Just me, or does Slocum sound like a fool?

[red]

april is off the board, eagles signed him

but that doesn't mean we can no longer upgrade the position

there has to be a pile of dog shit out in my yard that i can convince to sign with the packers

[Bretsky]

Bedard commented that he highly doubt Slocum will be let go; he thought Campen being let go was possible

[denverYooper]

That's a damn shame.

[Patler]

I know a little about placekicking technique. Probably more than Slocum does. This season I've noticed Crosby committing 3 of place kicking's deadly sins. He rushes. He flys open and (the worst) he errs in his plant. The easiest one to spot is the plant. A soccer kicker should plant right beside the ball. An inch too far forward or back can create a miss. Crosby has been off 6 inches to a foot on various plants this year.

OK, I will ask the obvious question. Were Crosby's steps wrong, resulting in his plant foot mislocations, or did the holder get the ball down in the wrong spot? Perhaps a combination of both?

Several times last year, it was said by reporters watching practices, that there wasn't a decent holder on the team. I'm not convinced that part of the problem isn't in the holds.

[Lurker64]

Why wouldn't Crosby go to a kicking specialist? He really has one thing to do as part of a football team, so what better way to spend the offseason than by perfecting your craft?

If I were an NFL kicker, I'd probably see a kicking specialist every year, even if I were the best kicker in football. I mean, it's not like Tiger Woods (pre-infidelity-related-hiatus) didn't work extensively with a swing coach every year.

[hoosier]

Why wouldn't Crosby go to a kicking specialist? He really has one thing to do as part of a football team, so what better way to spend the offseason than by perfecting your craft?

If I were an NFL kicker, I'd probably see a kicking specialist every year, even if I were the best kicker in football. I mean, it's not like Tiger Woods (pre-infidelity-related-hiatus) didn't work extensively with a swing coach every year.

When it comes to swingin' nobody can teach Tiger a thing.

[pbmax]

Why wouldn't Crosby go to a kicking specialist? He really has one thing to do as part of a football team, so what better way to spend the offseason than by perfecting your craft?

If I were an NFL kicker, I'd probably see a kicking specialist every year, even if I were the best kicker in football. I mean, it's not like Tiger Woods (pre-infidelity-related-hiatus) didn't work extensively with a swing coach every year.

He just might. The story about Jon Ryan (from his agent, so reader beware) was that he was too deferential to simply go on his own to a specialist.

But there is a downside from Crosby's point of view. If he goes against the Coach's advice, then he better succeed, because there will be less support from the staff if he struggles again.

[SnakeLH2006]

Hard to fault the ST coach when the kicker has a 70 yard leg, but easy to blame the coach (see my avatar) when he keeps going to him to get his "confidence" and lose some games. I could see if we were 5-11 or so, but to keep going to Crosby lacks some smarts. Kid couldn't kick the ball threw a wet paper bag lately. That kid cost us games, and you must stop that. I don't care if the kid could kick Chuck Norris' ass at Yhatzee....He's terrible in the clutch and got flak earlier this year when I said it around game 8. He's not a "reliable kicker". I'll take a guy who can kick 42 yarders at will. Crosby sucks.

Blame Slocum all you want. "McCarthy put makeup on the pig. It's still a pig. It's a sexy pig, but McCarthy is the one who kept trying to have sex with it."

I'm only putting quotes on that last bit cuz that is worth someone's sig. It's that good. Credit the Snake, though....or at least say thanx.

[Gunakor]

Hard to fault the ST coach when the kicker has a 70 yard leg, but easy to blame the coach (see my avatar) when he keeps going to him to get his "confidence" and lose some games. I could see if we were 5-11 or so, but to keep going to Crosby lacks some smarts. Kid couldn't kick the ball threw a wet paper bag lately. That kid cost us games, and you must stop that. I don't care if the kid could kick Chuck Norris' ass at Yhatzee....He's terrible in the clutch and got flak earlier this year when I said it around game 8. He's not a "reliable kicker". I'll take a guy who can kick 42 yarders at will. Crosby sucks.

Blame Slocum all you want. McCarthy put makeup on the pig. It's still a pig. It's a sexy pig, but McCarthy is the one who kept trying to have sex with it.

I disagree entirely. Use Ryan as an example. He was garbage while he was here being coached by our joke of a ST's staff. He went to Seattle, got independent help, and became top 10 in the league. The LAST thing I want to see is for Crosby to be let go, be signed by another team that gives him permission to work with a specialist outside the organization during the offseason, and become a top 10 kicker for another team.

The problem for Crosby is that he's not getting any help from his coaches, and he's not being allowed to work with someone who knows what the fuck they are talking about.

The blame should go entirely to Slocum for being so full of himself as to tell Crosby he can't/shouldn't seek help from a competent kicking coach. Slocum is definitely not competent in this area, certainly we can agree on that. If and when Crosby is allowed to work with an actual kicking coach, only then will we know for sure that Crosby sucks. In the meantime, don't expect Crosby to coach himself and say he sucks when he can't do it.

[Fritz]

The larger issue in all this is one Patler has mentioned before: MM's very mixed success in hiring coaches.

When he promotes from within, as he did with V-Bob, I think, and with Campen, I believe, it doesn't work so well. When he hires an established coach like Capers, who then makes his own hires with MM's approval (I think that's how it works), then the operation goes better.

The problem on ST is that it's MM's direct hire. Maybe he should hire someone to do his hiring for him.

Wait. If he did that, then the guy he hires to hire people would probably be a lousy hire. Oh well.

[Noodle]

KY, you've got a lot of posts on this because you have a lot of smart stuff to say about it. I know a bit about kicking, and you've always been dead on with your observations about Crosby.

Patler, it was the plant, not the holds, at Heinz. KY is right, the plants were bad, and KY is right about the reason. If you're playing on a slop field, you have to have less angle in your approach, shorten it, and focus like a MFer on getting a plant and mooth swing through. A good ST coach, knowing he going to the most notoriously slop field in the NFL, would have had Crosby practicing in slop all week to get the technique down.

Also, great analogy, Lurker, to golfers and swing coaches. If I'm an ST coach with no experience kicking, I'd insist on my guy getting a kicking specialist. Pick whoever the kicker wants and support him.

I don't blame Slocum for not knowing kicking, but I do blame him for not getting someone involved who does.

As Clint famously observed, "A man's got to know his limitations." Slocum doesn't.

[Patler]

Patler, it was the plant, not the holds, at Heinz. KY is right, the plants were bad, and KY is right about the reason. If you're playing on a slop field, you have to have less angle in your approach, shorten it, and focus like a MFer on getting a plant and mooth swing through. A good ST coach, knowing he going to the most notoriously slop field in the NFL, would have had Crosby practicing in slop all week to get the technique down.

I agree, but I wasn't referring to the kicks at Heinz field. I was referring to KY's mention of inconsistent foot placements throughout the year. Specifically I referred to the following quote in which I now add emphasis:

This season I've noticed Crosby committing 3 of place kicking's deadly sins. He rushes. He flys open and (the worst) he errs in his plant. The easiest one to spot is the plant. A soccer kicker should plant right beside the ball. An inch too far forward or back can create a miss. Crosby has been off 6 inches to a foot on various plants this year.

When I can, on missed kicks I try to look at the holder's body position and where his hands are relative to his body. This will tend to show if he is placing the ball accurately or not. The kicker expects the ball to be in a specific spot, and measures his steps accordingly. If the holder has to come out of his pre-snap position in order to catch the ball, it becomes more difficult to tell about the placement.. In my opinion, Flynn was less than consistent in his placements even when the snaps were accurate, but I'm not suggesting it was all his fault. The kicker can and should adjust some too.

I am firm believer that truly successful and consistent field goal kicking is a three man operation. The snaps have to be accurate, the holds have to be precise and the kicker has to consistent. Inaccurate or inconsistent snaps can affect timing and can lead to inaccurate ball placements if the holder has to move too much to catch the snap. A holder who doesn't catch cleanly can interrupt timing, and if his placements or ball orientation are inconsistent he forces to kicker to adjust. If the kicker is inconsistent or is forced out of his routine, results will vary.

[sharpe1027]

When I can, on missed kicks I try to look at the holder's body position and where his hands are relative to his body. This will tend to show if he is placing the ball accurately or not. The kicker expects the ball to be in a specific spot, and measures his steps accordingly. If the holder has to come out of his pre-snap position in order to catch the ball, it becomes more difficult to tell about the placement.. In my opinion, Flynn was less than consistent in his placements even when the snaps were accurate, but I'm not suggesting it was all his fault. The kicker can and should adjust some too.

I am firm believer that truly successful and consistent field goal kicking is a three man operation. The snaps have to be accurate, the holds have to be precise and the kicker has to consistent. Inaccurate or inconsistent snaps can affect timing and can lead to inaccurate ball placements if the holder has to move too much to catch the snap. A holder who doesn't catch cleanly can interrupt timing, and if his placements or ball orientation are inconsistent he forces to kicker to adjust. If the kicker is inconsistent or is forced out of his routine, results will vary.

Good analysis by everyone. One thing stands out to me though, the results didn't really vary. From the right hash mark, he kicked it beautifully to almost the same exact spot every time. Too bad that spot was wide right.

I think the misses from the right hash are pretty much on Crosby.

A wise man knows that he knows nothing. Slocum seems to "know" that he knows everything...

[Smidgeon]

When I can, on missed kicks I try to look at the holder's body position and where his hands are relative to his body. This will tend to show if he is placing the ball accurately or not. The kicker expects the ball to be in a specific spot, and measures his steps accordingly. If the holder has to come out of his pre-snap position in order to catch the ball, it becomes more difficult to tell about the placement.. In my opinion, Flynn was less than consistent in his placements even when the snaps were accurate, but I'm not suggesting it was all his fault. The kicker can and should adjust some too.

I am firm believer that truly successful and consistent field goal kicking is a three man operation. The snaps have to be accurate, the holds have to be precise and the kicker has to consistent. Inaccurate or inconsistent snaps can affect timing and can lead to inaccurate ball placements if the holder has to move too much to catch the snap. A holder who doesn't catch cleanly can interrupt timing, and if his placements or ball orientation are inconsistent he forces to kicker to adjust. If the kicker is inconsistent or is forced out of his routine, results will vary.

Good analysis by everyone. One thing stands out to me though, the results didn't really vary. From the right hash mark, he kicked it beautifully to almost the same exact spot every time. Too bad that spot was wide right.

I think the misses from the right hash are pretty much on Crosby.

A wise man knows that he knows nothing. Slocum seems to "know" that he knows everything...

Is that one of those "The more you know, the less you know you know" sort of things?

[sharpe1027]

Is that one of those "The more you know, the less you know you know" sort of things?

Sorta, even the smartest person can look like a fool if they think they know everything.