And the MVP goes to.....

[Scott Campbell]

We all know that Sidney Rice was healed by Brett laying his hands on him. It was a miracle.

[MOBB DEEP]

SIGH....

Favre 90 years old so his season is ALREADY praise worthy. Just give him his due packerrats and keep it moving

Favre never did nuthn to nobody and its not his fault that he became an icon

The hate never seizes even with Pack's success and promising future.....

If you have disdain for someone you dont know (other than mass murderers, etc) you MUST do some soul searching. I did! And now I dig what even Kobe Bryant and Randy Moss bring to the table and how they ENTERTAIN me...dayum, not rocket science...

Hate the sin not the sinner is a good, God-ordained philosophy. So since Favre is SUCH periah in some ppl's minds, pray for him and his soul

mere ENTERTAINMENT, so appreciate what he brings to the game like Denzel and the movie industry

How to Evolve and Keep Things in Perspective 101

Class dismissed......

[MOBB DEEP]

I'm fine with people being Favre fans

I cant tell...

[denverYooper]

SIGH....

Favre 90 years old so his season is ALREADY praise worthy. Just give him his due packerrats and keep it moving

Favre never did nuthn to nobody and its not his fault that he became an icon

The hate never seizes even with Pack's success and promising future.....

If you have disdain for someone you dont know (other than mass murderers, etc) you MUST do some soul searching. I did! And now I dig what even Kobe Bryant and Randy Moss bring to the table and how they ENTERTAIN me...dayum, not rocket science...

Hate the sin not the sinner is a good, God-ordained philosophy. So since Favre is SUCH periah in some ppl's minds, pray for him and his soul

mere ENTERTAINMENT, so appreciate what he brings to the game like Denzel and the movie industry

How to Evolve and Keep Things in Perspective 101

Class dismissed......

What I often see is a reaction to the man-myth Mobb. Favre's personal myth greatly overshadows the man himself and would seem to obscure the less desirable personality traits that he displays (a rather ponderous ego for one). People get tired of that, especially when we've been inside of it for the last several years, on both sides of the line.

I also think there is reaction to a certain subset of idolatrous posters who seem to show up when the Packers are playing poorly and just blindly criticize TT, MM, and Rodgers with the same tired old lines. So I think there's some extra incentive to react to that when the worm turns. It's an integral part of the nature of anonymous posting regarding any kind of competitive endeavour.

Whatever the case may be Mobb, people have the right , nay, the duty, to be critical of entertainment figures. In fact, the critical facility is something that has evolved in humans as a species and critical discourse, last I checked, is one of the founding ideals of our country and something that continues to drive the relatively unfettered nature of discussion on the internet (at least, in our country). I would argue that blindly worshiping any sports or entertainment figure
is perhaps a less evolved form of discourse.

This is nothing against you Mobb. I think you're a fine fellow and I usually enjoy what you bring to this forum. I just don't know why you continue to try to defend a man who by his choice of occupation implicitly agrees to accept a great deal of criticism, whether that criticism be accurate or not.

[Guiness]

Manning has broken Favre's first record. Many more to come, if he stays healthy....

Not so sure that will happen any more. It will take Manning 5-6 years after Favre retires to catch most of Favre's records. Manning will be 34 in March. Even if Favre retires this year, healthy or not, will Manning play long enough to catch Favre? He could, but with each added year that Favre plays, the likelihood decreases.

Favre's records could hold up for a long time, maybe until the league goes to an 18 game schedule or something. Favre passed Marino somewhat by playing longer. A QB is going to need around 300 starts to catch Favre, absent some significant rule changes that make 300 yard, 3TD games the norm for a QB

At this point, I think whether or not Manning breaks some of Favre's longevity records (TD, yards, etc) is pretty much up to chance.

Manning has surprised me a bit these past couple years, showing will, desire and toughness I wasn't sure he had, that he needs to play long enough to get by those records. So as much as anything else, it's up to him avoiding a major injury that would require major rehab. IMO the state of passing in the NFL right now means that if Manning plays as long as Favre does, he'll get by the records. But not everyone is going to be like Jerry Rice, and come back from a potential career ender in their late 30's.

[The Leaper]

Manning has broken Favre's first record. Many more to come, if he stays healthy....

Since Favre is likely to stick around another year IMO, I'm starting to doubt that Manning will in fact get all of Favre's records. Manning will have to play 5 more years after Favre hangs them up to topple some of them.

Manning is almost 34. He's not the natural athlete Favre is...so I don't see Manning on the field after 40. If Favre does in fact play another year...and puts up another 3800 yards and 25+ TDs (obviously quite possible), then here's where Favre finishes:

Yardage: ~73,000
TD: ~525
Comp: ~6425
Att: ~10,300

Here is where Manning is at...and what he would need to average if he played 6 more seasons after this one (plays until he is 39):

Yardage: 50,128 (needs 23,000 yards or 3,833 yards a season)
TD: 366 (needs 160 TDs or 27 TDs a season)
Comp: 4,232 (needs 2,200 COMP or 366 a season)
Att: 6,531 (needs 3800 ATT or 633 a season)

So, the bottom line is that at this point, it seems highly unlikely that Manning is going to break all of Favre's records. In fact, I think Favre's attempt total will be quite safe. Yardage and TDs is probably the most likely records Manning could break...but that's a hell of a lot of tosses Manning still has to make.

However, for Manning to break ANY of these, he is going to have to play another 6 years at a very high level and not miss any more than a game or two along the way. I just don't see it happening IMO. Manning has nothing to prove and will have a cushy studio gig when his career is over.

Face it people...Brett Favre is a machine. He's quite honestly the best franchise QB of all-time, because he plays every game and has done so at a very high level for what will be close to 2 decades!

It will take the NFL expanding to an 18 game season for any QBs to challenge some of Favre's records...and even then it will be tough, but eventually will happen.

Remember...many thought Marino had records that were virtually untouchable, and Favre has dismantled them. Will be the first to 500 TD passes and 10,000 attempts...ridiculous milestones!

[The Leaper]

Manning has surprised me a bit these past couple years, showing will, desire and toughness I wasn't sure he had, that he needs to play long enough to get by those records. So as much as anything else, it's up to him avoiding a major injury that would require major rehab. IMO the state of passing in the NFL right now means that if Manning plays as long as Favre does, he'll get by the records. But not everyone is going to be like Jerry Rice, and come back from a potential career ender in their late 30's.

I agree.

The other issue with Manning is that his immobility is going to be a major threat if his OL doesn't remain elite. It will be difficult to keep that OL at the level it currently is for another 6+ seasons, especially when they have some good young guys that will be looking to make coin 2-4 years down the line.

That brings up revenue sharing as well...if in fact that goes down in this next round of labor talks, Indy probably won't be able to last as an NFL franchise. While I think the chances are remote this time around, if the revenue sharing did go away, it would be far more difficult for the Colts to pay FAs.

[packerbacker1234]

That's the thing about Favre lovers, it's so obvious that their minds are not open.


The reason Driver and the Packer receivers over the years have had success was Brett Favre making them better (Favre leaves and nobody drops off).

The reason Grant had such a great end of 2007 was because Favre made the running game better (Favre leaves and we now have the best running game we've had in 5 years with maybe the 2nd worst OL)

The reason the Jets succeeded last year was because Favre (not the better health and new addition). A year later, they're better without Favre.

Favre makes everyone better (goes to Minnesota and AP has his worst year ever).

The reason Packers had success in the 90's and 2000's was Brett Favre. When he leaves look for decades of obscurity. (We're in the playoffs right now and as hot as we've been heading into the post season since the 90's.)

The reason Sidney Rice is great is Brett Favre (Rice had a solid rookie year, was injured his 2nd year and broke out his 3rd). Whenever Favre retires, Rice is still going to be a great player, mark it down.




I'm fine with people being Favre fans. He's had a great career. I understand how some people can be fleeced by his act, I don't hold it against them. But the ability to ignore reality to believe Favre is a unique hero playing with mere mortals, I don't think there is evidence to support that at all. I think the evidence points to Favre being a really good player with legendary durability, a charismatic personality and a part of a football organization that is built right from top down so they've had a lot of success and should contineu to have a lot of success as long as meddling owners bring down the competition. He's a guy who left Greenbay angry and went to two other really good teams. He's a guy who's still a great football player, playing at the highest level and excelling at the highest level. Why do people have to prop him up beyond that? Why does he have to be better than everyone to some people? Why does he have to take so much away from hsi teammates? Why does notobyd around him ever get credit. That's the #1 reason I'm glad he's gone. Now the team I love gets credit for being what htey've always been (really talented for many years)

Jets Record:

9-7 in 2008, just missed playoffs.
9-7 in 2009, made playoffs.

Looks to me they are about the same with or without favre.

Notably, Favre in 2007 pretty much had the exact same line that Rodgers has right now. The only difference is Sitton. We went froma HoF QB to a really damn good QB that if he keeps it up could be a HoF guy himself when it's all said and done. Aka, we dumped favre, and replace him with a guy putting up similar numbers with less turnovers.

We have the 2nd best running attack since we got grant technically, but there is no doubt we are a passing team first. I mean, I can't remember the pslit, but it was close to a 60 - 40 passing to run play calling htis year with teh pack.

I am not saying Favre is the be all end all. Yes, he went to Minnesota and AP had a "down" year. That down year was because he got less touches. That down year produced the most points out of AP in any season (18 TD's is the most he has scored in a season, and he leads in that category in the NFL). Meanwhile, he is heading back to the probowl. So for such a down year, he still made it to the probowl.

And, the vikings offense is averaging almost 6 more points a game. It's pretty clear that Favre in minnesota, to this point, has worked. AP is still getting numbers, they just no longer pound it 60% of the time. It's clear Favre did make that vikings offense better.

Look, everyone knows I like favre... something about the way he plays the game just makes it a lot of fun to watch. However, I do agree with your points. There is just a few I disagree with.

The jets are not any better this year then they were last year. Same record, and when he went to the jets last year, it was coming off a losing season. So no, Favre went to a losing team, not a winning team.

Favre then went from one 9-7 team, to another 9-7 team. They go from 9 wins to 12, and a first round bye. Is it all on Favre? Of course not. The last 3 Teams in the final year he started for them, had better seasons overall then the year prior.

I really like Aaron Rodgers, and we are fortunate he turned out to be as good as he is. Am I also not allowed to like Favre too? I am not going to act like he is a godsend - but he's a pretty damn good player, and what he did this year is MVP worthy most every year. I think he is more then just really good, but he is what we all thought he was when he played for us: One fo the true legends to ever touch the field. He won a lot of games, had a lot of heroics, and obviously a lot of colapses late in games. His playoff record this decade is horrible, while in the 90's it was awesome.

I like both players (AR and Favre), and yes Favre doesn't make a team. He had a lot of talent sourounding him in the 90's, and now he has that again in Minn.

I will say though, that this same argument can be applied to Peyton Manning. I mean hell, he as just a ok QB up until he had one of the best pass blocking OL's in the game, adn they changed the rules pretty much because of him (not officially, but the colts pushed hard for all these "protect the QB" rules). Peyton gets a lot of flags for the stupidest of stuff (I got bumped a half second after throwing... FLAG).

Anyways I digress. I love both QB's, and we are one hell of a lucky franchise.

[RashanGary]

Favre's most amazing attributes:


Legendary Durability
Jaw dropping physical ability in his prime
Maybe the only QB, EVER, who at 40 is still as good of an athlete as most 25 year old NFL QB's
Later in his career his ball security, ability to make every throw, intelligence with reading defenses, wisdom to know when to just line up and beat the other guy (throw into tight coverage rather than hold the ball), knack for never screwing up an easy play, command of the offense, pretty much every mental aspect of the game is off the charts. I know nobody wants to remember the gun slinger, the legendary athlete as this, but right now, I consider him the best game manager in football, similar to how Montana played without the mobility.
(this isn't a Favre attribute), but I think one of the biggest reasons he's done what he's done is the players he's played with. With the exception of 3 or 4 seasons, Favre always had a really good team. Few QB's have had the type of franchise stability and steady talent as Favre had on his teams.

I know Favre is a great player and has been great for many, many, many, many years. His career is amazing. Some of the things he did and some of the things he does at the very highest level is AMAZING.

I'm fine with appreciating what he did and what he does, but I also don't like how he treats other people and what he did on his way out of here. I don't like how everything he does is somehow sticking it to hte Packers organization (the organization that provided the talent and teams that he thrived in) For the record, I don't think any single season Favre was a one man crew that carried a team. I don't think that's how the NFL works. I don't think QB's should get given credit for team wins. I think the way Rodgers is playing now (smarter than young brett and more physically gifted than old brett) is as good as any year of Brett's career (2nd half of this season anyway). But, I don't think Rodgers will have even close to the career Favre had. I don't know if the Rodgers we've seen the last 8 games is even the real Rodgers. I can't guarantee he's not a flash in the pan, though I doubt it. Favre's physical ability and durability are legendary. I don't think Favre has the records because he was a better QB than Brady, Manning and Montana. I think he broke those records and will probably hold them becuase his body was better and he could play longer without injury.

I'd say he's had the most amazing NFL career of any NFL QB, but individual years, I don't think he even comes close to the best of the best. Those guys figured out what Brett did at 37 when they were 26, even if they couldn't last as long and didn't accumulate stats, I look at several QB's that I've watched as being as good as Brett and a good handful as better. Best career, Brett gets it. Best QB, I don't know if he'd even make the top 20 all time based on how many I like more in just the last 5 or 6 years, but that's impossible to measure.

[MOBB DEEP]

lmao that during halftime they showed a favre commercial talkn about playoffs

how ironic

[MOBB DEEP]

...not aaron rodgers

just kidding; i know ther are some softies around here who cant handle the banter. not sure how they deal with REAL life. keep in perspective

pack read press clippings about our great d