Atari Bigby

[vince]

Re: Atari Bigby

Is playing fantastic. Interceptions, big hits, run stuffing, not giving up big plays. . . What more can you ask for from a SS?


Very underrated player. I remember Vince saying he'd love to lock Bigby up, then after he was injured, retailguy just tore him apart with sarcasm and insults. The way Bigby is playing, I'd say Vince deserves some credit for taking the brunt and really not being wrong at all.

I also believe skinbasket owes Bigby an apology

Stirring shit up again? If you recall, I disagreed with Vince's point to "lock up Bigby" based on 4 games performance. He was "exclusive rights" at the time and had no choice but to play for whatever GB offered him. It was not the time for an extension then, regardless of how he played. It was a moment of "fan exhuberance" for Vince (that's part of being a fan), and I did chide him heavily on it. He didn't appreciate it, and that's ok. Later, when I realized how offended he was, I did apologize for hurting his feelings. I also think that the remainder of that season exposed flaws in Bigby's game, flaws which remain today.

Bigby has had big issues related to coverage responsibilities. I once used the term that "Bigby couldn't cover with a blanket", and though that has improved, he is still not good in coverage. He can hit like a mack truck, but that's clearly his best trait. He is mediocre at best regarding coverage, and a few interceptions clustered together don't change my mind about his abilities. Should we resign him? Sure. Should we break the bank? No. When someone better comes along, we should draft them and replace him.

Stop stirring the pot. You aren't very good at it. Just enjoy the JSO fluff pieces....

I like Bigby as a player. He lacks top-end speed and is shorter than the ideal, but he's a good football player with a good football IQ within the team structure, as evidenced by the play of this defense in his presence and absence. He's returned to form after suffering through a nagging high-ankle sprain last year. He's usully in proper position, has others in proper position, usually takes proper angles (not that he hasn't gotten beat before), rarely drops interception opportunities and brings the lumber with the best of them - and I appreciate that in a strong safety. I think that the intimidation factor when receivers come into the middle of the field is important to have in a defense. I never once said he was all-pro, but he's not a weakness out there.

And my previous statements about signing Bigby to more than a one-year contract stem from the exact OPPOSITE motivation you are (mis)characterizing Retail. By signing him earlier, the Packers would likely end up SAVING money over the term of the contract - assuming you end up being correct in who you sign - versus going a year at a time and then having a 4th-year veteran solid starter ready to hit unrestricted free agency. Bigby was a unique case since he didn't have multi-year rookie contract as a solid 3rd or 4th round draft pick, which is about how he played in '07.

I never advocated for signing him to a "big contract" as you pose here in your strawman arguments above - which is the same strawman argument you made back then. That's what I made note of in my retort to your mischaracterizations then and now. Your perception that my "feelings were hurt" is woefully inaccurate - more strawman.

And I don't read every post or thread here, but I never received any apology for those mischaracterizations, so unless you can cite where you did that (in which I will apologize to you for this), that's another bald-faced lie. But hey, no harm done from my perspective. Just stop misrepresenting others' positions, insulting people's intelligence and lieing to people's faces, and it will all be good.

I still like Bigby - not that he's not replaceable by someone better. But who isn't?

[bobblehead]

Never that high on Bigby. Still not high on Bigby. He's played well the last two games. I can't name the other three safeties in our division for him to compete against but since I have no idea who they are it would not surprise me if Bibgy was the top one.

How many safeties not named reed or polamolu can you name?? (in the entire NFL without using google.)

I'm not sure how much "shit" JH stirred up, I don't mind a spirited debate about bigby and a little I told you so for those who were right. For my part I think Bigby and Grant are/were similar. Difference is that some wanted to lock Grant up for big money, but don't want to pay Bigby. For my taste, when Grant was making a big deal outta contracts I woulda offered Bigby 5 years at $15 million and let Grant sit since he wanted much more than that.

[SkinBasket]

I don't mind a spirited debate about bigby and a little I told you so for those who were right.

Right about what though? Most people are simply pointing to the fact that the defense has played better since he came back from injury without linking the two. See the pirates vs. global temperature graph for just as conclusive of a finding. Our defensive line has improved against the run, and we have two rookie LBs applying pressure on a consistent basis. Bigby is benefiting from that, by being surrounded by talented players playing very well in a solid scheme, not the other way around. I would continue but I already covered this in the other fucking Bigby thread. Because we absolutely need two Bigby threads.

[packerbacker1234]

Our defense is completely different when he's not in there. Thats not a coincidence - he is that impactful on how this defense plays.

He almost has the same impact on our overall defense and Troy polomalu. Say what you want, but pitts D sucks without him, and as we have seen... our defense sucks without Bigby.

He needs to be locked up. He isn't a "stud", but what he is is a difference maker. Smart. Rarely makes mistakes. Does his job. Allows our defense to flourish.

Lock him up. While your at, Collins too.

[Smidgeon]

Our defense is completely different when he's not in there. Thats not a coincidence - he is that impactful on how this defense plays.

He almost has the same impact on our overall defense and Troy polomalu. Say what you want, but pitts D sucks without him, and as we have seen... our defense sucks without Bigby.

He needs to be locked up. He isn't a "stud", but what he is is a difference maker. Smart. Rarely makes mistakes. Does his job. Allows our defense to flourish.

Lock him up. While your at, Collins too.

No, Bigby isn't a difference maker. He simply doesn't make mistakes. Difference makers force the other team to make mistakes. Bigby just hasn't the same deficiencies as those behind him on the depth chart. Spit out the kool-aid.

[Scott Campbell]

He almost has the same impact on our overall defense and Troy polomalu.

[Fritz]

I don't mind a spirited debate about bigby and a little I told you so for those who were right.

Right about what though? Most people are simply pointing to the fact that the defense has played better since he came back from injury without linking the two. See the pirates vs. global temperature graph for just as conclusive of a finding. Our defensive line has improved against the run, and we have two rookie LBs applying pressure on a consistent basis. Bigby is benefiting from that, by being surrounded by talented players playing very well in a solid scheme, not the other way around. I would continue but I already covered this in the other fucking Bigby thread. Because we absolutely need two Bigby threads.

What? Is there some information out there linking pirates to global warming? Damn, I knew it was the pirates.

I like Bigby alright, think he's good enough for this Packer team given the talent around him, but I would like to see the Packers draft a couple of safeties to compete and provide some more athletic backup material than that Giordini (sp?) guy.

[RashanGary]

I think Bigby is an impact guy. He's great in run support (impact on several key downs). He's impact with big hits in the secondary. He's impact with interceptions.

He also doesn't have much negative impact (giving up big plays).

I also think he's a good guy to have in the lockerroom. Good attitude, loves to play. . . He's obviously benefited with the new zone scheme where he can play facing forward, downhill, rather than the match coverage where he was trailing a TE for large chunks of field with little pass rush to boot.



I'd put Bigby, Tramon, Barnett, Chillar, Jolly, Jenkins, Raji, Pickett all an about the same level. These are guys who make big plays just about every game and don't make a lot of mistakes. None are superstars, but all are really good players.

Matthews, Woodson, Collins are on a different level.

Top to bottom, the Packers jsut have talent. #2 defense is no mistake. 11-5 is no fluke. They're legit and Bigby fits right in. Mistake free, interception gathering, big hit laying, run stuffing play from our SS isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned.

[Freak Out]

He's a lover not a fighter.

[SkinBasket]

I don't mind a spirited debate about bigby and a little I told you so for those who were right.

Right about what though? Most people are simply pointing to the fact that the defense has played better since he came back from injury without linking the two. See the pirates vs. global temperature graph for just as conclusive of a finding. Our defensive line has improved against the run, and we have two rookie LBs applying pressure on a consistent basis. Bigby is benefiting from that, by being surrounded by talented players playing very well in a solid scheme, not the other way around. I would continue but I already covered this in the other fucking Bigby thread. Because we absolutely need two Bigby threads.

What? Is there some information out there linking pirates to global warming? Damn, I knew it was the pirates.

I like Bigby alright, think he's good enough for this Packer team given the talent around him, but I would like to see the Packers draft a couple of safeties to compete and provide some more athletic backup material than that Giordini (sp?) guy.

You are so out of touch with the real world...



Like you say, he's fine given the talent around him. But people polling hima s a pro-bowler are fucking nuts. Adjective, not verb.

[RashanGary]

I think he's a really good player, not a probowler, but honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if he made the probowl either.


We've had plenty of good players that haven't made the probowl. Tauscher, Jenkins, Barnett, and others. . . Just because Bigby isn't a probowler doesn't mean he's not a really good Packer. He obviously has to stay healthy, if not, he turns into a tease and a let down. If he stays healthy, I think he's a really good Packer.

If he were a really good Cowboy, maybe he makes the probowl, but being a really good Packer, probably he just goes under the radar.


Scouts like him a lot more than you do. Coaches and players think a lot more of him than you do too.

Normally skin, you pick out the lowliest of the low Packers and rip them apart. In this case, you picked a good player. I think you're wrong on Bigby.

[Bretsky]

I think Bigby is an impact guy. He's great in run support (impact on several key downs). He's impact with big hits in the secondary. He's impact with interceptions.

I'd put Bigby, Tramon, Barnett, Chillar, Jolly, Jenkins, Raji, Pickett all an about the same level. These are guys who make big plays just about every game and don't make a lot of mistakes. None are superstars, but all are really good players.

Matthews, Woodson, Collins are on a different level.

Top to bottom, the Packers jsut have talent. #2 defense is no mistake. 11-5 is no fluke. They're legit and Bigby fits right in. Mistake free, interception gathering, big hit laying, run stuffing play from our SS isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned.

IMO Bigby is a step down from any of the players youve mentioned above.

[RashanGary]

James Jones and Atari Bigby are two guys I like a lot that others don't really like. That's how it goes sometimes.

[Joemailman]

Bigby and Hawk don't get a lot of love from Packer fans, but I think they're kind of the glue that holds this defense together. You can't have 11 guys running around doing what Woodson and Matthews do. Some guys have to assume more of a support role. Bigby is one of those guys. Remember all the screwups in the secondary when Marquand Manuel was here? You don't see that with Bigby in there. He may some physical limitations, but he does a great job of making sure everyone is on the same page.

[SkinBasket]

I think some people have a very short memory when it comes to Bigby's mistakes and limitations. Again, he looks adequate now because he's benefiting from being surrounded by a top defense and as Joe points out - his role in that defense is one of support. That's great for him, and it's great he's capitalizing on those opportunities he's being afforded by that defense.

And JH, I don't pick the "lowliest" Packers to tear apart. I pick apart those who I feel should be high on the list to be replaced - regardless of how mythically popular they happen to be at the time. I think it's a bit silly and fanboyish to suggest Bigby is the reason for this defense's improvement and/or the team's wins and losses. It completely disregards the new staff, scheme, the incredibly increased effectiveness of the front seven throughout the season and suggests that somehow Bigby's presence in the defense is infinitely more important than Al Harris'.

Also, can someone link me to something that suggests that Bigby has an important role in aligning and adjusting the defense? people seem to be suggesting that's the case, but I don't recall reading that and I don't see it happening in-game.