Reggie Bush a Packer in 2010?

[SnakeLH2006]

We've already got a third down back that excels at pass blocking and is capable of making plays with the ball.

Did we sign someone? Regardless, you can't doubt that Bush is one of the top decoys in the NFL, by far....I really feel he makes those other guys make plays in NO (based on his ability to stretch the field). Those decoys are almost as valuable as production...Not to mention the dude is an electric mofo that can take any kick/punt back. For $6 million, it's reasonable, esp. given his upside. Those punt returns/kick returns win games. Blackmon was getting pretty good at it, but he's too hurt to be reliable.

I'd rather "waste" $6 million on Bush putting up "pedestrian" RB numbers, and making EVERYONE (Arod, Grant, Finley) better on O, and proving his merit as a beast returning kicks. For Snake, that is a bargain, as guys who explode making TD's on punt/kick returns win games singlehandedly. I'll take that over Kampy anyday when he wants $6 million with his old, gimpy knees at at out of place position, for example.

There's too much talk about Bush's "production" as he has underwhelmed, but his DECOY ability is where it's at. Don't tell me that D-coordinators don't cringe trying to "contain" Bush, and see some of those subpar (IMO WR's from NO) tear it up. Welcome to NFL football, as very few NFL players have Barry-Deion Sanders ability to win a game on pure athletic ability. Bush does, and makes his team better.

Sign him. Worry about the hurt feelings later about contracts. For ability alone, $6 million is a bargain to tear up ST and decoy at will on O, and prob. have better stats in a pure West-Coast O. His best days are still to come on a new team, IMO.

[Gunakor]

Both Jackson and Green are good at blitz pickups. Both Jackson and Green are outstanding pass receivers. Neither is great running between the tackles, but then again neither is Bush - and how often are you running between the tackles on 3rd down anyway?

I don't doubt that Bush is one of the NFL's top decoys. But you don't pay 6 million per year to a guy to be a decoy. You don't pay Bush 6 million when Grant is only getting 4. Bush would be best served as a return man on our team, and if the rumors about Cribbs are true and we get him to dress in Green and Gold next season (for substantially less than 6 million dollars) then there's really no justification for brining in Bush at the salary it'll take to get him to want to play here. Honestly, the only way I'd bring Bush in is at Brandon Jackson's salary, because that's how he'll be used. I'd bet good money that he wouldn't touch the ball more than 10 or 15 times a game. 6 million per year is an awful lot of money per touch at that rate.

Weren't you one of the guys bitching about how Ryan Grant is making too much money? How can you bitch about Ryan Grant's 4 million per year and at the same time endorse paying Reggie Bush 6 million?

[SnakeLH2006]

Weren't you one of the guys bitching about how Ryan Grant is making too much money? How can you bitch about Ryan Grant's 4 million per year and at the same time endorse paying Reggie Bush 6 million?

Get your facts straight, Gun. Grant is now due $6.5 million after his escalator clause for 1250 yards in 2010, not $4 million, not to mention more in incentives. WTF.

At $4 million (don't know where you got that), I got no probs, but $6.5 is a bit for a guy who only declines (age, running style) from here on out (Grant).

I endorse Bush cuz he could exceed his RB totals rushing so far in NO, and maybe get his 100 catches again (he's had that...as Grant couldn't catch a cold at RB). And....he'd be a decoy to make everyone better/and their stats...and be a beast at PR/KR and win some games.

$6 million...no probs for what Bush brings to the table at all....not at all.

[Gunakor]

Weren't you one of the guys bitching about how Ryan Grant is making too much money? How can you bitch about Ryan Grant's 4 million per year and at the same time endorse paying Reggie Bush 6 million?

Get your facts straight, Gun. Grant is now due $6.5 million after his escalator clause for 1250 yards in 2010, not $4 million, not to mention more in incentives. WTF.

At $4 million (don't know where you got that), I got no probs, but $6.5 is a bit for a guy who only declines (age, running style) from here on out (Grant).

I endorse Bush cuz he could exceed his RB totals rushing so far in NO, and maybe get his 100 catches again (he's had that...as Grant couldn't catch a cold at RB). And....he'd be a decoy to make everyone better/and their stats...and be a beast at PR/KR and win some games.

$6 million...no probs for what Bush brings to the table at all....not at all.

4 million is/was his base. The incentives he had to earn. What, because he earned those incentives now he's making too much money? That's ridiculous, if you earn your incentives then you deserve the money. 1250 yards is 1250 yards. He did that. Now he's getting paid for that. I still don't see the problem.

[SnakeLH2006]

Weren't you one of the guys bitching about how Ryan Grant is making too much money? How can you bitch about Ryan Grant's 4 million per year and at the same time endorse paying Reggie Bush 6 million?

Get your facts straight, Gun. Grant is now due $6.5 million after his escalator clause for 1250 yards in 2010, not $4 million, not to mention more in incentives. WTF.

At $4 million (don't know where you got that), I got no probs, but $6.5 is a bit for a guy who only declines (age, running style) from here on out (Grant).

I endorse Bush cuz he could exceed his RB totals rushing so far in NO, and maybe get his 100 catches again (he's had that...as Grant couldn't catch a cold at RB). And....he'd be a decoy to make everyone better/and their stats...and be a beast at PR/KR and win some games.

$6 million...no probs for what Bush brings to the table at all....not at all.

4 million is/was his base. The incentives he had to earn. What, because he earned those incentives now he's making too much money? That's ridiculous, if you earn your incentives then you deserve the money. 1250 yards is 1250 yards. He did that. Now he's getting paid for that. I still don't see the problem.

LOL...WTF are you talking about Gun? You said $4 million....I stated he's gonna make a new base of $6.5 plus incentives in 2010 (a base is what you start at in a given year), and you go back and say that is/was a base? What? Defending $4 million (you were wrong) is different than elite money ($6.5 million), yet you go back and talk about $4 million. What? Yeah, he got paid, but your stats are wrong when you talk about it. $4 million....ok deal for Grant...(your stats)...earned incentives...gets $6.5 million which you missed (plus incentives)...whatever I don't like it, but sure would be happy to give Bush $6 million to win some games for us then, regardless.

[Gunakor]

Weren't you one of the guys bitching about how Ryan Grant is making too much money? How can you bitch about Ryan Grant's 4 million per year and at the same time endorse paying Reggie Bush 6 million?

Get your facts straight, Gun. Grant is now due $6.5 million after his escalator clause for 1250 yards in 2010, not $4 million, not to mention more in incentives. WTF.

At $4 million (don't know where you got that), I got no probs, but $6.5 is a bit for a guy who only declines (age, running style) from here on out (Grant).

I endorse Bush cuz he could exceed his RB totals rushing so far in NO, and maybe get his 100 catches again (he's had that...as Grant couldn't catch a cold at RB). And....he'd be a decoy to make everyone better/and their stats...and be a beast at PR/KR and win some games.

$6 million...no probs for what Bush brings to the table at all....not at all.

4 million is/was his base. The incentives he had to earn. What, because he earned those incentives now he's making too much money? That's ridiculous, if you earn your incentives then you deserve the money. 1250 yards is 1250 yards. He did that. Now he's getting paid for that. I still don't see the problem.

LOL...WTF are you talking about Gun? You said $4 million....I stated he's gonna make a new base of $6.5 plus incentives in 2010, and you go back and say that is/was a base? What? Defending $4 million (you were wrong) is different than elite money ($6.5 million), yet you go back and talk about $4 million. What? Yeah, he got paid, but your stats are wrong when you talk about it. $4 million....ok deal for Grant...(your stats)...earned incentives...gets $6.5 million which you missed (plus incentives)...whatever I don't like it, but sure would be happy to give Bush $6 million to win some games for us then, regardless.

You're missing the point. He earned his new salary. I don't include his earned incentives because that wasn't the salary he was signed to. He was signed at 4 million per, and earned his way up the pay scale.

Then you go on and talk about other incentives, all which have to be earned on top of what he's already done. If you earn the money, then you deserve it. He EARNED that 6 million. Why do you think its a shitty deal?

It's an incentives based deal. He doesn't produce, he doesn't get the incentives. As it is, he has produced. And I mean TOP TEN production, 2 years in a row. And now he's getting paid.

Answer this question. Why is it you think he's overpaid when he's a top 10 RB in the NFL who has earned every extra dollar on top of his original base salary that he's ever received? Then tell me why you'd give the same salary after incentives that Grant has to Reggie Bush who hasn't earned a goddamn thing.

Grant > Bush.

Grant >>> Bush.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYards/seasontype/2

7. Ryan Grant, RB, Green Bay Packers. 1253 yards, 11 TD's.

49(t). Reggie Bush, RB, New Orleans Saints. 390 yards, 5 TD's.

Black and white Snake. Now why is it that 1253 yards and 11 TD's is undeserving of 6 million dollars while a 390 yard 5 TD decoy should be getting that money?

[SnakeLH2006]

Contracts aren't ever fair in the NFL. Do I think Grant is deserving of one of the top 5 RB contracts in the NFL. Nope....You know why? Cuz he's not even a top 10 RB you'd want on your team. Did he "earn" his incentives to get paid like a top 5 RB. Sure.

That's not what I'm debating. I don't like Grant. That is established. Is he decent...sure. Did he "earn" his cash. Sure. Is he worth it. Nope.

You are debating fairness in a contract year for one of the top 5 most electric players in the NFL, Reggie Bush.

Would almost any NFL exec give Reggie Bush $6 million yearly. Probably and then some, while they bent over backwards.

Semantics and fairness aside...Bush's value is his upside (Grant has none). He has ability to get 100 catches at RB (UBER rare at RB or any position for that matter). He "could" in a new (West Coast??) scheme excel at RB. He already beasts at ST (PR/KR).

Those are things you pay for. Say Ryan Grant was a FA. I really doubt anyone would offer him a multi-year deal at $6.5 yearly. I bet GM's fall over themselves offering Bush the same money.

It has nothing to do with stats, as it is production/explosion/decoy ability/potential in a new system/pure explosion.....It's not even close. So quit comparing stats (Grant has been solid) to Bush (hurt, but most GM's/fans) are willing to pay for the future. Bush could be a top 5 beast if EVERYTHING WORKED OUT. That's what he's gonna get paid for....at worst...he's a decoy extreme. D's don't worry about Ryan Grant....they worry where Reggie Bush is lining up.

[Gunakor]

Contracts aren't ever fair in the NFL. Do I think Grant is deserving of one of the top 5 RB contracts in the NFL. Nope....You know why? Cuz he's not even a top 10 RB you'd want on your team. Did he "earn" his incentives to get paid like a top 5 RB. Sure.

That's not what I'm debating. I don't like Grant. That is established. Is he decent...sure. Did he "earn" his cash. Sure. Is he worth it. Nope.

You are debating fairness in a contract year for one of the top 5 most electric players in the NFL, Reggie Bush.

Would almost any NFL exec give Reggie Bush $6 million yearly. Probably and then some, while they bent over backwards.

Semantics and fairness aside...Bush's value is his upside (Grant has none). He has ability to get 100 catches at RB (UBER rare at RB or any position for that matter). He "could" in a new (West Coast??) scheme excel at RB. He already beasts at ST (PR/KR).

Those are things you pay for. Say Ryan Grant was a FA. I really doubt anyone would offer him a multi-year deal at $6.5 yearly. I bet GM's fall over themselves offering Bush the same money.

It has nothing to do with stats, as it is production/explosion/decoy ability/potential in a new system/pure explosion.....It's not even close. So quit comparing stats (Grant has been solid) to Bush (hurt, but most GM's/fans) are willing to pay for the future. Bush could be a top 5 beast if EVERYTHING WORKED OUT. That's what he's gonna get paid for....at worst...he's a decoy extreme. D's don't worry about Ryan Grant....they worry where Reggie Bush is lining up.

I'd love to see some evidence of the bolded portions of this post.

If I were a GM I'd most definitely consider paying a guy who finished in the top 10 in rushing 2 years in a row playing behind one of the worst run blocking lines in football in a pass happy offense 6 million per year. In a heartbeat. You just love to brush aside what Grant has accomplished in 2 and a half years as a Packer, don't you. Getting the job done isn't enough, you have to do it a certain way or you ain't shit. Is that what you're saying?

Grant's upside is that he's a top 10 back in the NFL. He already IS that. Bush's upside is that he might become a top 10 back in the NFL if everything worked out. He MIGHT be that, but only if everything works out. See where I'm going with this? You can argue all you want that Grant doesn't look like a top 10 back whereas Bush does, but the facts speak for themselves.

7. Ryan Grant, RB, Green Bay Packers. 1253 yards, 11 TD's.

49(t). Reggie Bush, RB, New Orleans Saints. 390 yards, 5 TD's.

It is what it is yo. Besides, if you dislike Grant as much as you're letting on, then you must have absolutely HATED Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett. Grant > Levens. Grant >> Bennett. Grant >>> Bush.

[Fritz]

Can we get a crazy-ass kick and punt returner in the draft who stays healthier than Blackmon and has better hands (and is less stupid) than Cory Rodgers?

[gbgary]

Contracts aren't ever fair in the NFL. Do I think Grant is deserving of one of the top 5 RB contracts in the NFL. Nope....You know why? Cuz he's not even a top 10 RB you'd want on your team. Did he "earn" his incentives to get paid like a top 5 RB. Sure.

That's not what I'm debating. I don't like Grant. That is established. Is he decent...sure. Did he "earn" his cash. Sure. Is he worth it. Nope.

You are debating fairness in a contract year for one of the top 5 most electric players in the NFL, Reggie Bush.

Would almost any NFL exec give Reggie Bush $6 million yearly. Probably and then some, while they bent over backwards.

Semantics and fairness aside...Bush's value is his upside (Grant has none). He has ability to get 100 catches at RB (UBER rare at RB or any position for that matter). He "could" in a new (West Coast??) scheme excel at RB. He already beasts at ST (PR/KR).

Those are things you pay for. Say Ryan Grant was a FA. I really doubt anyone would offer him a multi-year deal at $6.5 yearly. I bet GM's fall over themselves offering Bush the same money.

It has nothing to do with stats, as it is production/explosion/decoy ability/potential in a new system/pure explosion.....It's not even close. So quit comparing stats (Grant has been solid) to Bush (hurt, but most GM's/fans) are willing to pay for the future. Bush could be a top 5 beast if EVERYTHING WORKED OUT. That's what he's gonna get paid for....at worst...he's a decoy extreme. D's don't worry about Ryan Grant....they worry where Reggie Bush is lining up.

I'd love to see some evidence of the bolded portions of this post.

If I were a GM I'd most definitely consider paying a guy who finished in the top 10 in rushing 2 years in a row playing behind one of the worst run blocking lines in football in a pass happy offense 6 million per year. In a heartbeat. You just love to brush aside what Grant has accomplished in 2 and a half years as a Packer, don't you. Getting the job done isn't enough, you have to do it a certain way or you ain't shit. Is that what you're saying?

Grant's upside is that he's a top 10 back in the NFL. He already IS that. Bush's upside is that he might become a top 10 back in the NFL if everything worked out. He MIGHT be that, but only if everything works out. See where I'm going with this? You can argue all you want that Grant doesn't look like a top 10 back whereas Bush does, but the facts speak for themselves.

7. Ryan Grant, RB, Green Bay Packers. 1253 yards, 11 TD's.

49(t). Reggie Bush, RB, New Orleans Saints. 390 yards, 5 TD's.

It is what it is yo. Besides, if you dislike Grant as much as you're letting on, then you must have absolutely HATED Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett. Grant > Levens. Grant >> Bennett. Grant >>> Bush.

i'd agree. as long as bush is in the backfield i don't think teams pay him any mind. if bush came here and got 390 yards rushing we'd all be longing for eddie lee ivory.

[SnakeLH2006]

Grant's upside is that he's a top 10 back in the NFL. He already IS that. Bush's upside is that he might become a top 10 back in the NFL if everything worked out. He MIGHT be that, but only if everything works out. See where I'm going with this? You can argue all you want that Grant doesn't look like a top 10 back whereas Bush does, but the facts speak for themselves.

Besides, if you dislike Grant as much as you're letting on, then you must have absolutely HATED Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett.

Hold up, Gun, buddy. I'm not a Grant fan, but he did better as the season wore on. I don't have a big problem with his money ($6.5 million yearly now with incentives) as he earned it. The debate came up over value. I think Grant's value dissipates (via salary) when he became a top 5 paid RB. I think he has value and earned his incentives, though. He's not terrible and has value for sure, just not worth top five RB money, but argument wasn't over Grant's worth, but Bush's.

My point was I feel Bush is worth $6 million on the FA market as you are looking at him solely as an RB based on production. Sometimes (rare you have a chance to do so...but) you take a flier on an oft-injured player with limitless potential such as Bush. More to the point, my point was Bush is not JUST a RB. His value extends into maybe the top ST KR/PR this side of Joshua Cribbs in the NFL. That is value. Doesn't that waste of a WR named Hester make at least that (I think $8 million yearly) for failing at ST lately and WR? Yep. Bush has far more value than Hester.

I'm not trying to run down Grant (I like him, not just at $6.5 plus incentives). I'm only trying to say Bush is more than an RB. He's basically a change of pace RB, a beast split out (almost a WR who catches everything), and an absolute electric dude at ST (at punt and kick returns). You kept saying RB with stats. I wanna make it clear....Bush at $6 million would be a steal for a guy with his age/explosiveness for a change of pace at RB...split out catching passes on O, not to mention how much better he COULD make Grant, Finley, Jennings, Driver even better with his decoy ability......and then...have proven ability to change a game at ANY point returning kicks.

Grant is fine. At $6 million on the FA market in 2010, Bush is a steal for how much he can affect a game on ST, catching passes all over the field, and spelling Grant...and some decoy ability to lesson double teams on our "stars".

I think you misread/thought what I was saying, as I don't look at Bush as JUST an RB, and that's cool....he's much more. Grant is a MUCH better RB than Bush will EVER be, but Bush brings multi-dimensions to the table (untapped in a West Coast O that might play to his talents, to boot).

BTW, Snake wasn't much of an Edgar Bennett fan, but loved me some Dorsey Levens. He could run the ball and catch it. Haven't seen a GB RB complete like him till we saw Ahman Green in his prime.

It's all good though. So take a breath buddy, and keep it on the real:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc-WTIbI8yc

"Bounce back in, crack that Hen(essey), Im worldwide like a fifth of gin, plus I'm in it to win. Keep it on the real. If you real with me, I'll be real with you...Yeahhhhh."

Great song, sums it up. We are in to win (GB). I'm all about adding some pieces to our good team. Peace brotha. Snake loves his raps and late nite conversations with ya. Hope I cleared it up as far as the Bush/Grant debate....

[Tyrone Bigguns]

When Bush has back 2 back good games let's talk.

6 plus million for a decoy.

[Gunakor]

Grant's upside is that he's a top 10 back in the NFL. He already IS that. Bush's upside is that he might become a top 10 back in the NFL if everything worked out. He MIGHT be that, but only if everything works out. See where I'm going with this? You can argue all you want that Grant doesn't look like a top 10 back whereas Bush does, but the facts speak for themselves.

Besides, if you dislike Grant as much as you're letting on, then you must have absolutely HATED Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett.

Hold up, Gun, buddy. I'm not a Grant fan, but he did better as the season wore on. I don't have a big problem with his money ($6.5 million yearly now with incentives) as he earned it. The debate came up over value. I think Grant's value dissipates (via salary) when he became a top 5 paid RB. I think he has value and earned his incentives, though. He's not terrible and has value for sure, just not worth top five RB money, but argument wasn't over Grant's worth, but Bush's.

My point was I feel Bush is worth $6 million on the FA market as you are looking at him solely as an RB based on production. Sometimes (rare you have a chance to do so...but) you take a flier on an oft-injured player with limitless potential such as Bush. More to the point, my point was Bush is not JUST a RB. His value extends into maybe the top ST KR/PR this side of Joshua Cribbs in the NFL. That is value. Doesn't that waste of a WR named Hester make at least that (I think $8 million yearly) for failing at ST lately and WR? Yep. Bush has far more value than Hester.

I'm not trying to run down Grant (I like him, not just at $6.5 plus incentives). I'm only trying to say Bush is more than an RB. He's basically a change of pace RB, a beast split out (almost a WR who catches everything), and an absolute electric dude at ST (at punt and kick returns). You kept saying RB with stats. I wanna make it clear....Bush at $6 million would be a steal for a guy with his age/explosiveness for a change of pace at RB...split out catching passes on O, not to mention how much better he COULD make Grant, Finley, Jennings, Driver even better with his decoy ability......and then...have proven ability to change a game at ANY point returning kicks.

Grant is fine. At $6 million on the FA market in 2010, Bush is a steal for how much he can affect a game on ST, catching passes all over the field, and spelling Grant...and some decoy ability to lesson double teams on our "stars".

I think you misread/thought what I was saying, as I don't look at Bush as JUST an RB, and that's cool....he's much more. Grant is a MUCH better RB than Bush will EVER be, but Bush brings multi-dimensions to the table (untapped in a West Coast O that might play to his talents, to boot).

BTW, Snake wasn't much of an Edgar Bennett fan, but loved me some Dorsey Levens. He could run the ball and catch it. Haven't seen a GB RB complete like him till we saw Ahman Green in his prime.

It's all good though. So take a breath buddy, and keep it on the real:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc-WTIbI8yc

"Bounce back in, crack that Hen(essey), Im worldwide like a fifth of gin, plus I'm in it to win. Keep it on the real. If you real with me, I'll be real with you...Yeahhhhh."

Great song, sums it up. We are in to win (GB). I'm all about adding some pieces to our good team. Peace brotha. Snake loves his raps and late nite conversations with ya. Hope I cleared it up as far as the Bush/Grant debate....

Fair enough. I disagree, but I see where you're coming from. There's no question Bush can do things Grant cannot.

But, from a purely financial standpoint, I don't want 13+ million dollars tied up at the RB position. Not on a pass happy team such as ours.

[SnakeLH2006]

]
Fair enough. I disagree, but I see where you're coming from. There's no question Bush can do things Grant cannot.

But, from a purely financial standpoint, I don't want 13+ million dollars tied up at the RB position. Not on a pass happy team such as ours.

I hear ya there...but Bush is much more than an "RB" as he'll catch passes and help out the ST on all returns.

No matter what....I won't respond to Ty, but doesn't it make you sick to see his drivel appear (him and Partial are 1 and 2 in posts as they either post or have posted more than anyone and Snake has been on here for 4 years almost)...like it does. I'd LOVE to just have a late nite conversation without his UGLY head arriving. No? Gun, me and you have had some good late nite conversations.....sux having Ty interject some BS.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You can. It is called PM. Learn it, love it, use it.