Packers Linebackers

[MichiganPackerFan]

In defense of Capers, early in the game, it looked like guys were lost on some of the plays. I think it would be hard for Capers to call a lot of deception schemes if his own players have no clue what they are doing.

Im not sure that's actually defense of Capers: a big part of his job is to make sure the players know what they're supposed to do.

[Guiness]

Agree with HW's post above.

If someone had said before the game that we'd limit AP's yardage to xx (whatever it was) do you think that gives us the best chance to win the game, I would've answered yes.

We dared them to beat us with Brett at the controls, and they did. If we' pressured him more, I suspect we would've seen AP rip some runs.

[rbaloha1]

Re: Packers Linebackers

Anyone who has dvr'd the game, you have to go re-watch the play where Favre had like 7.3 seconds to throw the ball. They show an angle from behind the Vikings line and if you watch Barnett, it is freakin hilarious.

He steps in, like a fake rush (but a terrible fake) then steps back a few steps, turns in a circle (lookin around like wth am I supposed to be)steps up then goes back again. Chiken with his head cut off type of play.

On that note, Barnett is not suited to play in a 3-4 defense. He is best asset is (or was) his speed and ability to run sideline to sideline and make plays. However, in a 3-4 the ilb's do not need to run side to side. They need to be agressive and meet plays head on and use their strength to attack. Yes, he lead the team in tackles vs Minny, but how many were 4 or more yards downfield ?

Barnett is totally miscast in his current role. In my opinion, the best LB group for the pack would be Chillar, Bishop, Hawk and Matthews.

Matthews shows flashes of what he will eventually be capable of doing, once he gets a few more games under his belt.

Hawk is now the lb that does the grunt work inside. So his tackle numbers will suffer, but he rarely is out of place.

Kampmann was a great DE in a 4-3, he currently a liability in Capers 3-4 (at least based on how he is being used at this point.) Chillar has shown he is a better blitzer, so far.)

Snake totally agrees. Barnett is horrible in this new 3-4. Bench his ass (fuck his contract) and bring up my man Bishop. Barnett in 4 games looks clueless. Matthews (a rook mind you) makes plays...Hawk is ok. Chillar is a beast. Kampy is SO FUCKING LOST. Bring up the Bishop. What do they have to lose?

Ditto. Agree that MM is scared to blitz as much as DC really wants. Let Barnett pout and tweet.

[rbaloha1]

As Leroy Butler mentions the Packers needed to blitz Favre in obvious passing downs. The key was third down conversion--the Pack had the Vikings in predictable passing downs and consistently played cover 2.

Capers needs to bring fancy blitzes in obvious passing downs. What is the problem when the Pack possess 3 good cover corners?

[HarveyWallbangers]

As Leroy Butler mentions the Packers needed to blitz Favre in obvious passing downs. The key was third down conversion--the Pack had the Vikings in predictable passing downs and consistently played cover 2.

Capers needs to bring fancy blitzes in obvious passing downs. What is the problem when the Pack possess 3 good cover corners?

I think I'll rewatch the game in the next couple of days and see what we did on 3rd and long in the first half.

[pbmax]

Re: Packers Linebackers

Agree that MM is scared to blitz as much as DC really wants.

Evidence that McCarthy gets to change the D play call?

[pbmax]

Capers needs to bring fancy blitzes in obvious passing downs. What is the problem when the Pack possess 3 good cover corners?

3 good cover corners who would be playing zone if we blitz.

Capers played coverage on 3rd and long which is reasonable and it killed him from the last Viking drive of the first half until the 4th quarter. They players need to be able to play the coverage. A blitz doesn't help if someone is running free.

Favre wouldn't need time if they can't straighten out the coverage problems.

[mraynrand]

As Leroy Butler mentions the Packers needed to blitz Favre in obvious passing downs. The key was third down conversion--the Pack had the Vikings in predictable passing downs and consistently played cover 2.

Capers needs to bring fancy blitzes in obvious passing downs. What is the problem when the Pack possess 3 good cover corners?

I think I'll rewatch the game in the next couple of days and see what we did on 3rd and long in the first half.

first drive had 3rd and 1 3rd and 4; rusing first down and three yards bringing up 4th down , respectively
second drive 3rd and 14: three man rush, underneath throw, incomplete
third drive
3rd and 2 pass to rice, williams fell down
3rd and 11 - zone blitz, kamp in overage, barnett and matthews rush with jenkins and jolly - barnett got some pressure. Ball caught between harris and martin.
3rd and 11 - three man rush plus woodson off the corner. Zone blitz with Kamp and Jenkins dropping back. No pressure from Jolly, some from Chillar and Matthews. TD to Rice against Collins.


Final drive
3rd and 7 brought 6 - all three linebackers with a stunt - Barnett was held, chillar got some pressure; all three 'linemen' (kamp at LOLB, jolly, and jenkins were stoned). Favre just got the ball away. Matthews broke a double team from the LT and RB and almost got there. Complete to rice.

Harvin to the 4 came off a first down against a 3 man 'rush' 42 yard pass split woodson and martin coverage late. bogus Interference on Woddson's INT and ghost offside call against Bishop followed by TD next play from the 1.

[Bossman641]

When Favre has time, he can pick apart a defense’s weaknesses as well as anyone — which goes back to Woodson’s assertion the Packers could have brought more pressure. But when the Packers did rush more than four, on five of 29 dropbacks (17.2 percent), Favre was 5-for-5 for 61 yards, including two of the Vikings’ eight “explosive” pass plays of 16 yards or more, as well as Rice’s TD.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091006/PKR01/91006224/1058

[mraynrand]

When Favre has time, he can pick apart a defense’s weaknesses as well as anyone — which goes back to Woodson’s assertion the Packers could have brought more pressure. But when the Packers did rush more than four, on five of 29 dropbacks (17.2 percent), Favre was 5-for-5 for 61 yards, including two of the Vikings’ eight “explosive” pass plays of 16 yards or more, as well as Rice’s TD.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/.../91006224/1058

The same thing happened to the 49ers. The thing that killed the Packers was the pass off of receivers in the zone coverage. All long plays were thrown between Harris or Woodson releasing their receiver to Martin (first half).

[mraynrand]

BTW, can anyone see Bishop offsides? This is .01 seconds before the snap.

[Bossman641]

BTW, can anyone see Bishop offsides? This is .01 seconds before the snap.

The offsides was on Bishop?

I thought it was on Poppinga. Is that BP lined up next to Jenkins?

[mraynrand]

The offsides was on Bishop?

I thought it was on Poppinga. Is that BP lined up next to Jenkins?

The announced call was on #55. They probably screwed up the number. Still, it was a bullshit call

[Deputy Nutz]

Nutz, great thread.

Agree with KYP, Matthews should be starting every down now (not just nickel) and Poppinga should only go in if there is a shooting.

Disagree with Nutz on Raji, he was projected as Nose in the pros before the Packers even made the coaching change. Scouts can be wrong, but I am not sure we have seen enough to know his best spot in a D he hasn't played in the pros.

Not ready to give up on Barnett in this scheme, but he is not healthy yet. He had a play in Phoenix I think (his first preseason game back) that had him sliding down the line left shadowing the RB. When the back cut and hit the hole, Barnett could have planted and went at him, but he took one or two extra hop steps while turning back to the hole to get his feet set. It looked to me like he wanted nothing to do with planting on his repaired leg.

Its going to take until much deeper into the season before he is comfortable with that knee.

One scheme/coverage note. Mark Chmura noted on two plays (one by Woodson and one by Harris) that they passed along a receiver deep and outside to a single safety coverage. He called this coverage Cover (1 or 3*) Lightning. Both plays resulted in long gains along the sideline if I am thinking of the same plays he is.

He explained that the other safety has come up to fill another zone, run support or blitz and that this leaves a single safety deep in the middle. The cornerbacks no longer have just the short zones outside, but must go with the receiver deep if they stay outside. Chmura said both Harris and Woodson released their guys too early and should have turned and run with them.

*don't remember which

I didn't start the thread, but to counter your point on Raji was that he was a defensive tackle that could take on a two gap scheme, play nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme, or a he had the quickness with the big body to also play a 3 technique in a 4-3. Raji is a pretty flexible interior defensive linemen, but at this point I would be excited to see both him and Pickett line up at the same time and protect our linebackers.

Again I look at our roster and it is mind boggling that we did nothing with free agency to bolster our defense for the switch to the 3-4. As a 4-3 team this defense would look pretty good on paper with Kampy at LDE, Pickett, Raji, with Jolly rotating in, and Jenkins at RDE. Hawk at wlb, Barnett at mlb, and Mathews at slb.

I would have liked to see the Packers use a hybrid 3-4 like what they use in Baltimore.

[Guiness]

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/.../91006224/1058

Ok, who from here is posting in the comments section of the gazette?

The reason Smith was cut was he had terrible pad level. While Martin can't get into the right position, he has great pad level. That makes all the difference.