Fire Capers

[wist43]

You don't fire Capers. The guy made this defense respectable...even with the losses of Harris and Kampman. If you had said before the season that the defense would lose Harris and Kampman, most would've assumed the defense would've gone into the tank.

Should he be taken to task for this defensive gameplan? Sure he should. He should be told that kind of disappearing act will not be tolerated again.

The defense has some needs. We clearly are very thin in the secondary...which is dangerous when the playoffs is full of elite QBs and offenses these days.

Overall, the defense took a major step forward this year...but more work needs to be done, obviously. Give Capers a chance to finish the job...I really don't see anyone on the staff capable of stepping up to DC right now.

A voice of reason, lol...

In general, I agree with all of that... although, in a 3-4, I don't view Kampmans loss as a negative, but a plus. Love him as a 4-3 End, fish out of water as a 3-4 LB...

I know Capers won't be fired...

And I was fan #1 in the change to a 3-4... but I would hate to see our chances for a championship squandered by cowardice. Capers is just one of those guys... so afraid to die, that he can't bring himself to live, i.e. chocked by caution.

Beat me with 3 bombs??? I don't care... in the mean time, I've beat the living shit out of your QB, your OL doesn't know where I'm coming from, I've forced 3 turnovers, 5 sacks, and 14 pressures...

You may beat me... but if you do, you will earn it, and I can live with that - what I can't live with, is passivity, and simply hoping you don't "beat me" too bad...

I don't mind losing... what I mind is going down without a fight.

[wist43]

I thought this was a joke...let it die.

Ohferchrissakes people. Now you've got me agreeing with Sheepshead? Knock it off!!

Com'on MJ...

You know me to far too intelligent to stake out an indefensible position... Breeds Hill, or Bunker Hill, lol... I'm willing to fight this one out

BTW, we found out a couple of days ago, it's a girl... I'll be the oldest dad at graduation

Super psyched about that

Yay girl! Congrats papa! (but they're just not going to fire Dom Capers)(and don't go overboard with the pink--and no pink packer gear. Green and gold or nada.)(except the breast cancer cap.)

Already bought baby Fiona (I had no say in naming girl - mom's choice, lol) a "I was born a Packer Fan" shirt

She gives mama a kick whenever we score... so she is already on the side of righteousness

[BZnDallas]

I thought this was a joke...let it die.

Ohferchrissakes people. Now you've got me agreeing with Sheepshead? Knock it off!!

Com'on MJ...

You know me to far too intelligent to stake out an indefensible position... Breeds Hill, or Bunker Hill, lol... I'm willing to fight this one out

BTW, we found out a couple of days ago, it's a girl... I'll be the oldest dad at graduation

Super psyched about that

Yay girl! Congrats papa! (but they're just not going to fire Dom Capers)(and don't go overboard with the pink--and no pink packer gear. Green and gold or nada.)(except the breast cancer cap.)

Already bought baby Fiona (I had no say in naming girl - mom's choice, lol) a "I was born a Packer Fan" shirt

She gives mama a kick whenever we score... so she is already on the side of righteousness

CONGRATS on the newbie WIST!!!... always happy to add another fan to family!... and let me add, i do like reading your insightful posts... i do think for the most part you 'get it'... i may not always like what i read out of you, but it certainly makes for good conversation... again congrats on your new baby!!

[pbmax]

Congrats on the great news.

wist, Capers and Tomlin did not coach together on the Steelers. He was in New England last year.

A free release off the LOS is a basic feature of the Steelers zone for an interior receiver covered by a safety of LB. Even if they play short zones tight, its still zone with one interior receiver free to run into the short zone. That is the pass play they want you to take. Challenging the release of a slot receiver who is 3 yards off the LOS is a losing proposition. Too many angles to take.

The problem was that those interior receivers were getting into the middle of the field without being redirected in the route. And when they covered the interior, the X and Ys were getting into the middle with no help coming fast enough. The seam routes I think would have been harder to complete if Bigby plants someone during the game. I still don't know what happened to him. Never heard it on the radio.

Also, one effective pass rusher is not going to cut it. Even Matthews couldn't get home often enough to disrupt play. I think this is the flaw I agree with you on. If we could not get to the passer by the 2nd half, we needed to send the house. It also did not help that we tackled like a marching band.

But like Bretsky, if you can come up with a list of games to review that Capers has blown by being too passive, I am willing to look.

[Bossman641]

So let me get this straight Wist.

All year you've been playing the "mismatched players, trying to fit square pegs into a round hole" card, and now you are turning around and saying the players just weren't put into a position to succeed and that Capers is the problem? And this game and the 1996 Championship game are your proof?

[wist43]

Congrats on the great news.

wist, Capers and Tomlin did not coach together on the Steelers. He was in New England last year.

A free release off the LOS is a basic feature of the Steelers zone for an interior receiver covered by a safety of LB. Even if they play short zones tight, its still zone with one interior receiver free to run into the short zone. That is the pass play they want you to take. Challenging the release of a slot receiver who is 3 yards off the LOS is a losing proposition. Too many angles to take.

The problem was that those interior receivers were getting into the middle of the field without being redirected in the route. And when they covered the interior, the X and Ys were getting into the middle with no help coming fast enough. The seam routes I think would have been harder to complete if Bigby plants someone during the game. I still don't know what happened to him. Never heard it on the radio.

Also, one effective pass rusher is not going to cut it. Even Matthews couldn't get home often enough to disrupt play. I think this is the flaw I agree with you on. If we could not get to the passer by the 2nd half, we needed to send the house. It also did not help that we tackled like a marching band.

But like Bretsky, if you can come up with a list of games to review that Capers has blown by being too passive, I am willing to look.

Thanks for congrats on baby Fiona news...I will tell her - she will surely kick - to mama's chagrin

PB... you are right - perhaps that strengthens my case?? lol...

As for games to review.... I studied the 1996 Champ game for many hours, and that is why it comes to mind, but I am not retired,

However, my advocacy for the 3-4 was due in principle to pressure... with Matthews proving to be the answer as the rush ROLB, we're most of the way there... it is only a matter how can the DC screw it up from there??

Yes, we need help in the back end... but does that justify surrender??? What I saw today was surrender... "let's hope we can outscore em-ism"... nauseating.

Can any Packer fan sit back and accept that kind of passivity??? My nature is aggressive... God help you should you ever cross me - it's a switch, life/death/family - between the whistles - were I not a homeless, criminal, drug addicticed, academc - I surely would have been a pro-bowler

Marlon Brando got nothin on me, lol...

What I saw today... there's no excuse for that. I will tell you, I am one hell of a chess player - over 2000 - but, that is a different game; there is time to contemplate; and by nature, in that game, I am defensive by nature, but not chocked by caution - Capers is chocked by caution, if given a choice??? I'll rip your throat out... Capers??? He'd ask you what you'd like with your tea...

[Cheesehead Craig]

The two turnover's on the first three offensive plays put them a big hole before the game even settled in. I'm not going to bash Capers for that.

This is the first year of running the 3-4. They led the league in run D. Now it's time to clean up the back end.

You're nuts to fire Capers and essentiallly start over on D.

Agree 100%

This defense came very far this year compared to last season. Like others have said, let's keep the continuity and get the familiarity and chemistry up.

Changing co-ordinators every year is foolish. Especially when one has done a very good job.

[wist43]

So let me get this straight Wist.

All year you've been playing the "mismatched players, trying to fit square pegs into a round hole" card, and now you are turning around and saying the players just weren't put into a position to succeed and that Capers is the problem? And this game and the 1996 Championship game are your proof?

Dude... they gave up 51 pts

Whatever position of discontent I take, or took... doesn't that put you in the position of defending 51 pts??

Good Lord man... none of us is happy about today. What seperates me from the rest of you homers, is that from the opening defensive snap, I knew the outcome.

You can't play "pussy defense" like that and expect any other outcome... the fact that they made it close is perhaps a testiment to M3's abilities to overcome his DC's shortcomings...

Matthews is the real deal... Woodson had a HOF year... bodes well for the future, but if you come to a playoff game that kind of weak-ass defensive game plan??? Well, that's just 51 pts worth of laughable

And not in a good way...

[Bossman641]

So let me get this straight Wist.

All year you've been playing the "mismatched players, trying to fit square pegs into a round hole" card, and now you are turning around and saying the players just weren't put into a position to succeed and that Capers is the problem? And this game and the 1996 Championship game are your proof?

Dude... they gave up 51 pts

Whatever position of discontent I take, or took... doesn't that put you in the position of defending 51 pts??

Good Lord man... none of us is happy about today. What seperates me from the rest of you homers, is that from the opening defensive snap, I knew the outcome.

You can't play "pussy defense" like that and expect any other outcome... the fact that they made it close is perhaps a testiment to M3's abilities to overcome his DC's shortcomings...

Matthews is the real deal... Woodson had a HOF year... bodes well for the future, but if you come to a playoff game that kind of weak-ass defensive game plan??? Well, that's just 51 pts worth of laughable

And not in a good way...

I'll quote CC above as to why it is even ridiculous to consider getting rid of Capers.

This defense came very far this year compared to last season. Like others have said, let's keep the continuity and get the familiarity and chemistry up.

Changing co-ordinators every year is foolish. Especially when one has done a very good job.

[wist43]

So let me get this straight Wist.

All year you've been playing the "mismatched players, trying to fit square pegs into a round hole" card, and now you are turning around and saying the players just weren't put into a position to succeed and that Capers is the problem? And this game and the 1996 Championship game are your proof?

Dude... they gave up 51 pts

Whatever position of discontent I take, or took... doesn't that put you in the position of defending 51 pts??

Good Lord man... none of us is happy about today. What seperates me from the rest of you homers, is that from the opening defensive snap, I knew the outcome.

You can't play "pussy defense" like that and expect any other outcome... the fact that they made it close is perhaps a testiment to M3's abilities to overcome his DC's shortcomings...

Matthews is the real deal... Woodson had a HOF year... bodes well for the future, but if you come to a playoff game that kind of weak-ass defensive game plan??? Well, that's just 51 pts worth of laughable

And not in a good way...

I'll quote CC above as to why it is even ridiculous to consider getting rid of Capers.

This defense came very far this year compared to last season. Like others have said, let's keep the continuity and get the familiarity and chemistry up.

Changing co-ordinators every year is foolish. Especially when one has done a very good job.

I know they won't fire him... but a mans nature is his nature... Capers is passive - I"d rip his throat out, he'd ask me if i'd like more lemon in my tea.

Today, Kurt Whisenhunt is enjoying his lemon flavored tea...

I dare ya, I dare any of ya... defend 51 pts

[Tony Oday]

This is a post out of emotion....you don't fire Dom after his first year..especially when our D was in the top 2 or 3 most of the year. We need a better group of players in the secondary.

No it's not Capers has been around since... well, since I started studying Buddy Ryans 46 defense

As I said... I know a lot of you guys will site "stats"; but those can be illusory.

Capers does have a history, and I've never liked it... even though I acknowledge he is a very good, and very knowledgable coach.

In some ways it comes down to a persons nature... When his back is against the wall, he is timid - go back and watch the 1996 NFC Championship game - thank God, the opposing HC/DC was Dom Capers... he put us in the SB

I said earlier this week... we would know very quickly if we were to win this game or not based solely on defensive game plan.

It is a testiment to luck, Neil Rackers, and maybe even to M3 and the offense in general that they were able to make it close - b/c from a standpoint of defensive prowess??? We didn't have a chance.

Today, the defense of the Green Bay Packers was an embarrassement... and that falls on Dom Capers.

For those of you who are younger... perhaps you don't know Dom; but, I know Dom, and nothing I saw today suprised me.

Go back and watch the 1996 NFC Championship game...

We easily won that game on our way to our only Championship in the past 40+ years - even though I think we were destined to win that Championship b/c we had a great team - but facing a timid/simplicitic defensive scheme like what Dom Capers trotted out there for the Carolina Panthers... well that certainly made things easier

No... as I said, I think Dom is a good coach, but in the end, he will get you beat in big games. Pitt beating Arizona in last years SB was more a "fluke" on his resume than anything else...

seriously you can be a purple lover we would be ok with that.

[Bossman641]

Nobody can defend today's performance. The entire unit played like shit.

There can certainly be a case made though that it makes a lot more sense to build off the D's performance this year then to tear it down and start over again.

[packerbacker1234]

Bad game plan? They blitzed a lot... thats the players fault for not getting through.


This was year one. Our defense wasn't even suppose to be remotely good in YEAR ONE.

Capers stays, we would be idiots to do otherwise. You think capers had nothing to do with us trading up to get Matthews? We need this off season to really get the pieces in place. What do I mean?

Lack of depth in the secondary. Williams was decent, but he wasn't nearly the shut down guy harris was this year for us. We need backup safties. We also need another DL, and possibly a new OLB to replace Kampman/Jones. Jones showed some flashes, but wasn't even close to the same level as Matthews.

Plus - ANother year for the main group to be together in the scheme and learn. I mean, is he really all that horrible of a game manager and play caller? Is it his fault his players fall over?

You need to give capers one more year. Look at his history - He has a very long history of turning around defenses super fast. Within 2 or 3 years, they are usually one of the best. Forget the oppoents, he has a good track record period. With a year under his belt, he will know how to better utilize more of his players. He used Woodson MASTERFULLY, and he may get defensive palyer of the year beacause of it. Now with some tape, he may be able to do that with even more guys on this defense.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It is like Partial took over Wist's account.

Wist, you are so full of shit, it isn't funny. You studied the 46 defense. LOL Please detail your studies. This is the funniest thing Ty has read in a long time.

P.S. Exactly how many championships did the aggressive defense of Buddy ryan win. Cause, just like you with capers and tomlin, I dont' believe it was his defense..it was the tempering of it thru Ditka.

Left unfettered, the 46 produced NOTHING!

[mraynrand]

This is a ridiculous thread. When they pressured Warner early they didn't get home. When they sat in coverage they got burned.

Coaching can only take you so far. At some point players have to make plays. Four and five man rushes were extremely ineffective today. Had they been, which has nothing to do with coaching, it would have been a much different game.

What he said.

Back it up... any of you!!!!

I defy any of you!!!!

Go ahead, fight me on this... we gave up 51 pts, Dom has a history - plenty of fodder to fight with.

Am I missing something???

I mentioned the '96 NFC Championship Game... was ecstatic with Dom's defensive game plan

Put us in the SB...

51 pts... surely this is Jarret Bush's fault, right???

Your insinuation that Capers's scheme cost Carolina the 1996 championship game is ridiculous--as are your ideas about what TT should do with his DC in 2010. Capers didn't lose the NFCCG in 96, the Panthers lost to a much more talented and experienced team. Look at who they had on offense that year: a young Kerry Collins, a nobody at RB named Anthony Johnson, Wesley Walls and a bunch of average WRs. The defense and special teams were the only things that stood out about that team, and the defensive success they had was a credit to Capers as much or more than it was to their talent, which was not exactly overwhelming.

Fire Capers because the defense gave up 45 points to Arizona? I guess the Cardinals should fire their DC for giving up 45 to GB too then. This was a painful loss, but it is too bad that the amazing near-comeback engineered by Rodgers has to be overshadowed by loose canons calling for everyone's head while remaining totally oblivious to what continuity brings to a team.

Couldn't have said it better. Carolina D was responsible for all 10 points Carolina scored in that game. Carolina offense got dominated by Packer D.

Packer fans want to look at Packer talent and imagine it's so much better than it is. Packers ran out three rookies on D yesterday and have a bunch of journeymen all over their defensive roster. Most of the year, they played above their talent level.