Special Teams - Cover your eyes

[pbmax]

If you can, go to the Lions game and watch our gunners Nick Collins and Jarrett Bush. On almost every kick off they ran themselves right out of the play. They'd run full speed to the 20 and the kick returner would go right past them.

This has been S.O.P. for Bush his entire career, which has always made me wonder why people continue to, or ever did, call him a ST ace.

His specialty is gunner on punt coverage. But he doesn't seem to be helping there either.

Packers are 20th overall at 43.2 gross, dead last in coverage with 33.5 net.

[SkinBasket]

If you can, go to the Lions game and watch our gunners Nick Collins and Jarrett Bush. On almost every kick off they ran themselves right out of the play. They'd run full speed to the 20 and the kick returner would go right past them.

This has been S.O.P. for Bush his entire career, which has always made me wonder why people continue to, or ever did, call him a ST ace.

His specialty is gunner on punt coverage. But he doesn't seem to be helping there either.

Packers are 20th overall at 43.2 gross, dead last in coverage with 33.5 net.

And when do you ever see him making a tackle or even holding the corner to force the returner into the coverage team? Maybe he misheard and assumed his specialty is "runner."

[Smidgeon]

The Packers have been attempting the 'coffin corner' of sorts on kickoffs.

Still, I don't know why anyone would think that a punter as lousy as Kapinos would be able to directionally kick. Who knows, maybe suckitude in hangtime and distance make you better at kicking on an angle, but I doubt it.

This is my theory. If your hangtime sucks and your distance sucks, can you please learn to kick the ball on an angle so it hits out of bounds after it's been in the air, say, 38 - 40 yards?

A while ago there was a great article (don't remember where) about the art of the coffin corner punt. I think Feagles in NY was the last kicker with the mastery of it. I'm not sure this is the article I read back when, but I found an article about it anyway:

Coffin kicking ESPN column.

[KYPack]

The Packers have been attempting the 'coffin corner' of sorts on kickoffs.

Still, I don't know why anyone would think that a punter as lousy as Kapinos would be able to directionally kick. Who knows, maybe suckitude in hangtime and distance make you better at kicking on an angle, but I doubt it.

This is my theory. If your hangtime sucks and your distance sucks, can you please learn to kick the ball on an angle so it hits out of bounds after it's been in the air, say, 38 - 40 yards?

ST coaches hate punting the ball out of bounds. They feel the different trajectory is more prone to blocked kicks. They also all live in deadly fear of shanks. They (mistakenly IMHO) think a kick angled OB would be worse if you shank it. I think any shank is gonna suck, so why not try it from time to time?

This brings us to Stock and his illegitimate son, Slocum. It's obvious by now, Slocum didn't learn a lot at the feet of his master. We fired Stock's ass, why did we figure his asst was gonna be a world beater?

Stock was a total fool to cut Ryan so close to the start of the season. He should have scared the shit out of Ryan and got him kicking 'em the way he wanted. That, and he should have hired a kicking tutor to make sure he stayed with a two step punt. Ryan would revert to his old CFL 3 steppers and it drove Stock nuts. That's fine, but you don't run off a leg like his, you refine it.

Our cover guys are out of their lanes all the time and don't seem to have that 'ol kamikazee spirit you need to run cover. Bush got hit with a punt in the back last week, I think. That's at least half a dozen of those deals since he's been here. That's a guy who ain't too bright and isn't scared of losing his job. He should be.

[Rastak]

The Packers have been attempting the 'coffin corner' of sorts on kickoffs.

Still, I don't know why anyone would think that a punter as lousy as Kapinos would be able to directionally kick. Who knows, maybe suckitude in hangtime and distance make you better at kicking on an angle, but I doubt it.

This is my theory. If your hangtime sucks and your distance sucks, can you please learn to kick the ball on an angle so it hits out of bounds after it's been in the air, say, 38 - 40 yards?

ST coaches hate punting the ball out of bounds. They feel the different trajectory is more prone to blocked kicks. They also all live in deadly fear of shanks. They (mistakenly IMHO) think a kick angled OB would be worse if you shank it. I think any shank is gonna suck, so why not try it from time to time?

This brings us to Stock and his illegitimate son, Slocum. It's obvious by now, Slocum didn't learn a lot at the feet of his master. We fired Stock's ass, why did we figure his asst was gonna be a world beater?

Stock was a total fool to cut Ryan so close to the start of the season. He should have scared the shit out of Ryan and got him kicking 'em the way he wanted. That, and he should have hired a kicking tutor to make sure he stayed with a two step punt. Ryan would revert to his old CFL 3 steppers and it drove Stock nuts. That's fine, but you don't run off a leg like his, you refine it.

Our cover guys are out of their lanes all the time and don't seem to have that 'ol kamikazee spirit you need to run cover. Bush got hit with a punt in the back last week, I think. That's at least half a dozen of those deals since he's been here. That's a guy who ain't too bright and isn't scared of losing his job. He should be.

Greets KY.

Wanted to mention a couple of things on your two points bolded above.

1) Vikes did sort of the same thing. Let the top guy go who really sucked and promoted an assistant under him. They currently rank (per football outsiders) Number 1. So that argument has to be a case by case basis.

2) TT makes all the roster decisions. I admit I don't know for sure how it works but my guess would be TT and McCarthy make the decisions with TT having the final call. The Special Teams coordinator would plead his case to the HC. I could be off on this and perhaps each org is different.

[KYPack]

Hey Rasta.

Yeah, maybe Slocum could have been a world beater, but I think a whole new regime would have been the better move. No biggie, but there are always a few ST geeks out there. Slocum had never been a coordinator and the job is too big for him, I'd say.

There is no doubt in my mind that Stock got Ryan cut. Ryan was the kind of punter that give ST coaches fits. He was always trying to hit a boomer and those kickers scare guys like Stock. Stock knew of Frost and made the pitch to get the "control" kicker and lose the big leg Canuck. There were rumors to that effect at the time and Stock's "retirement" at seasons end confirms that deal.

Sure, things were done thru the chain of command, but Ryan would still be here if he had Stock's support. He didn't and was cut.

I think HC's should insist that the ST staff include a punting and PK tutor. Those guys are available for a song, but they can correct swing and step flaws just like golf tutors do for guys on the pro tour. Somebody like that could have straightened Ryan out very quickly

[Bossman641]

Hey Rasta.

Yeah, maybe Slocum could have been a world beater, but I think a whole new regime would have been the better move. No biggie, but there are always a few ST geeks out there. Slocum had never been a coordinator and the job is too big for him, I'd say.

There is no doubt in my mind that Stock got Ryan cut. Ryan was the kind of punter that give ST coaches fits. He was always trying to hit a boomer and those kickers scare guys like Stock. Stock knew of Frost and made the pitch to get the "control" kicker and lose the big leg Canuck. There were rumors to that effect at the time and Stock's "retirement" at seasons end confirms that deal.

Sure, things were done thru the chain of command, but Ryan would still be here if he had Stock's support. He didn't and was cut.

I think HC's should insist that the ST staff include a punting and PK tutor. Those guys are available for a song, but they can correct swing and step flaws just like golf tutors do for guys on the pro tour. Somebody like that could have straightened Ryan out very quickly

I agree with you. Didn't Ryan consult an outside coach at one time, possibly during the offseason? I feel like this happened and Stock was pissed about it.

[ND72]

I am waiting for the day after our season is done for Slocum to be fired.

[Fred's Slacks]

The poor special teams play IMO is the reason we are only a playoff hopeful instead of a SuperBowl favorite. The O and D are both playing well enough to beat anyone but they have to keep making up for the horrific special teams. Is it any suprise that our most impressive win this year (Dallas) also happened to be our best special teams game? If we could get that type of play consistently, we'll win alot of games. Funny thing is they don't have to be good, they just can't suck like they have.

[bobblehead]

The Packers have been attempting the 'coffin corner' of sorts on kickoffs.

Still, I don't know why anyone would think that a punter as lousy as Kapinos would be able to directionally kick. Who knows, maybe suckitude in hangtime and distance make you better at kicking on an angle, but I doubt it.

We aren't just referring to Kampinos, but the league in general has gone away from it...I think there are 3 guys in the league who are respected for the coffin corner right now.

[Zool]

The poor special teams play IMO is the reason we are only a playoff hopeful instead of a SuperBowl favorite. The O and D are both playing well enough to beat anyone but they have to keep making up for the horrific special teams. Is it any suprise that our most impressive win this year (Dallas) also happened to be our best special teams game? If we could get that type of play consistently, we'll win alot of games. Funny thing is they don't have to be good, they just can't suck like they have.

This!

Getting mediocre kick and punt coverage would do wonders for the team. Also Kapinos has to go. Low, short line drives a couple times per game shouldn't be acceptable. It's probably not "gonna get fixed" at this point.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

If the fault is Slocums, please explain the career of Bobby April.

[MichiganPackerFan]

GET BJ SANDER!!!






what, still too soon?

[KYPack]

If the fault is Slocums, please explain the career of Bobby April.

He's been ST coach of the year twice and coached ST for 3 NFL teams and has a ton of experience.

If MM would hire him, we could blame some other factor for shitty ST play?

[BallHawk]

It's kinda funny that one of TT's biggest blemishes as GM is cutting a punter.