Besides the OL, what is our biggest problem?

[mraynrand]

I understand why Capers didn't want to blitz the inside guys, but why not send the OLBs through the gut, or twist them, or line two up on the same side, or do something different..

Look at the game. He tried all that. It didn't get there. When he loaded up the left side of the Vikings O line - Favre got the ball to Harvin (covered by Kampman). On a zone blitz, you have to get there. The Packers failed. But it's nice to see Kampman in man coverage on Harvin. That really plays to their strength.

[Partial]

I understand why Capers didn't want to blitz the inside guys, but why not send the OLBs through the gut, or twist them, or line two up on the same side, or do something different..

Look at the game. He tried all that. It didn't get there. When he loaded up the left side of the Vikings O line - Favre got the ball to Harvin (covered by Kampman). On a zone blitz, you have to get there. The Packers failed. But it's nice to see Kampman in man coverage on Harvin. That really plays to their strength.

I didn't see the OLBs get sent inside at all, but I also only watched basically the second half.

[Bossman641]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

[Partial]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

The Packers don't do this. The Steelers do.

[pbmax]

How do Barbre and Lang get to that point if they don't play?

If they are not ready now they learn behind a seasoned veteran who can play now

We've implemented the recipe for killing Aaron Rodgers and at this point it's one nasty hot sauce that could blow the season up at any time.

Then who do you replace with who?

Hasta La Vista to Breno and Deitrich Smith for starters. You can find those guys on the last round of cuts every year. Unfortunately it can't occur til the offseason and since we have TT it probably will not occur anyways. Let's just hope the kids become men before AROD breaks in half.

Bretsky, these guys are not around after cuts. Orlando Pace singed later in FA and he is no better than Clifton or Lang at pass protection right now. Did you see him play the Bengals? I think we are kidding ourselves if we think better is available at a premium position like Tackle.

You misunderstood me; I was noting guys like Breno and Smith are around every year after cuts. They have little value on this roster IMO.

Bottom line is the GM needs to get better players on OL if the current guys are not ready to play and be at least average. It's his job.

If we are willing to admit these guys are just kids and not ready to succeed than IMO that is a shortcoming

Gotcha. But I think the point still stands. There are not very many reliable Tackles in FA who do not have baggage just like the current crop we have. Orlando Pace was a big Tackle signing and he is done as a pass blocker. And the Bear running game has gone to hell in a handbasket as well.

[mraynrand]

Gotcha. But I think the point still stands. There are not very many reliable Tackles in FA who do not have baggage just like the current crop we have. Orlando Pace was a big Tackle signing and he is done as a pass blocker. And the Bear running game has gone to hell in a handbasket as well.

Right. And that's where you have to have the Pro-personnel aspect of the GM in tune with the draft aspect. The Pro half says: TT, there aren't going to be any good FA Tackles avaialble in the next few years. Draft tackles. Then the Draft TT says to the Pro guy: Find me a guard or two to sign. The point: there has to be a better balance. Or Thompson may be gearing up to win in three or four years.

[chain_gang]

Re: Besides the OL, what is our biggest problem?

I'm curious to what you all think is the biggest problem besides the OL. It's clear that that is without a doubt the biggest problem.

What positions do we urgently need an upgrade at to improve?

What should be addressed in free agency/draft? What players are likely to be available to fill these roles and why would they be a good fit?

I believe two of the biggest are Scat Back and a kick returner, something we've never really been able to address in the draft. Field position wins you games. Enter Noel Devine(if he decides to come out)! I wouldn't mind spending at second round pick on him. Sorry a little to early for draft talk, just easily excited about it.

[red]

Re: Besides the OL, what is our biggest problem?

I'm curious to what you all think is the biggest problem besides the OL. It's clear that that is without a doubt the biggest problem.

What positions do we urgently need an upgrade at to improve?

What should be addressed in free agency/draft? What players are likely to be available to fill these roles and why would they be a good fit?

I believe two of the biggest are Scat Back and a kick returner, something we've never really been able to address in the draft. Field position wins you games. Enter Noel Devine(if he decides to come out)! I wouldn't mind spending at second round pick on him. Sorry a little to early for draft talk, just easily excited about it.

nope, cj spiller all day

[chain_gang]

Re: Besides the OL, what is our biggest problem?

nope, cj spiller all day

Nah, Noel would be the Devine intervention, that we so desperately need. Of course I have no issues with Spiller.

[sharpe1027]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

The Packers don't do this. The Steelers do.

I think they did. They were many blitzes on the second half and they almost got a couple of picks because of it (Barnett's tip for one). I also saw Kampman and Mathews coming in a bunch of different bliztes, including crossing up the middle. I credit the Vikings, at least partly, for good blocking.

[Partial]

They blitz more and more as the game goes on and seem to play more aggressive when the game is on the line.

I noticed this yesterday too. The second half D looked completely different. Even though they weren't getting to Favre, they were at least around him and were playing aggressively. I don't know if the difference was the play-calling or just the adrenaline from getting back in the game.

The Packers don't do this. The Steelers do.

I think they did. They were many blitzes on the second half and they almost got a couple of picks because of it (Barnett's tip for one). I also saw Kampman and Mathews coming in a bunch of different bliztes, including crossing up the middle. I credit the Vikings, at least partly, for good blocking.

They definitely blitzed more, I agree. I was referencing the Steeler's constant blitzing towards the end of games. They're much more aggressive than we are.

[bobblehead]

Special Teams. The vikings played a short field all day long, while we were backed up most of the time other than when the defense gave us a short field.

That is what this thread is about right?? It seems to have gotten sidetracked from "other than OL" to "only the OL"

Look, when you keep Jarret Bush and 3 FB's and cite special teams as the reason you need to be better....plus, I know Crosby has a ton of leg, but he is just not accurate. I can't recall him making more than one past 50 this year, and last season he missed 2 game winners. For real, time to "clean up special teams"

[Freak Out]

It seemed like the Vikes started at midfield most of the damn game. That just makes it to easy....

I just about shit when I saw Green running back kicks......that's what it's come to?

[sharpe1027]

They definitely blitzed more, I agree. I was referencing the Steeler's constant blitzing towards the end of games. They're much more aggressive than we are.

You're probably right, I didn't see much of the Steeler's game. I would, however, caution against confusing the successfullness of a blitz with the agressivness of the blitz. I find myself often not rembering a blitz unless it got to the QB.

[wist43]

OL of course, both Corners, and defensive front 7 in general.

The need LB's that can bring heat... Kamp is gone next year, and Hawk and Barnett aren't a good fit.

On defense, it's going to take time...

Offense... don't know what to tell ya. That's been TT's and MM's model for "build from within"... and there are some decent players in there; but, given the offensive scheme, and MM's penchant for out smarting himself with formations and play calling - I just don't know what to tell ya - hopefully they come around, coz MM and the the system aren't going anywhere.

Here we are 3 1/2 years after a lot of us came over from JSO... and we're younger, but no closer to winning a championship than when TT took over.

I said it then, and I'll say it now... I just don't see how, or when, TT brings it all together to make a push for a championship. He's got to change his approach, admit he's missed on some high draft picks, admit he has holes in his roster, and seek to fill them thru avenues other than the draft.