Atari Bigby

[hoosier]

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about retarded and unwarranted negative fan reaction to a player who has been playing well enough to get a game ball for three consecutive weeks. You seem to think I was saying something else completely.

Does someone keep stats on gameballs now? Because obviously it's the best measure of how talented a player is. Just like being glue. The master of intangibles and unsubstantial correlative results!

If pumping a metric ton of sunshine into Atari's anus each week to keep his confidence up is what it takes to keep him from making mistakes out there, I'm all for it though.

At what velocity is that sunshine moving? Because I'm guessing that at its normal speed of C, sunshine has to be pretty near massless. A metric ton would be a LOT of sunshine.

[get louder at lambeau]

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about retarded and unwarranted negative fan reaction to a player who has been playing well enough to get a game ball for three consecutive weeks. You seem to think I was saying something else completely.

Does someone keep stats on gameballs now? Because obviously it's the best measure of how talented a player is. Just like being glue. The master of intangibles and unsubstantial correlative results!

If pumping a metric ton of sunshine into Atari's anus each week to keep his confidence up is what it takes to keep him from making mistakes out there, I'm all for it though.

So, here's a summary of your argument, Skin-

If reporters give him any credit, it's dismissed as a "fluff piece".

When he gets some big hits, they are weren't any bigger than any other safety would have.

Being fifth in the NFL among safeties in INTs is just because the QBs throw balls straight at him and he somehow manages not to drop them once in a while.

When he plays well, it's just because of how great everyone around him is, and it says nothing about him as a player.

If he gets lots of gameballs and praise from the HC, it's just because McCarthy is trying to blow sunshine up his ass to keep him from making mistakes.

Did I miss anything?

[RashanGary]

When he gets the vote of scouts as the best SS in the NFCN, it's because there are 3 other SS's that don't belong in the NFL more than Bigby doesn't belong.

[Smidgeon]

When he gets the vote of scouts as the best SS in the NFCN, it's because there are 3 other SS's that don't belong in the NFL more than Bigby doesn't belong.

Has a rankings been released somewhere?

[get louder at lambeau]

Ridiculous. Every football player faces this, it is not unique to GB. You play until someone outplays you, with very few exceptions. It's just the way it is and should have no bearing on players coming here or anywhere.

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about retarded and unwarranted negative fan reaction to a player who has been playing well enough to get a game ball for three consecutive weeks. You seem to think I was saying something else completely.

This is what I was talking about. No player should be making decisions from this perspective, and GB has "no unique" fan reaction from any other city. I really don't understand the attitude that you gave me. No reasons for that.

One more reason NOT to go to GB if you're a FA.

Me asking you what the fuck you're talking about = attitude, but your post starting with "Rediculous." isn't? K.

It looked to me like you were arguing something about the depth chart or something. Came off like you totally missed what I was saying-

You play until someone outplays you, with very few exceptions. It's just the way it is and should have no bearing on players coming here or anywhere.

I still wonder what the fuck you were talking about there. Not so much an expression of attitude as confusion, really. "You play until someone outplays you." That's very nice, and very, very obvious. That has what to do with my post about ignorantly negative fan opinion of someone who is playing great football?

Maybe I just took it wrong, out of frustration with Skin discounting every piece of evidence that he's wrong while offering nothing to support his negative opinion of Bigby, except a graph about the minions of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and their affect on Global Warming.

You're right that all teams have some fans who criticize players excessively, but I guess I expect a little more from Packer fans. We are supposed to be "The best fans in the league." and yet there are a lot of them/us who seem to do nothing but offer negative opinions about players and bitch about management, even now, when we're 11-5, playing great, and headed to the playoffs on a hot streak.

Skin's dismissal of Bigby as a weak link who should be replaced while he's playing very, very well is just another little example of a Packer fan offering nothing more than negativity and flawed logic to me. I find ignorant negativity very annoying, and that's what I see here.

Skin- Let's see something, anything, that backs up your point of view. Maybe a stat, or an article that is critical of Bigby. Anything. My guess is you will have trouble finding much.

[RashanGary]

When he gets the vote of scouts as the best SS in the NFCN, it's because there are 3 other SS's that don't belong in the NFL more than Bigby doesn't belong.

Has a rankings been released somewhere?

Bob McGinn did a PI piece where he polled scouts about a week ago.

[Smidgeon]

When he gets the vote of scouts as the best SS in the NFCN, it's because there are 3 other SS's that don't belong in the NFL more than Bigby doesn't belong.

Has a rankings been released somewhere?

Bob McGinn did a PI piece where he polled scouts about a week ago.

Do you have the link? I can't find it (probably because I was in DC and didn't have time to catch up on all the articles on the web).

[RashanGary]

STRONG SAFETY: Atari Bigby* (GB), 9. Others: Tyrell Johnson (Minn), 7; Al Afalava (Chi), 5; Marquand Manuel (Det), 3.

Comments: Bigby was the first unanimous pick at SS since LeRoy Butler in '95. "It was one of his better years," one scout said. Johnson and Afalava didn't fare well as first-year starters. Manuel was over the hill three years ago. "There's a league-wide problem at safety," a scout said.

http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/80516717.html

[Smidgeon]

STRONG SAFETY: Atari Bigby* (GB), 9. Others: Tyrell Johnson (Minn), 7; Al Afalava (Chi), 5; Marquand Manuel (Det), 3.

Comments: Bigby was the first unanimous pick at SS since LeRoy Butler in '95. "It was one of his better years," one scout said. Johnson and Afalava didn't fare well as first-year starters. Manuel was over the hill three years ago. "There's a league-wide problem at safety," a scout said.


http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/80516717.html

Thanks for the link. That's always one of my favorite articles by McGinn. I know it's a guilty pleasure, but I am, after all, a fan.

[packerbacker1234]

Someone said that scott wells is an unsung hero.


Is he really? He was better at center from day one, the excuse to play spitz was 'the overall line plays better with him over wells'.

That was proven to be false, and wells got screwed out of his starting role. The guy has been as solid as a center can be since taking over a few years back.

So, is he unsung? I don't think so. He was teh best center on the roster before the year started, and the coaching staff decided to screw with it. He is a proven starting caliber center, he's not unsung, he's doing what he has always done.

[ThunderDan]

Someone said that scott wells is an unsung hero.


Is he really? He was better at center from day one, the excuse to play spitz was 'the overall line plays better with him over wells'.

That was proven to be false, and wells got screwed out of his starting role. The guy has been as solid as a center can be since taking over a few years back.

So, is he unsung? I don't think so. He was teh best center on the roster before the year started, and the coaching staff decided to screw with it. He is a proven starting caliber center, he's not unsung, he's doing what he has always done.

I don't know if that is true. Ask Spitz if having Barbre play RT and either a hurt Clifton or rookie Lange play LT hurt the O-Line at the beginning of the year.

[RashanGary]

Spitz goes down for the year
Clifton gets injured
Barbre struggles and is replaced by Tausch
Taush takes time to get 100%
Colledge bounces around positions


The last few weeks things have come together and some chemistry has built. The OL isn't great, but right now they're doing their job well.

[mraynrand]

STRONG SAFETY: Atari Bigby* (GB), 9. Others: Tyrell Johnson (Minn), 7; Al Afalava (Chi), 5; Marquand Manuel (Det), 3.

Comments: Bigby was the first unanimous pick at SS since LeRoy Butler in '95. "It was one of his better years," one scout said. Johnson and Afalava didn't fare well as first-year starters. Manuel was over the hill three years ago. "There's a league-wide problem at safety," a scout said.


http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/80516717.html

Thanks for the link. That's always one of my favorite articles by McGinn. I know it's a guilty pleasure, but I am, after all, a fan.

"I don't know how BOB McKinnie made the Pro BOB Bowl," one scout said. "That's a laugher. You know why BOB he got voted in? Because there was BOB nobody else to vote for. I BOB think he's a slob."

oops - can't have a direct quote: BOB added to make it my paraphrase.

[swede]

One of Bob's scouts.

He's pretty excited about Evan Dietrich-Smith.

[SkinBasket]

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about retarded and unwarranted negative fan reaction to a player who has been playing well enough to get a game ball for three consecutive weeks. You seem to think I was saying something else completely.

Does someone keep stats on gameballs now? Because obviously it's the best measure of how talented a player is. Just like being glue. The master of intangibles and unsubstantial correlative results!

If pumping a metric ton of sunshine into Atari's anus each week to keep his confidence up is what it takes to keep him from making mistakes out there, I'm all for it though.

So, here's a summary of your argument, Skin-

If reporters give him any credit, it's dismissed as a "fluff piece".

When he gets some big hits, they are weren't any bigger than any other safety would have.

Being fifth in the NFL among safeties in INTs is just because the QBs throw balls straight at him and he somehow manages not to drop them once in a while.

When he plays well, it's just because of how great everyone around him is, and it says nothing about him as a player.

If he gets lots of gameballs and praise from the HC, it's just because McCarthy is trying to blow sunshine up his ass to keep him from making mistakes.

Did I miss anything?

Those would be some of my arguments. My main point being that calling Bigby a pro-bowl caliber player and pinning our wins and losses on him is ridiculous. I feel it's fairly obvious that Bigby's role has been relegated to playing deep help, and in that role he's benefiting from a great defense in front of him applying pressure, crushing the run at the line, and covering well. Not the other way around, that Bigby brings some magical undefinable quality (oftentimes referred to as "glue," or "positive team effect," or the "Ruvell factor") that makes this entire defense dominant by virtue of him simply being on the field. Several people and articles have claimed he's out there adjusting the defense or calling coverages, and while it's hard to pick up on that when he's oftentimes starting the play off camera, I'll try to pay closer attention this weekend to see if that's true, because to my best recollection, I haven't seen it happening. I'll run down your list quick though.

JSO runs lots of fluff pieces, not just for Bigby. They're easy, feel good scribble. Fans like them because it makes them feel good about the player and the team, especially when things are going well.

As far as the big hits go, Bigby had a few - a couple years ago. This season he's had some solid whacks on guys over the middle, but nothing that makes him stand out from any other safety lining up a big hit on an easy target.

I don't recall any of his INTs requiring any special athleticism or talent other than not dropping the ball. I don't fault him for that - it's what he's supposed to do in that position. I think I remarked that it's nice, but it doesn't make me feel a different player wouldn't have made those plays or that Bigby should be considered a pro bowl talent for catching them. Again, it's a direct benefit of a great defense providing those opportunities. Eugene Robinson used to play the same role years ago. He was slow because he was old. Atari's just slow because he's slow.

I don't know if Bigby is playing any better or any worse than he has in the past when healthy. He's made a couple ankle tackles that I think he's missed in the past, so I would say that's improved. Of course he's making those diving tackles because he's not quick to adjust when the ball carrier changes direction.

The amount of praise he's been getting seems excessive and not all of it seems based on reality. They talk a lot about his confidence. About how they trust him. All of his "responsibilities." They give him footballs and pat him on the back. It smells a little like the slightly retarded kid in high school who finally hits or catches the ball after several dozen tries and everyone gives him accolades and he smiles real big and feels important and tries harder. I'm sure others have different interpretations of it, but that's how it strikes me.

Bottom line: Bigby is one of, if not the most, limited players on this defense. I see his recent success as a direct result of a vastly improved defense, scheme, and coaching staff. His role has been limited, and to appease his ego and retain his confidence, he is praised excessively about his trustworthiness, his responsibilities, and given game balls.

If you want to argue that Atari is so important to this defense as to be almost single-handedly responsible for it's vast improvements, then you would also have to argue that Al Harris conversely was of little to no importance, given the lack of defensive drop off since he was injured. Correlating wins and loses to one player of Bigby's abilities playing or not is absurd.

I understand we can't have all pros at all 11 positions on defense, so I'm fine with having Bigby there for now. I just don't happen to believe he is magically responsible for the improvement on defense, much less the wins and losses of the team, or that he's anywhere near being pro bowl quality.