Aaron gets a big win

[pbmax]

i seem to remember a few "throw the F'n ball" posts during the game thread. wasn't his fumble on one such play?

Don't remember the fumble but he had one play where he held onto it well past the point of prudence.

[Partial]

Re: Aaron gets a big win

Massive props to Aaron for getting the job done today against a good, winning team. That run on 3rd down where he took the hit told me everything I needed to know about how much he wanted this game. Sure, that drive resulted in a punt due to a sack, but he played a very good game all things considered. He made the plays when they were there, didn't make mistakes, etc.

Props on a job well done.

Not bad for an average quarterback, huh?

I want to be clear that I don't think he played great by any means, but he played well enough to get it done.

However, all four facets of the game were working and as a result he didn't have to do much.

One of the GBPG guys yesterday was talking about how some scouts that he talks to rank Aaron even lower than I do. They had them ranked in the upper teens to the low twenties (if I remember correctly).

[Partial]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/70430057.html

Good article. I agree. He was money on third down when it mattered against the 'boys.

[Waldo]

Re: Aaron gets a big win

One of the GBPG guys yesterday was talking about how some scouts that he talks to rank Aaron even lower than I do. They had them ranked in the upper teens to the low twenties (if I remember correctly).

So?

Scout implies some sort of professional that watches players at a very detailed level and grades them all, some sort of oracle that knows more than the commoner.

Sadly this rarely is the case with most "scouts" mentioned. I mean Cliffy lets us know who his great scout is, some assistant HS coach as a school in nowhere Wi.

Even if it were the case with those scouts, there is a reason they are scouts and not general managers. Much of the scouting that the minor pro scouts do is nothing more than data collection for the big dogs to quickly sift through. In other words, nobody really cares about their opinion all that much.

Just as many "scouts" rank him very highly.

But that doesn't fit their story, now does it.

[MOBB DEEP]

Is this the first time aaron is 3 games over .500 as our QB?

This dude is off the chain; how blessed we are to transition SO nicely from one HOFer to ANOTHER...!!

Brees who?

[Partial]

He's playing well, thats for sure.

[ThunderDan]

He's playing well, thats for sure.

Which is it?

He's the next big deal, He sucks, he's good, he's average, he sucks, he's playing well.

[Partial]

He's playing well, thats for sure.

Which is it?

He's the next big deal, He sucks, he's good, he's average, he sucks, he's playing well.

He's playing well right now, that doesn't mean he is a star player or even a good player. You cannot look at a few game stretch and ignore the entire body of work. He's still below .500 as a starter.

Tom Peliserro just was talking about Rodgers with scouts and they ranked him in around 20, very similar to where the scouts McGinn talked to ranked him. I have him higher than that as I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see that he has talent, but he's probably around the 10-12 best QB in the NFL. Middle third.

[ThunderDan]

He's playing well, thats for sure.

Which is it?

He's the next big deal, He sucks, he's good, he's average, he sucks, he's playing well.

He's playing well right now, that doesn't mean he is a star player or even a good player. You cannot look at a few game stretch and ignore the entire body of work. He's still below .500 as a starter.

Tom Peliserro just was talking about Rodgers with scouts and they ranked him in around 20, very similar to where the scouts McGinn talked to ranked him. I have him higher than that as I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see that he has talent, but he's probably around the 10-12 best QB in the NFL. Middle third.

Please tell me you're joking!

[Lurker64]

Please tell me you're joking!

I agree with your hope, but knowing a little about Partial I fear that he's not joking.

It's beyond me how a player who has started every game deep into a season and currently ranks 4th in completions, 9th in completion percentage, 2nd in yards, 2nd in YPA, 1st in TDs, 4th in "fewest INTs), and 3rd in QB rating is "average" or "in the middle tier".

You can say that Rodgers is near the bottom of the top third of QBs, but the middle third is guys like Hasselbeck, David Garrard, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, and Trent Edwards. Rodgers is clearly a cut above these guys. The only reason I can think of to underrate Rodgers so vastly is by being spoiled by years of solid QB play for the Packers. The average standard of NFL Quarterbacking is profoundly mediocre; the middle of the road guys stink, and the bottom of the barrel guys really stink.

[Partial]

Please tell me you're joking!

I agree with your hope, but knowing a little about Partial I fear that he's not joking.

It's beyond me how a player who has started every game deep into a season and currently ranks 4th in completions, 9th in completion percentage, 2nd in yards, 2nd in YPA, 1st in TDs, 4th in "fewest INTs), and 3rd in QB rating is "average" or "in the middle tier".

You can say that Rodgers is near the bottom of the top third of QBs, but the middle third is guys like Hasselbeck, David Garrard, Jason Campbell, Alex Smith, and Trent Edwards. Rodgers is clearly a cut above these guys. The only reason I can think of to underrate Rodgers so vastly is by being spoiled by years of solid QB play for the Packers. The average standard of NFL Quarterbacking is profoundly mediocre; the middle of the road guys stink, and the bottom of the barrel guys really stink.

If those are the middle tier guys, then who are the bad starters?!?

I personally think Hass is a better player, though he's had a lot of injury issues, etc. He's been successful over a long period of time and made it to a super bowl, so you owe him some credit.

My top 12 (on todays talent) right now in no particular order are as follows:

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Eli Manning (throwing to absolute garbage receivers..)
4. Carson Palmer
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Phillip Rivers
7. Aaron Rodgers
8. Donovan McNabb
9. Matt Ryan
10. Drew Brees
11. Tony Romo
12. Kurt Warner

He's playing very well right now. I'm a reasonable person and give credit where credit is due. He may even make a pro bowl if the team continues to ascend towards the playoffs and win games.

He's playing like a good player right now. Not elite, but good. Better than solid. Continue to do this and win games and I'll consider him a good player. Start carrying the team on your back and pulling out games they should not win and I will start to think of him as elite. Both of these are fair, rational thoughts.

Ultimately, a QB is an extension of the coach and is "quarterbacking" the offense. How often is the person whose responsible for a teams success, say a manager at work, is referred to as "quarterbacking" the team? Often. I judge largely in the same way I judge a coach. On wins. Sure, there are obviously more factors, namely a defense and quality of supporting cast, etc, but ultimately I feel that most GMs and personnel professionals judge a QB in this manner as well. Win the ball game and you get credit. Lose and you take the blame.

I don't know what I'd be joking about. I said where I ranked him and that is reasonable. I said where some scouts have mentioned and that is there opinion, which mine doesn't jive very well with, but it just goes to show that not everyone is universally super high on him..

update: WOW, I didn't even put Favre in the list..

[Lurker64]

If those are the middle tier guys, then who are the bad starters?!?

This year? Guys like Brady Quinn, Jamarcus Russell, Derek Anderson, Matthew Stafford (rookie), Mark Sanchez (rookie), Kerry Collins, Matt Cassell, Jake Delhomme, Jay Cutler (say what you want about his talent, but he hasn't played well), and Marc Bulger.

[Partial]

If those are the middle tier guys, then who are the bad starters?!?

This year? Guys like Brady Quinn, Jamarcus Russell, Derek Anderson, Matthew Stafford (rookie), Mark Sanchez (rookie), Kerry Collins, Matt Cassell, Jake Delhomme, Jay Cutler (say what you want about his talent, but he hasn't played well), and Marc Bulger.

Okay that is a fair list.

[Bossman641]

He's playing well, thats for sure.

Which is it?

He's the next big deal, He sucks, he's good, he's average, he sucks, he's playing well.

He's playing well right now, that doesn't mean he is a star player or even a good player. You cannot look at a few game stretch and ignore the entire body of work. He's still below .500 as a starter.

Tom Peliserro just was talking about Rodgers with scouts and they ranked him in around 20, very similar to where the scouts McGinn talked to ranked him. I have him higher than that as I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see that he has talent, but he's probably around the 10-12 best QB in the NFL. Middle third.

Do you have a link to this? I'd love to see it.

[Partial]

He's playing well, thats for sure.

Which is it?

He's the next big deal, He sucks, he's good, he's average, he sucks, he's playing well.

He's playing well right now, that doesn't mean he is a star player or even a good player. You cannot look at a few game stretch and ignore the entire body of work. He's still below .500 as a starter.

Tom Peliserro just was talking about Rodgers with scouts and they ranked him in around 20, very similar to where the scouts McGinn talked to ranked him. I have him higher than that as I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see that he has talent, but he's probably around the 10-12 best QB in the NFL. Middle third.

Do you have a link to this? I'd love to see it.

I believe it was in one of the articles you personally requested that I post, yet didn't even say thank you like a selfish jerk.

Go find it yourself. It's either in the list of articles I posted for you or JSO or GBPG. Coudln't be more than two weeks old.

Since I'm a really nice, great guy despite you being a total douchebag (it takes two seconds to say thank you, fucking really...), here is your link.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091115/PKR01/311150118/-1/pkrchat/Read-the-transcript--Postgame-chat-with-Tom-Pelissero

On an unrelated note, I absolutely do not like these damn wrappers for content that break indexing content.