call it?

Do you think that even if Rodgers puts up identical stats and the Packers finish with an identical record that there's no way Rodgers would get the same consideration as Payton and Drew? If so, why? And how does he get that respect if winning and numbers aren't enough? What would he have to do in your opinion?

[Gunakor]

Gun,

You can "write" a story for each one. Peyton's story would be along the lines of vet leads young and new team. Without his former coach. Leading a rookie coach to success. Without his top WR harrison. Gonzalez hurt.

Brees. The Vick angle. The leaving San Diego. Getting the Saints back into the playoffs after years of disappointments. The no name supporting cast (aside from Bush..which if you are football fan only makes Brees look better), the incredible passing #s..on track for 45 plus tds. Symbol of the city's resurgence, etc.

As for "beloved" in what respect and by whom? Are you suggesting he is more beloved than Peyton? Surely you jest. Believe me, living in AZ, nobody nationally is more enamored of arod than brees and peyton.

I know each would have a story, that's why they have a vote. Rodgers story would be replacing a legend, the weight put on his shoulders right from the beginning if not by the team than by it's fans. Substandard running game and awful pass protection. Youngest team in the NFL. There's a story there too.

Beloved: Even Terry Bradshaw said something to the effect of "Is there anybody playing better right now?" This the same Terry Bradshaw that last year placed the blame for the Packers record last season solely on the switch from Favre at QB to Rodgers (I know he wasn't blasting Rodgers directly, but the implication was there). You can turn on NFL Countdown or NFL Total Access and they're feeling Rodgers too. Loads of respect from every media outlet out there. Now, Manning and Brees get that same respect, and I'm not trying to compare Rodgers to them in this regard. But if all things are equal at the end of the season, both wins and numbers, then I think Rodgers has as good a shot as either of them. Because he has a story too, and it's a good one.

[Brandon494]

Gun,

You can "write" a story for each one. Peyton's story would be along the lines of vet leads young and new team. Without his former coach. Leading a rookie coach to success. Without his top WR harrison. Gonzalez hurt.

Brees. The Vick angle. The leaving San Diego. Getting the Saints back into the playoffs after years of disappointments. The no name supporting cast (aside from Bush..which if you are football fan only makes Brees look better), the incredible passing #s..on track for 45 plus tds. Symbol of the city's resurgence, etc.

I wouldnt really say he has a no name supporting cast with Marques Colston, Jeremy Shockey, Pierre Thomas, Lance Moore, Reggie Bush, and a very underrated O-line.

[Brandon494]

Never compared Rodgers to Payton and Drew. Those two have established themselves far more than Rodgers has. I just said that he's beloved by the media, and you can't watch an episode of Fox NFL Sunday or NFL Countdown or SportsCenter without hearing those guys singing his praise. I call that being beloved by the media, what would you call it?

Do you think that even if Rodgers puts up identical stats and the Packers finish with an identical record that there's no way Rodgers would get the same consideration as Payton and Drew? If so, why? And how does he get that respect if winning and numbers aren't enough? What would he have to do in your opinion?

I know you never compared him to those guys, Im just saying even though the media does talk about Rodgers they talk about Brees and Manning 10 times more because they are both undefeated. IF Rodgers finishs the season with the best record in his conference which it looks like the Colts and Saints will do and he puts up similiar numbers than yes I believe he should be considered. I'm not arguing AR is not a good QB, I'm been on of his biggest fans and supported starting him over Favre last season, just saying he is not quite in the MVP discussion yet.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Gun,

You can "write" a story for each one. Peyton's story would be along the lines of vet leads young and new team. Without his former coach. Leading a rookie coach to success. Without his top WR harrison. Gonzalez hurt.

Brees. The Vick angle. The leaving San Diego. Getting the Saints back into the playoffs after years of disappointments. The no name supporting cast (aside from Bush..which if you are football fan only makes Brees look better), the incredible passing #s..on track for 45 plus tds. Symbol of the city's resurgence, etc.

I wouldnt really say he has a no name supporting cast with Marques Colston, Jeremy Shockey, Pierre Thomas, Lance Moore, Reggie Bush, and a very underrated O-line.

That is why it is a "story."

PT and Moore arent' "names" like Q and Bolden or even jennings and driver. Shockey...it is almost like he has been forgotten...and, his production has never matched his hype or his talent. Seriously, his name is rarely talked about...it is almost like he dropped off the planet...or just he stopped playing in a major media market.

Colston ain't a "name" either. You are confusing production with being a name. A name is somebody everybody knows...like LT with SD, even though true fans know sproles has more of an impact.

Names are pro bowlers or close to it.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Gun,

You can "write" a story for each one. Peyton's story would be along the lines of vet leads young and new team. Without his former coach. Leading a rookie coach to success. Without his top WR harrison. Gonzalez hurt.

Brees. The Vick angle. The leaving San Diego. Getting the Saints back into the playoffs after years of disappointments. The no name supporting cast (aside from Bush..which if you are football fan only makes Brees look better), the incredible passing #s..on track for 45 plus tds. Symbol of the city's resurgence, etc.

As for "beloved" in what respect and by whom? Are you suggesting he is more beloved than Peyton? Surely you jest. Believe me, living in AZ, nobody nationally is more enamored of arod than brees and peyton.

I know each would have a story, that's why they have a vote. Rodgers story would be replacing a legend, the weight put on his shoulders right from the beginning if not by the team than by it's fans. Substandard running game and awful pass protection. Youngest team in the NFL. There's a story there too.

Beloved: Even Terry Bradshaw said something to the effect of "Is there anybody playing better right now?" This the same Terry Bradshaw that last year placed the blame for the Packers record last season solely on the switch from Favre at QB to Rodgers (I know he wasn't blasting Rodgers directly, but the implication was there). You can turn on NFL Countdown or NFL Total Access and they're feeling Rodgers too. Loads of respect from every media outlet out there. Now, Manning and Brees get that same respect, and I'm not trying to compare Rodgers to them in this regard. But if all things are equal at the end of the season, both wins and numbers, then I think Rodgers has as good a shot as either of them. Because he has a story too, and it's a good one.

Sorry. But you are just flat out wrong. And, there is really no point is arguing this as you and i both know the chance of the pack and Arod having the same wins as either brees, peyton, palmer/benson, or an X factor is between small and none....small just left the building.

[Gunakor]

Gun,

You can "write" a story for each one. Peyton's story would be along the lines of vet leads young and new team. Without his former coach. Leading a rookie coach to success. Without his top WR harrison. Gonzalez hurt.

Brees. The Vick angle. The leaving San Diego. Getting the Saints back into the playoffs after years of disappointments. The no name supporting cast (aside from Bush..which if you are football fan only makes Brees look better), the incredible passing #s..on track for 45 plus tds. Symbol of the city's resurgence, etc.

As for "beloved" in what respect and by whom? Are you suggesting he is more beloved than Peyton? Surely you jest. Believe me, living in AZ, nobody nationally is more enamored of arod than brees and peyton.

I know each would have a story, that's why they have a vote. Rodgers story would be replacing a legend, the weight put on his shoulders right from the beginning if not by the team than by it's fans. Substandard running game and awful pass protection. Youngest team in the NFL. There's a story there too.

Beloved: Even Terry Bradshaw said something to the effect of "Is there anybody playing better right now?" This the same Terry Bradshaw that last year placed the blame for the Packers record last season solely on the switch from Favre at QB to Rodgers (I know he wasn't blasting Rodgers directly, but the implication was there). You can turn on NFL Countdown or NFL Total Access and they're feeling Rodgers too. Loads of respect from every media outlet out there. Now, Manning and Brees get that same respect, and I'm not trying to compare Rodgers to them in this regard. But if all things are equal at the end of the season, both wins and numbers, then I think Rodgers has as good a shot as either of them. Because he has a story too, and it's a good one.

Sorry. But you are just flat out wrong. And, there is really no point is arguing this as you and i both know the chance of the pack and Arod having the same wins as either brees, peyton, palmer/benson, or an X factor is between small and none....small just left the building.

You're arguing the chances of it happening now. That wasn't the argument anyway. The argument was IF wins and stats are equal, IF, then... Now your argument is that it's just not possible for that to happen, so I am flat out wrong. Huh. That wasn't the argument, but okay. You're probably right. Now, pretend you're wrong and join the debate we're actually having. IF the wins and numbers are equal, then why is Rodgers excluded from the conversation?

[Gunakor]

Never compared Rodgers to Payton and Drew. Those two have established themselves far more than Rodgers has. I just said that he's beloved by the media, and you can't watch an episode of Fox NFL Sunday or NFL Countdown or SportsCenter without hearing those guys singing his praise. I call that being beloved by the media, what would you call it?

Do you think that even if Rodgers puts up identical stats and the Packers finish with an identical record that there's no way Rodgers would get the same consideration as Payton and Drew? If so, why? And how does he get that respect if winning and numbers aren't enough? What would he have to do in your opinion?

I know you never compared him to those guys, Im just saying even though the media does talk about Rodgers they talk about Brees and Manning 10 times more because they are both undefeated. IF Rodgers finishs the season with the best record in his conference which it looks like the Colts and Saints will do and he puts up similiar numbers than yes I believe he should be considered. I'm not arguing AR is not a good QB, I'm been on of his biggest fans and supported starting him over Favre last season, just saying he is not quite in the MVP discussion yet.

He's halfway there. He's putting up MVP numbers. Hell, his numbers were identical that of the MVP's last year. And he's proving this year that his performance last year was no fluke. The only stat that wasn't nearly identical to Mannings was the tally in the win column. As soon as the team starts posting MVP type numbers in the win column he's going to be a significant part of that discussion.

[Brandon494]

Never compared Rodgers to Payton and Drew. Those two have established themselves far more than Rodgers has. I just said that he's beloved by the media, and you can't watch an episode of Fox NFL Sunday or NFL Countdown or SportsCenter without hearing those guys singing his praise. I call that being beloved by the media, what would you call it?

Do you think that even if Rodgers puts up identical stats and the Packers finish with an identical record that there's no way Rodgers would get the same consideration as Payton and Drew? If so, why? And how does he get that respect if winning and numbers aren't enough? What would he have to do in your opinion?

I know you never compared him to those guys, Im just saying even though the media does talk about Rodgers they talk about Brees and Manning 10 times more because they are both undefeated. IF Rodgers finishs the season with the best record in his conference which it looks like the Colts and Saints will do and he puts up similiar numbers than yes I believe he should be considered. I'm not arguing AR is not a good QB, I'm been on of his biggest fans and supported starting him over Favre last season, just saying he is not quite in the MVP discussion yet.

He's halfway there. He's putting up MVP numbers. Hell, his numbers were identical that of the MVP's last year. And he's proving this year that his performance last year was no fluke. The only stat that wasn't nearly identical to Mannings was the tally in the win column. As soon as the team starts posting MVP type numbers in the win column he's going to be a significant part of that discussion.

Brees just brought his team back from down 21 points on the road, when AR starts to have those type of games then he'll be in the MVP discussion.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Stats don't make an MVP. Wins contribute greatly. And yes, performances, like Brees' on sunday certainly do, but don't forget, his defense came up big there too.

There's reliable and there's mvp's. I'd like to see AR be approaching the former and evolving to the latter, but that's just as premature as if my name was Justin. (get it? HA!!!)

[channtheman]

Never compared Rodgers to Payton and Drew. Those two have established themselves far more than Rodgers has. I just said that he's beloved by the media, and you can't watch an episode of Fox NFL Sunday or NFL Countdown or SportsCenter without hearing those guys singing his praise. I call that being beloved by the media, what would you call it?

Do you think that even if Rodgers puts up identical stats and the Packers finish with an identical record that there's no way Rodgers would get the same consideration as Payton and Drew? If so, why? And how does he get that respect if winning and numbers aren't enough? What would he have to do in your opinion?

I know you never compared him to those guys, Im just saying even though the media does talk about Rodgers they talk about Brees and Manning 10 times more because they are both undefeated. IF Rodgers finishs the season with the best record in his conference which it looks like the Colts and Saints will do and he puts up similiar numbers than yes I believe he should be considered. I'm not arguing AR is not a good QB, I'm been on of his biggest fans and supported starting him over Favre last season, just saying he is not quite in the MVP discussion yet.

He's halfway there. He's putting up MVP numbers. Hell, his numbers were identical that of the MVP's last year. And he's proving this year that his performance last year was no fluke. The only stat that wasn't nearly identical to Mannings was the tally in the win column. As soon as the team starts posting MVP type numbers in the win column he's going to be a significant part of that discussion.

Brees just brought his team back from down 21 points on the road, when AR starts to have those type of games then he'll be in the MVP discussion.

Favre's got 3 MVP awards and the biggest comeback he ever had was 14 points which he just achieved against Seattle in the playoffs in 07. Before that Favre's biggest comeback was 11 points. One doesn't have to bring back a team from 21+ points to be in the discussion. Of course, it does help.

[Brandon494]

Never compared Rodgers to Payton and Drew. Those two have established themselves far more than Rodgers has. I just said that he's beloved by the media, and you can't watch an episode of Fox NFL Sunday or NFL Countdown or SportsCenter without hearing those guys singing his praise. I call that being beloved by the media, what would you call it?

Do you think that even if Rodgers puts up identical stats and the Packers finish with an identical record that there's no way Rodgers would get the same consideration as Payton and Drew? If so, why? And how does he get that respect if winning and numbers aren't enough? What would he have to do in your opinion?

I know you never compared him to those guys, Im just saying even though the media does talk about Rodgers they talk about Brees and Manning 10 times more because they are both undefeated. IF Rodgers finishs the season with the best record in his conference which it looks like the Colts and Saints will do and he puts up similiar numbers than yes I believe he should be considered. I'm not arguing AR is not a good QB, I'm been on of his biggest fans and supported starting him over Favre last season, just saying he is not quite in the MVP discussion yet.

He's halfway there. He's putting up MVP numbers. Hell, his numbers were identical that of the MVP's last year. And he's proving this year that his performance last year was no fluke. The only stat that wasn't nearly identical to Mannings was the tally in the win column. As soon as the team starts posting MVP type numbers in the win column he's going to be a significant part of that discussion.

Brees just brought his team back from down 21 points on the road, when AR starts to have those type of games then he'll be in the MVP discussion.

Favre's got 3 MVP awards and the biggest comeback he ever had was 14 points which he just achieved against Seattle in the playoffs in 07. Before that Favre's biggest comeback was 11 points. One doesn't have to bring back a team from 21+ points to be in the discussion. Of course, it does help.

Well Favre does have the most 4th quarter comebacks, I believe AR has only 1. That was my point, not that you have to bring a team back from 21 down.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well Favre does have the most 4th quarter comebacks, I believe AR has only 1. That was my point, not that you have to bring a team back from 21 down.

Technically, Rodgers has 3. And Gunakor is correct. He didn't say Rodgers would be the MVP right now. He said that if Rodgers maintains his guady stats and the Packers finish with a record close to the other top contenders, he'll be a favorite to win it. Right now, he wouldn't be. If those things happened though, he would be.

[channtheman]

Never compared Rodgers to Payton and Drew. Those two have established themselves far more than Rodgers has. I just said that he's beloved by the media, and you can't watch an episode of Fox NFL Sunday or NFL Countdown or SportsCenter without hearing those guys singing his praise. I call that being beloved by the media, what would you call it?

Do you think that even if Rodgers puts up identical stats and the Packers finish with an identical record that there's no way Rodgers would get the same consideration as Payton and Drew? If so, why? And how does he get that respect if winning and numbers aren't enough? What would he have to do in your opinion?

I know you never compared him to those guys, Im just saying even though the media does talk about Rodgers they talk about Brees and Manning 10 times more because they are both undefeated. IF Rodgers finishs the season with the best record in his conference which it looks like the Colts and Saints will do and he puts up similiar numbers than yes I believe he should be considered. I'm not arguing AR is not a good QB, I'm been on of his biggest fans and supported starting him over Favre last season, just saying he is not quite in the MVP discussion yet.

He's halfway there. He's putting up MVP numbers. Hell, his numbers were identical that of the MVP's last year. And he's proving this year that his performance last year was no fluke. The only stat that wasn't nearly identical to Mannings was the tally in the win column. As soon as the team starts posting MVP type numbers in the win column he's going to be a significant part of that discussion.

Brees just brought his team back from down 21 points on the road, when AR starts to have those type of games then he'll be in the MVP discussion.

Favre's got 3 MVP awards and the biggest comeback he ever had was 14 points which he just achieved against Seattle in the playoffs in 07. Before that Favre's biggest comeback was 11 points. One doesn't have to bring back a team from 21+ points to be in the discussion. Of course, it does help.

Well Favre does have the most 4th quarter comebacks, I believe AR has only 1. That was my point, not that you have to bring a team back from 21 down.

Well that's true and I also agree with that. I do think Rodgers has the numbers to be an MVP winner though. He probably won't really be in the discussion for a year or two at least. Or until he gets the Packers to the playoffs and wins a few games. But I think it is realistic to think that Rodgers will win an MVP sometime in his career.

[Waldo]

I believe AR has 2 4th quarter comebacks on his resume.

It is a flawed stat. Detroit last year counts as one.

Brett has less than 10 come from behind victories on his record with less than 5:00 to play, and his with less than 2:00 to play I believe his victories can be counted with 2 fingers.