Ref's screwing us less

[packerbacker1234]

ALl that matters to me is what happened in OT. Forget the rest, we were lucky to even be there.


OT

1. Helmet to Helmet hit on Rodgers, no call.
2. Facemask on Rodgers, play that he fumbled
3. Not at least a review to see if A. His arm was moving forward (it was so close, no way to tell with the naked eye), or B. if it qualifies as teh tuck rule.

Want proof of tuck rule?

"The tuck rule is an exception to this rule. It applies if the quarterback brings his arm forward in a passing motion, but then changes his mind and tries to keep hold of the football rather than making a pass. In this situation, if the quarterback loses the ball while stopping his passing motion or bringing the ball back to his body, it is still considered a forward pass (and thus an incomplete pass if the ball hits the ground)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuck_rule

[SkinBasket]

ALl that matters to me is what happened in OT. Forget the rest, we were lucky to even be there.


OT

1. Helmet to Helmet hit on Rodgers, no call.
2. Facemask on Rodgers, play that he fumbled
3. Not at least a review to see if A. His arm was moving forward (it was so close, no way to tell with the naked eye), or B. if it qualifies as teh tuck rule.

Want proof of tuck rule?

"The tuck rule is an exception to this rule. It applies if the quarterback brings his arm forward in a passing motion, but then changes his mind and tries to keep hold of the football rather than making a pass. In this situation, if the quarterback loses the ball while stopping his passing motion or bringing the ball back to his body, it is still considered a forward pass (and thus an incomplete pass if the ball hits the ground)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuck_rule

That would be awesome if the ball had ever hit the ground...

[packerbacker1234]

ALl that matters to me is what happened in OT. Forget the rest, we were lucky to even be there.


OT

1. Helmet to Helmet hit on Rodgers, no call.
2. Facemask on Rodgers, play that he fumbled
3. Not at least a review to see if A. His arm was moving forward (it was so close, no way to tell with the naked eye), or B. if it qualifies as teh tuck rule.

Want proof of tuck rule?

"The tuck rule is an exception to this rule. It applies if the quarterback brings his arm forward in a passing motion, but then changes his mind and tries to keep hold of the football rather than making a pass. In this situation, if the quarterback loses the ball while stopping his passing motion or bringing the ball back to his body, it is still considered a forward pass (and thus an incomplete pass if the ball hits the ground)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuck_rule

That would be awesome if the ball had ever hit the ground...

Official ruling was a fumble, and that is the final stat at NFL.com. Worst case, it should of been reviewed. If it's ruled a fumble, and upstairs reviews it. It could also be incurred that before the pass occured, rodgers was hit in teh helmet, etc. Many ways to look at that review to make sure it was legal. Facemask, int or fumble, was rodgers illegally touched before the "int/fumble", etc.

If it was Peyton Manning, it would of most likely been reviewed and deemed his helmet was hit before the pass, meaning hte penalty overrides the pick.

[ThunderDan]

ALl that matters to me is what happened in OT. Forget the rest, we were lucky to even be there.


OT

1. Helmet to Helmet hit on Rodgers, no call.
2. Facemask on Rodgers, play that he fumbled
3. Not at least a review to see if A. His arm was moving forward (it was so close, no way to tell with the naked eye), or B. if it qualifies as teh tuck rule.

Want proof of tuck rule?

"The tuck rule is an exception to this rule. It applies if the quarterback brings his arm forward in a passing motion, but then changes his mind and tries to keep hold of the football rather than making a pass. In this situation, if the quarterback loses the ball while stopping his passing motion or bringing the ball back to his body, it is still considered a forward pass (and thus an incomplete pass if the ball hits the ground)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuck_rule

That would be awesome if the ball had ever hit the ground...

Official ruling was a fumble, and that is the final stat at NFL.com. Worst case, it should of been reviewed. If it's ruled a fumble, and upstairs reviews it. It could also be incurred that before the pass occured, rodgers was hit in teh helmet, etc. Many ways to look at that review to make sure it was legal. Facemask, int or fumble, was rodgers illegally touched before the "int/fumble", etc.

If it was Peyton Manning, it would of most likely been reviewed and deemed his helmet was hit before the pass, meaning hte penalty overrides the pick.

I don't believe they can call helmet to helmet or facemask on review.

[mngolf19]

And as was said, it never hit the ground. Should have been called an INT so no tuck rule.

[MichiganPackerFan]

1. Offensive PI on Fitzgerald when he walked into the endzone. Not called.
2. Offensive PI on Fitzgerald in the endzone on his one handed catch. Not called.
3. Roughing the passer on the second to last play, defensive player leading with helmet. Not called.
4. Defensive facemask on the last play of the game. Not called.

Okay, that first one might be wishful thinking--maybe--but I think the others were "write to the NFL and get an official apology" worthy. Which cost GB the game. (I'm upset with the loss, give me space.)

Just wanted to put that in bold.

I don't get as pissed on a missed call as I do when they have called the exact same thing one way and don't call it the other. Warner was protected by the officials all day. Rodgers was at their mercy. There was a early 15 yd penalty for a shove in the back, but when it happened the other way only a couple plays later, nothing. I have a theory that a team can only overcome a limited net number of a combination of major errors committed and bad calls by the officials. Maybe that number is -5. (-2 turnovers, -3 major bad calls/no calls) This is the playoffs, and the officials have no business changing or affecting the outcome of the game. The NFL should have a policy of thoroughly reviewing their work and terminating/ suspending officials rather than thoroughly defending and making excuses for them.

Tuck rule didn't apply, but if Warner had taken a helmet to helmet like that, there would have been an immediate flag. And even if they didn't see it, there would have been a late flag.

[Patler]

And as was said, it never hit the ground. Should have been called an INT so no tuck rule.

Apparently, the MJS contacted the NFL for clarification, and received a response, stating:

- If the ball had hit the ground, it could have been reviewed re:tuck rule.
- Since it didn't hit the ground, tuck rule is irrelevant.
- Fumble is the proper ruling in this situation, not interception.

[Smidgeon]

The thing that gets me after reading the media's explanation of the last facemask is that they're all looking at the rulebook in the section marked "Facemask" instead of the section called "Roughing the QB". They say that since Adams didn't move the facemask, it wasn't a facemask. But--correct me if I'm wrong--hands to the face of the QB is roughing the passer. That part nobody's talking about.

[sharpe1027]

And as was said, it never hit the ground. Should have been called an INT so no tuck rule.

Apparently, the MJS contacted the NFL for clarification, and received a response, stating:

- If the ball had hit the ground, it could have been reviewed re:tuck rule.
- Since it didn't hit the ground, tuck rule is irrelevant.
- Fumble is the proper ruling in this situation, not interception.

Wah? So it's not a forward pass until it hits the ground? Must be from the same hidden rulebook that negated Jennings TD earlier in the year.

[Patler]

And as was said, it never hit the ground. Should have been called an INT so no tuck rule.

Apparently, the MJS contacted the NFL for clarification, and received a response, stating:

- If the ball had hit the ground, it could have been reviewed re:tuck rule.
- Since it didn't hit the ground, tuck rule is irrelevant.
- Fumble is the proper ruling in this situation, not interception.

Wah? So it's not a forward pass until it hits the ground? Must be from the same hidden rulebook that negated Jennings TD earlier in the year.

Sort of, but not really.
The tuck rule is to distinguish between a fumble and an incomplete forward pass resulting from the QB bringing the ball back to his body. If the ball does not hit the ground, it can't be incomplete, therefore the tuck rule never enters into it.

They seem to be saying that in that situation, with the ball out of the QB's hands you assume fumble. Thereafter, if it hits the ground, you have to determine if his arm was moving forward to throw and the ball therefore an incomplete pass, or if the QB was pulling it down after an aborted throw (tuck rule) which is also incomplete. If the defensive player pulls it out of the QBs hand, or catches it in the air, the ball does not hit the ground, play continues and fumble rules.

You never really get to the question of distinguishing between a fumble and an interception.

[sharpe1027]

Sort of, but not really.
The tuck rule is to distinguish between a fumble and an incomplete forward pass resulting from the QB bringing the ball back to his body. If the ball does not hit the ground, it can't be incomplete, therefore the tuck rule never enters into it.

They seem to be saying that in that situation, with the ball out of the QB's hands you assume fumble. Thereafter, if it hits the ground, you have to determine if his arm was moving forward to throw and the ball therefore an incomplete pass, or if the QB was pulling it down after an aborted throw (tuck rule) which is also incomplete. If the defensive player pulls it out of the QBs hand, or catches it in the air, the ball does not hit the ground, play continues and fumble rules.

You never really get to the question of distinguishing between a fumble and an interception.

I understand their application, just not the justification. If it is a forward pass...it should be a forward pass. That seems pretty simple. My take is that the rule is so odd and contrary to common sense that they can't figure out how to properly explain or apply it.

[ThunderDan]

The thing that gets me after reading the media's explanation of the last facemask is that they're all looking at the rulebook in the section marked "Facemask" instead of the section called "Roughing the QB". They say that since Adams didn't move the facemask, it wasn't a facemask. But--correct me if I'm wrong--hands to the face of the QB is roughing the passer. That part nobody's talking about.

No it was a facemask period!!! Look on packers.com at their picture of the play. It is probably .25 seconds later and Arod's helmet is yanked all the way to his nose. He can't even see at that point. Didn't move the facemask my ass.

[Smidgeon]

The thing that gets me after reading the media's explanation of the last facemask is that they're all looking at the rulebook in the section marked "Facemask" instead of the section called "Roughing the QB". They say that since Adams didn't move the facemask, it wasn't a facemask. But--correct me if I'm wrong--hands to the face of the QB is roughing the passer. That part nobody's talking about.

No it was a facemask period!!! Look on packers.com at their picture of the play. It is probably .25 seconds later and Arod's helmet is yanked all the way to his nose. He can't even see at that point. Didn't move the facemask my ass.

I agree with you, but the point I was bringing up is even if Adams didn't move the facemask the mere fact that his hand was in Rodgers face on the helmet should have been a penalty based on the way the rules have been emphasized this season.

[ThunderDan]

The thing that gets me after reading the media's explanation of the last facemask is that they're all looking at the rulebook in the section marked "Facemask" instead of the section called "Roughing the QB". They say that since Adams didn't move the facemask, it wasn't a facemask. But--correct me if I'm wrong--hands to the face of the QB is roughing the passer. That part nobody's talking about.

No it was a facemask period!!! Look on packers.com at their picture of the play. It is probably .25 seconds later and Arod's helmet is yanked all the way to his nose. He can't even see at that point. Didn't move the facemask my ass.

I agree with you, but the point I was bringing up is even if Adams didn't move the facemask the mere fact that his hand was in Rodgers face on the helmet should have been a penalty based on the way the rules have been emphasized this season.

Sorry, I think that came across wrong. I was really yelling at the "talking heads" saying the facemask wasn't moved not you.

[Smidgeon]

The thing that gets me after reading the media's explanation of the last facemask is that they're all looking at the rulebook in the section marked "Facemask" instead of the section called "Roughing the QB". They say that since Adams didn't move the facemask, it wasn't a facemask. But--correct me if I'm wrong--hands to the face of the QB is roughing the passer. That part nobody's talking about.

No it was a facemask period!!! Look on packers.com at their picture of the play. It is probably .25 seconds later and Arod's helmet is yanked all the way to his nose. He can't even see at that point. Didn't move the facemask my ass.

I agree with you, but the point I was bringing up is even if Adams didn't move the facemask the mere fact that his hand was in Rodgers face on the helmet should have been a penalty based on the way the rules have been emphasized this season.

Sorry, I think that came across wrong. I was really yelling at the "talking heads" saying the facemask wasn't moved not you.

I got that. I was just re-emphasizing my particular point.