Packer Pro Bowl Snubs

[Gunakor]

Grant is interesting to consider for the Pro Bowl
OK here is an exercise

Playing for one year

List every NFC RB you'd take over Ryan Grant. I'll do this later but my wife is nicely telling me we have to leave for the relatives.

There are probably two RB's in Carolina I'd take over Ryan Grant

But there aren't two RB's in Carolina with the stats to back it up.

In a perfect world the Pro Bowl would honor those players who were most productive in that single season. If you're top 3 or 4 in your conference at your position you go, even if that means a more recognizable name with lesser production has to stay home.

It shouldn't be a vote in the first place because it shouldn't be a popularity contest. People vote for names. I'd rather people vote for numbers. In this world Bretsky is right, there's probably over a half dozen backs I'd rather see in the Pro Bowl. More entertaining and all. But that doesn't mean there's a half dozen more deserving. And there ain't 2 backs in Carolina who have each had a better 2009 season than Grant.

[DonHutson]

As far as the stat comparison between Grant and Williams it should be noted that Williams shares the backfield with Jonathon Stewart, a pretty good back in his own right. Grant hasn't had to share much this year.

There were also lots of injuries in the NFC this year to guys like Westbrook, Portis, and Gore. The reality is that Grant is a solid workhorse type, but not special at all.

Certainly you can make a good case that he should be in this year, but in a typical year I don't consider him a Pro Bowl caliber back.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Grant is ok in my book, but 1200+ in a 16 game season is not overly impressive these days(if healthy and the main rb for the team).
That's 75yds/game and at 20+ carries about 3.75 ypc.
What should you expect from your main rb in a full season? I would say he is doing is job well and staying off the trainers table(always a plus)

Grant doesn't have 20+ carries/game this year and his avg is a healthy 4.4 ypc. So he's better than you are giving him credit for.

Had he been getting at least 20 carries/game at his current avg, he would have 1320 yds this season at this point. Would he then be better than ok?

[Scott Campbell]

I don't really care about the Pro Bowl, or the popularity contest preceding it.

[Bossman641]

Grant is interesting to consider for the Pro Bowl
OK here is an exercise

Playing for one year

List every NFC RB you'd take over Ryan Grant. I'll do this later but my wife is nicely telling me we have to leave for the relatives.

There are probably two RB's in Carolina I'd take over Ryan Grant

I'd take

AD
Jonathan Stewart
DeAngelo Williams
Steven Jackson
Frank Gore
Michael Turner

Portis misses the cut due to his age and workload he has carried
Barber just misses, same with Felix Jones
Forte is too unproven to me
I'd take Westbrook but his current year bumps him off
Pierre Thomas is on the cutline but I stick with Grant for now

The thing that really makes Grant look bad is his receiving ability

[ICU81MI]

Grant is interesting to consider for the Pro Bowl
OK here is an exercise

Playing for one year

List every NFC RB you'd take over Ryan Grant. I'll do this later but my wife is nicely telling me we have to leave for the relatives.

There are probably two RB's in Carolina I'd take over Ryan Grant

Off the top of my head:

1. Chris Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Maurice Jones-Drew
4. Stephen Jackson
5. Ray Rice
6. Deangelo Williams
7. Ronnie Brown
8. Jonathan Stewart
9. Frank Gore
10. Marion Barber
11. Cedric Benson
12. Steve Slaton
13. Michael Turner

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Grant is interesting to consider for the Pro Bowl
OK here is an exercise

Playing for one year

List every NFC RB you'd take over Ryan Grant. I'll do this later but my wife is nicely telling me we have to leave for the relatives.

There are probably two RB's in Carolina I'd take over Ryan Grant

Off the top of my head:

1. Chris Johnson
2. Adrian Peterson
3. Maurice Jones-Drew
4. Stephen Jackson
5. Ray Rice
6. Deangelo Williams
7. Ronnie Brown
8. Jonathan Stewart
9. Frank Gore
10. Marion Barber
11. Cedric Benson
12. Steve Slaton
13. Michael Turner

He asked NFC, not NFL.

Since an RB is also about receiving, gotta put several guys ahead of Grant. Hence putting Forte, gore, jackson ahead of grant. 50 receptions counts for something.

In no particular order:

1. AD or Chester Taylor (can ANYONE tell ty taylor wouldn't be the bomb in greenbay with our offense? Get him TT!)
2. Stephen Jackson.
3. Gore
4. Turner
5. Deangelo
6. Forte (ty is going with the thought that it isn't forte..it is a combo of cutler, bad offense, and terrible line)
7. Beanie Wells (going to be a monster)
8. Stewart
9. Westbrook

Guys that i might consider before Grant
1. Jacobs
2. McCoy (iggles guy)
3. Pierre Thomas
4. Ahmad Bradshaw
5. Portis (gotta see how much he has left physically and mentally)
6. Barber

Guys that Ty wonders about

1. Kevin Smith
2. Felix Jones
3. Cadillac and Ward
4. Justin Forsett. Can do it all.

[DonHutson]

I don't really care about the Pro Bowl, or the popularity contest preceding it.

I don't care about the game, and I would gladly do without Minnesota ballot box stuffing... I mean fan voting.

While the method of putting the team together could be tweaked, it's still an honor to be named.

[GBRulz]

It sure would be nice to see Rodgers, Woodson and Collins NOT play in the Pro Bowl this year

[SnakeLH2006]

To make this clear....CMatty could've went to the Pro Bowl over Orakpo...That was just too close to call. Grant is a good back (the best I'll EVER say about him there) but is not elite or near the top backs.

Is anyone aware that he just got his massive bonuses for getting 1250 yards which he just skated by to get? I noticed Grant only ran hard as all hell in the past 3 weeks of this season (coincidence....hell no). He ran nuts out last week in a meaningless game to end the season and was SUPER GIDDY when I noticed he got his 1250th (barely yard...after the run and on the sideline...unbelievably giddy, but was aware of his yards when I saw it)...he was only running hard (the hardest I EVER seen him run) for his cash the past few weeks. He's ok, but really has some Antonio Freeman syndromitis. He got paid. Doubt he runs that hard next season and nearing 30....he's old. He ran his ass off to get those late season yards to get his millions (he made several millions with the 1250 plateau he barely reached). Makes me sick.

At least Matthews is a bone-a-fied star to boot. That kid is pure hustle EVERY play....like Bretsky said....he looks the part of elite player and will get better. Grant....hell no...

Here's the question....if you had to take one to stay and one to leave....how many would pick Grant over Matthews as a guy we need? I doubt from 1000's of Rats that ANYONE would pick Grant. I still wanna dump him. He's replaceable. Matthews has exhibited elite talent. We love that guy if you watch the games...Grant is a stat stuffer. Nuff said.

[Patler]

To make this clear....CMatty could've went to the Pro Bowl over Orakpo...That was just too close to call. Grant is a good back (the best I'll EVER say about him there) but is not elite or near the top backs.

Is anyone aware that he just got his massive bonuses for getting 1250 yards which he just skated by to get? I noticed Grant only ran hard as all hell in the past 3 weeks of this season (coincidence....hell no). He ran nuts out last week in a meaningless game to end the season and was SUPER GIDDY when I noticed he got his 1250th (barely yard...after the run and on the sideline...unbelievably giddy, but was aware of his yards when I saw it)...he was only running hard (the hardest I EVER seen him run) for his cash the past few weeks. He's ok, but really has some Antonio Freeman syndromitis. He got paid. Doubt he runs that hard next season and nearing 30....he's old. He ran his ass off to get those late season yards to get his millions (he made several millions with the 1250 plateau he barely reached). Makes me sick.

At least Matthews is a bone-a-fied star to boot. That kid is pure hustle EVERY play....like Bretsky said....he looks the part of elite player and will get better. Grant....hell no...

Here's the question....if you had to take one to stay and one to leave....how many would pick Grant over Matthews as a guy we need? I doubt from 1000's of Rats that ANYONE would pick Grant. I still wanna dump him. He's replaceable. Matthews has exhibited elite talent. We love that guy if you watch the games...Grant is a stat stuffer. Nuff said.

Well, last year Grant barely missed the same bonus level, and would have had it but for the replay challenge that turned his 80 yard TD run into a 21 yard gain in the last game of the year. One year he barely missed it, one year he barely got it. When you have bonuses that kick in every 250 yards like Grant has (1000, 1250, and 1500 yards), it seems likely that he will either barely get one or barely miss one.

So now the past few weeks he was running hard for his bonus? Two months ago people on here wrote that Grant was running harder than they had ever seen, and credited it to the example set by the recently signed Ahman Green. In my opinion, Grant is and has been running as he always has, but for some reason many do not want to give him credit for what he does. There seems to be a need by some to lessen it instead of just recognizing it for what it is; good, solid but unspectacular play that apparently meets team expectations because he falls right in the middle of the yardage bonus scale they set for him.

[SnakeLH2006]

To make this clear....CMatty could've went to the Pro Bowl over Orakpo...That was just too close to call. Grant is a good back (the best I'll EVER say about him there) but is not elite or near the top backs.

Is anyone aware that he just got his massive bonuses for getting 1250 yards which he just skated by to get? I noticed Grant only ran hard as all hell in the past 3 weeks of this season (coincidence....hell no). He ran nuts out last week in a meaningless game to end the season and was SUPER GIDDY when I noticed he got his 1250th (barely yard...after the run and on the sideline...unbelievably giddy, but was aware of his yards when I saw it)...he was only running hard (the hardest I EVER seen him run) for his cash the past few weeks. He's ok, but really has some Antonio Freeman syndromitis. He got paid. Doubt he runs that hard next season and nearing 30....he's old. He ran his ass off to get those late season yards to get his millions (he made several millions with the 1250 plateau he barely reached). Makes me sick.

At least Matthews is a bone-a-fied star to boot. That kid is pure hustle EVERY play....like Bretsky said....he looks the part of elite player and will get better. Grant....hell no...

Here's the question....if you had to take one to stay and one to leave....how many would pick Grant over Matthews as a guy we need? I doubt from 1000's of Rats that ANYONE would pick Grant. I still wanna dump him. He's replaceable. Matthews has exhibited elite talent. We love that guy if you watch the games...Grant is a stat stuffer. Nuff said.

Well, last year Grant barely missed the same bonus level, and would have had it but for the replay challenge that turned his 80 yard TD run into a 21 yard gain in the last game of the year. One year he barely missed it, one year he barely got it. When you have bonuses that kick in every 250 yards like Grant has (1000, 1250, and 1500 yards), it seems likely that he will either barely get one or barely miss one.

So now the past few weeks he was running hard for his bonus? Two months ago people on here wrote that Grant was running harder than they had ever seen, and credited it to the example set by the recently signed Ahman Green. In my opinion, Grant is and has been running as he always has, but for some reason many do not want to give him credit for what he does. There seems to be a need by some to lessen it instead of just recognizing it for what it is; good, solid but unspectacular play that apparently meets team expectations because he falls right in the middle of the yardage bonus scale they set for him.

Yep.

I'm sure you and most Rats have seen every game. IMO, he's run harder (trying hard to outdo his ability and run through tackles in the past month like I haven't seen him do since his 26 year old "rookie" year in 2007( where he tried and DID establish himself.

I'm not a Grant "hater", but really would like to upgrade to a 21-22 year old back with some burst. He did surprise me the past few weeks, but his run burst sure took off when he knew his bonus came about, and I suspected it, but was damn sure looking at him after a 2 yard gain, and and on the sidelines looking giddier than a school girl on free sparkler-tassles give-a-way day at an ice-skating spectacular after his 1250th yard.

HUGE GIVEAWAY. He really ran his nuts off hard late in the year, cuz those were worth SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS. I stand by that. I know you are a Grant fan, Patler, and won't diss that, but diss the fact he ran (think you saw the same games...) harder than he EVER DID since early 2007 when he got his chance. Grant is just a tease. Antonio Freeman all over again. Guy ran really hard to get paid. Most probably weren't aware or weren't watching, but Snake WAS aware of his 1250 march to "paydom"....He's old and replaceable.....so I don't care...just draft someone to replace him in the next year or so....either way, it won't matter cuz he's an old RB.

[Patler]

I have been watching Grant ever since he was at Notre Dame. I have seen almost every carry he has ever had in college and the pros. I was aware of his bonus levels last year. I have been aware of his bonus levels this year.

What I have seen from Grant the last 3 games, the last 8 games, whatever, is what I have always seen from him. He has run that way all the way back to his days at ND. He has always run hard, not as punishing a runner as Green in his heyday and not with the same kind of balance, but I have never questioned his effort. So he was happy to have achieved the bonus level, so what? More important in my mind is that he never complained about barely missing it last year. He accepted it as just something that was.

With running backs, I think you always have to be looking for a replacement. They don't last at the top of their game for very long to begin with, and are prone to missing years here and there due to injuries. It is the rare back that can maintain a high level of performance for more than 5 years or so. The one thing Grant has going for him is that he has not yet logged a lot of carries for his age. Many seem to hit a wall of sorts based on punishment from carries as much as age itself.

[SnakeLH2006]

I have been watching Grant ever since he was at Notre Dame. I have seen almost every carry he has ever had in college and the pros. I was aware of his bonus levels last year. I have been aware of his bonus levels this year.

What I have seen from Grant the last 3 games, the last 8 games, whatever, is what I have always seen from him. He has run that way all the way back to his days at ND. He has always run hard, not as punishing a runner as Green in his heyday and not with the same kind of balance, but I have never questioned his effort. So he was happy to have achieved the bonus level, so what? More important in my mind is that he never complained about barely missing it last year. He accepted it as just something that was.

With running backs, I think you always have to be looking for a replacement. They don't last at the top of their game for very long to begin with, and are prone to missing years here and there due to injuries. It is the rare back that can maintain a high level of performance for more than 5 years or so. The one thing Grant has going for him is that he has not yet logged a lot of carries for his age. Many seem to hit a wall of sorts based on punishment from carries as much as age itself.

Just ran to the gas station wasted between these posts to get Snake some cigs..but yeah, I ackowledge Grant runs hard and respect you've seen him do so, thus, my acknowledgement to your Grant knowledge earlier....but I've seen EVERY game (as I'm sure you've too) since Grant became a Packer, and have SEEN a new burst lately since he became aware of his closeness to 1250. That's all. He runs hard, rarely with any type of vision (where's Madtown when I need him?), but lately he's displayed the same no vision (those same games lately he's run into the back of his OL) but more killer high-steps to get the yards.....I've seen it, my buddies I watch the games with have seen it...He's an ok back, but really, he's run hard as fuck in the last 3 games of the year (it means millions)....that's what I saw. Either way, he's ok, but I want a 21-22 year old young back instead of his 28-29 year old self in a year. I respect your love of Grant, Patler, but he's already old, and want fresh legs soon...that's all.

Grant is only going downhill from here...and there's about 30+ backs in the NFL I'd rather have than Ryan Grant right now (and probably 12 in the 2010 draft to boot). Who cares? He's ok. I wasn't disputing he's ok, but I want an upgrade.

As far as Matthews....I wouldn't trade that guy for much else. He's super young (22) and has demonstrated elite skills (Grant has none). Matthews could with Raji (who has flashed young 22 year old skills too) be the future of our D. Both guys have fluke skills that most don't have (bar any age) in the NFL, but have to put it together. Grant has none of those skills. He's dependable and old, and not elite or Pro-Bowl worthy.

Matthews is a stud. Grant is not.

[Patler]

Just ran to the gas station wasted between these posts to get Snake some cigs..but yeah, I ackowledge Grant runs hard and respect you've seen him do so, thus, my acknowledgement to your Grant knowledge earlier....but I've seen EVERY game (as I'm sure you've too) since Grant became a Packer, and have SEEN a new burst lately since he became aware of his closeness to 1250. That's all. He runs hard, rarely with any type of vision (where's Madtown when I need him?), but lately he's displayed the same no vision (those same games lately he's run into the back of his OL) but more killer high-steps to get the yards.....I've seen it, my buddies I watch the games with have seen it...He's an ok back, but really, he's run hard as fuck in the last 3 games of the year (it means millions)....that's what I saw. Either way, he's ok, but I want a 21-22 year old young back instead of his 28-29 year old self in a year. I respect your love of Grant, Patler, but he's already old, and want fresh legs soon...that's all.

Grant is only going downhill from here...and there's about 30+ backs in the NFL I'd rather have than Ryan Grant right now (and probably 12 in the 2010 draft to boot). Who cares? He's ok. I wasn't disputing he's ok, but I want an upgrade.

As far as Matthews....I wouldn't trade that guy for much else. He's super young (22) and has demonstrated elite skills (Grant has none). Matthews could with Raji (who has flashed young 22 year old skills too) be the future of our D. Both guys have fluke skills that most don't have (bar any age) in the NFL, but have to put it together. Grant has none of those skills. He's dependable and old, and not elite or Pro-Bowl worthy.

Matthews is a stud. Grant is not.

I don't "love" Grant at all. I just try to recognize him for the type of player he is. Since I know him personally not at all, I wouldn't ever assume to know his motivations. I just look at what I have seen having watched him in EVERY (I can use caps too! ) game as a Packer and probably EVERY (caps button still works!) at ND.

I never made any comparison at all between Grant and Mathews. Mathews appears to have a much higher potential at his position, but before classifying him as a stud I want to see how he handles his success. I have no reason to think that he will not handle it well, but again, since I know him not at all, I will wait to see before classifying him.