Atari Bigby

[Zool]

I guess I'd say he's playing how a starter should play. He's not making any exceptional plays but he's not a giant gaping hole in the middle like the other scrubs we've had recently. Compared with Rouse, Manuel et al, he seems like an all-pro.

[mraynrand]

Rouse was absolutely brutal down the stretch for the Giants. Good thing they fired the Giants' D coordinator to improve his skills. At least we know that strategy worked in GB.

[RashanGary]

Balls: The defensive backs minus Atari Bigby, who managed to completely destroy any confidence I had built in him that he will ever be anything other than a slow plodding dope with dreads with a reputation much larger than the reality.

I'm sorry, but I cannot get excited about any defense that starts Bigby. Doesn't matter how fat or potentially talented the line is if there's always going to an open TE or slot running free across or down the field.

These are the types of comments about Bigby that I was talking about when I started this thread.

Saying he's not a superstar, I don't think that deserves an apology at all. That's not what you tend to say about Bigby though. Patrick Dendy and Noah Herron were good, smart targets by you. Bigby, I think you're dead wrong on, couldn't be more wrong.



As far as what he's done for this defense, we don't have anyone else who can play safety. He's an impact player and has probowl ability IMO, but even if he wasn't, even if he was just average, he still has a major impact on this team because we have junk after him.

Admit it, Bigby means a lot to this team right now. Admit Bigby is not a bad player right now.

[mraynrand]

Bigby seen through Skinbasket's eyes:



Bigby seen through many Packer fans' eyes:

[Smidgeon]

I guess I'd say he's playing how a starter should play. He's not making any exceptional plays but he's not a giant gaping hole in the middle like the other scrubs we've had recently. Compared with Rouse, Manuel et al, he seems like an all-pro.

+1 Bingo!

[Joemailman]

Definitely "Safety" ought to be on our draft wish list. Not that Bigby isn't at least a moderately adequate player when surrounded by talent, but the fact that everybody lower on the depth chart is actually worse than Bigby means that we might want to draft two safeties.

Wow. The guy gets three consecutive game balls from the HC, and has 3 INTs in the last two games. Look at the amazing fan reaction players can expect if they come to GB. One more reason NOT to go to GB if you're a FA.

If this were a factor, Philadelphia would never sign a free agent.

[RashanGary]

I don't agree that Bigby makes no impact plays. He makes big hits, still does. Bigger than Collins and Collins is a big hitter too. He gets interceptions. He stops the run.


He doesn't give up big plays and he makes big plays. As far as I'm concerned, when Bigby is healthy, I think he's as good as Collins but I trust Collins to stay healthy and be reliable so I'd much rather have Collins.

[Smidgeon]

I don't agree that Bigby makes no impact plays. He makes big hits, still does. Bigger than Collins and Collins is a big hitter too. He gets interceptions. He stops the run.


He doesn't give up big plays and he makes big plays. As far as I'm concerned, when Bigby is healthy, I think he's as good as Collins but I trust Collins to stay healthy and be reliable so I'd much rather have Collins.

I would say that he doesn't give up big plays, but I'd stop there. Collins is far superior. Bigby doesn't create. He doesn't have coaches salivating over what he can do. Collins creates (though not frequently, he does it more than Bigby), and he has coaches and analysts salivating on his range and athleticism. Except for the last quarter of 2007, nobody's been that high on Bigby (except for you ). He'd definitely solid, but eventually I'd like to see a couple young draft picks with upside come in for competition.

[SkinBasket]

Admit it, Bigby means a lot to this team right now. Admit Bigby is not a bad player right now.

I would appreciate if you dated quotes you're going to pull from the past. Then I would know the context of when I was making those comments. Regardless, those comments still stand and you prove my point: that some people will always see him for what they want him to be instead of what he is. When the defense isn't playing well enough to cover his limitations, he gets exposed. When they're playing well, they can compensate and even allow him to play in a limited fashion that plays to what ability he does have.

No one's arguing that he isn't the best option we have right now. I'm saying he's no where near as talented as some people want him to be. He is not a pro bowler and he is not the reason this team wins or loses.

[KYPack]

Admit it, Bigby means a lot to this team right now. Admit Bigby is not a bad player right now.

I would appreciate if you dated quotes you're going to pull from the past. Then I would know the context of when I was making those comments. Regardless, those comments still stand and you prove my point: that some people will always see him for what they want him to be instead of what he is. When the defense isn't playing well enough to cover his limitations, he gets exposed. When they're playing well, they can compensate and even allow him to play in a limited fashion that plays to what ability he does have.

No one's arguing that he isn't the best option we have right now. I'm saying he's no where near as talented as some people want him to be. He is not a pro bowler and he is not the reason this team wins or loses.

Well, I think you two boys got the whole matter pretty well hashed out.

Skin's comment above reminds of Nixon's old quote about JFK.

"People look at Kennedy and see what they want to be.
They look at me and see what they are".

[vince]

When the defense isn't playing well enough to cover his limitations, he gets exposed. When they're playing well, they can compensate and even allow him to play in a limited fashion that plays to what ability he does have.

We're obviously not going to see Bigby pressing the line of scrimmage manning up wideouts much. He'd be abused quickly. But that doesn't make him weak at doing what is needed (even making a positive impact) in order to make the defense successful as a whole.

Offenses spend all week looking for ways to isolate weaknesses and expose them when they see them. Teams could easily keep extra blockers in to create more time for the QB and flood zones to create one-on-ones for Bigby and abuse him if he was truly as incompetent as you've characterized him back there. In addition to the team helping him as you've pointed out, his ability - and reliability - helps Capers and the playmakers be more aggressive and add to their success. And when backs and receivers cross his path, he has the mindset and leg strength to clean their clock.

I'm a bit surprised that he hasn't been asked to play closer to the line of scrimmage and blitz a bit more, because I think he's strong when on the attack, but Woodson has unique skills and has excelled in his role moving all over the place and being the primary db blitzer - so Bigby rightfully takes on the deep safety role.

I don't think anyone would be crying if a guy like Berry or Mays came along with better skills and took over his spot in the starting lineup, but neither may be there when the Packers pick. And Mays even has a lot of questions about him these days. I'm sure some could throw out a couple more names, but I don't think you can go much deeper than a handful of guys in the draft that could unseed Bigby - particularly with his experience and the trust and chemistry he's built with his coaches and teammates.

If someone does unseed him, then you'll probably have a hard time keeping him around, since he's not currently locked up. I'd love to have Bigby's skills and experience be the first backup rather than whoever it is now, because injuries are a fact of life and we lack depth at the position. Say what you want about the guy, there are a lot of teams in addition to the Packers he could start for tomorrow. We've all seen the reject safeties come through Green Bay that are still floating around the league.

That's not hoping Bigby's something he's not. That's reality as I see it.

[RashanGary]

Bigby is finally healthy. He's acclimated to the defense. He's playing great. If you were to ask me who is going to have more big plays this post season, I'd say Bigby over Collins.

Collins does have more over the last couple years becuase he's supremely durable and Bigby seems to always be injured. When healthy though, I see Bigby making more big plays than Collins and considering Bigby is healthy right now, I'd expect that trend to continue.

Don't get me wrong, I think Collins is the better player to resign. He's great in coverage, has great range, is always healthy, gets interceptions and big hits. He's complete. Bigby is strictly a downhill zone guy who can't be asked to match fast TE's in coverage or 3rd WR's. But we don't ask for that out of our SS. We ask him to play downhill in a zone. We ask him to come forward to get picks or make big hits. He's put in an ideal position to succeed right now.

[Bretsky]

Spitz goes down for the year
Clifton gets injured
Barbre struggles and is replaced by Tausch
Taush takes time to get 100%
Colledge bounces around positions


The last few weeks things have come together and some chemistry has built. The OL isn't great, but right now they're doing their job well.

DITTO and Great Point; the turnaround of this OL was the biggest factor in turning our season around.

I don't care what anybody thinks about youth; bringing back and keeping Tausch is invaluable. Even as a reliable backup. Dude is outstanding for chemistry and steps up his game when called upon.

[Lurker64]

Wow. The guy gets three consecutive game balls from the HC, and has 3 INTs in the last two games. Look at the amazing fan reaction players can expect if they come to GB. One more reason NOT to go to GB if you're a FA.

Okay, keep in mind that in the 3-4 defense we run the Strong Safety is ideally a big time playmaker position (c.f. Polamalu, Troy and Reed, Ed). Collins is a very good free safety, but our strong safety is not a big time difference maker, and our depth at S is basically nonexistent, so I think we should go get a few in hopes we land a big time player or alternatively just get some quality depth in there. Derrick Martin and Matt Giordano do not fill me with confidence, and Bigby is far from one of the best players on our defense.

[pbmax]

Wow. The guy gets three consecutive game balls from the HC, and has 3 INTs in the last two games. Look at the amazing fan reaction players can expect if they come to GB. One more reason NOT to go to GB if you're a FA.

Okay, keep in mind that in the 3-4 defense we run the Strong Safety is ideally a big time playmaker position (c.f. Polamalu, Troy and Reed, Ed). Collins is a very good free safety, but our strong safety is not a big time difference maker, and our depth at S is basically nonexistent, so I think we should go get a few in hopes we land a big time player or alternatively just get some quality depth in there. Derrick Martin and Matt Giordano do not fill me with confidence, and Bigby is far from one of the best players on our defense.

Except that I think you have Polamalu's position confused with Bigby's. Ryan Clark patrols the deep middle for Pittsburgh and is usually back while Polamalu moves around like Collins. KYPack sees more of Pittsburgh than I do, so maybe he can shed some light on this as well.

The Ravens run a different style of D and play less zone than the Steelers or Capers normally do/does. So to find the Ed Reed position of our defense is tougher. Reed is listed as the Free Safety there, so he may be deeper on average than Landry, so that comparison might be fairer. But I am having a hard time envisioning Jim Leonhard playing close to the line SS, which is what he would have been doing last year if Reed played deep. I will say this, for the number of INTs he collects, I wouldn't be surprised if he is deep a lot.

Bigby is deep not because they are hiding him, its because Collins is better and with his skills in this defense dictate he needs to move around like Polamalu. Polamalu and Collins are rarely matched up one on one. Most safeties aren't. The Packers are an aberration here in that both Butler and to a lesser extent Sharper could be used this way. Bigby's role is much more like Eugene Robinson, who was no burner himself. But knowledge and anticipation got him to the deep throws more often than not. That is Bigby's primary job and the one he must be able to maintain.

The one concern I have about Bigby besides health is speed. Even back deep, I have seen too many receivers behind him and the CB. Not every game, but enough to worry. If his recognition is picking up in the D as people are saying, then he might be able to compensate for the lack of a top end gear. Its working for him lately on routes in front of him.

And as a point of emphasis about the deep safety, Paul Krause was elected to the HOF for playing that "centerfielder" position and catching the fly balls that the Purple People Eaters forced. There is something to be said for being in the right place and catching the ball.