T.T. gives the media no ammo

[Pugger]

But we just lost a playoff game 51-42 and the opposing quarterback shredded our passing defense.

It's tough to win a playoff game against a dangerous pass happy offense led by a potential HOF quarterback and WR when 3 of your top 5 cornerbacks are on IR.

+1

Our ST was starting to come around as far as our coverage units are concerned. I'm hoping Crosby just had a bad year and that he'll come around in 2010. Unfortunately we had poor punting (it seems like we are still trying to replace Hentrick!) and Jordy Nelson has no business being back there returning kicks and punts! But every team has issues. No team, even the 2 still remaining in the hunt - is perfect. The trick is to have the fewest issues and most wins in Febuary.

[Bretsky]

But we just lost a playoff game 51-42 and the opposing quarterback shredded our passing defense.

It's tough to win a playoff game against a dangerous pass happy offense led by a potential HOF quarterback and WR when 3 of your top 5 cornerbacks are on IR.

Harris is missed; devoid of any quality depth in the secondary we could not afford to lose Harris, or Woodsen.

As for the other two you are noting...neither has really shown much and I'm not convinced we had a capable #4 or #5 to step up if the top players were injured. And we had plenty of time to look for players instead of the developmental squad IMO

[Smidgeon]

But we just lost a playoff game 51-42 and the opposing quarterback shredded our passing defense.

It's tough to win a playoff game against a dangerous pass happy offense led by a potential HOF quarterback and WR when 3 of your top 5 cornerbacks are on IR.

Harris is missed; devoid of any quality depth in the secondary we could not afford to lose Harris, or Woodsen.

As for the other two you are noting...neither has really shown much and I'm not convinced we had a capable #4 or #5 to step up if the top players were injured. And we had plenty of time to look for players instead of the developmental squad IMO

The other two players are nothing, but the argument is that they're (presumably) better than what was on the field. At some point in the season they had shown the coaches they were better players than Bush or Bell at least since both were seeing the field before they were. So even if Lee and Blackman were nothing in general, the idea is they were better than who was on the field, and that has to count for something (even if it's a sliver).

[Gunakor]

But we just lost a playoff game 51-42 and the opposing quarterback shredded our passing defense.

It's tough to win a playoff game against a dangerous pass happy offense led by a potential HOF quarterback and WR when 3 of your top 5 cornerbacks are on IR.

Harris is missed; devoid of any quality depth in the secondary we could not afford to lose Harris, or Woodsen.

As for the other two you are noting...neither has really shown much and I'm not convinced we had a capable #4 or #5 to step up if the top players were injured. And we had plenty of time to look for players instead of the developmental squad IMO

And just who was sitting there unemployed that would have been better than Bush or Bell that we could have simply signed to our roster so that Kurt Warner's magical day wouldn't have happened? A bunch of 50 year old has beens and a bunch of other unprovens just like Pat Lee and Brandon Underwood. I'm not convinced there were any unemployed corners that could have helped us anyway. Solid corners don't just grow on trees waiting to be picked up mid season by any and every team that suffers an injury in their defensive backfield.

You might not be convinced that Underwood and Lee are better players than Bush and Bell, but the coaches were. Hence Underwood and Lee being ahead of Bush and Bell on the depth chart. That you haven't seen them play doesn't make them any worse than Bush or Bell. Can't get much worse than that from my perspective. So call it like it is - 3 of our top 5 corners were on IR and as it was our #6 cornerback to start the season saw extensive playing time against one of the most dangerous passing attacks in football. Shit happens.

[The Leaper]

By that standard, Bill Polian isn't much of a gm either. Event though his eye for talent got the Bills to the Super Bowl four years in a row.

When TT even GETS to a Super Bowl, let me know. Until then, let's stop comparing Thompson to some of the elite executives in the league. My point was in reference to Thompson, who has yet to develop a team that can consistently win 10+ wins a year. How that got twisted into a slight on Polian has me scratching my head.

You don't agree that Thompson has yet to produce a consistent winning roster? Polian did a long time ago...his credentials are obviously far superior to Thompson's. That was my whole point. Thompson is NOT an elite GM yet.

[The Leaper]

If that's your standard to be one of the best, then who are the best? Teams who have won a Super Bowl and consistently won from season to season?

I listed several teams earlier in this thread. The only ones that seem to fit your criteria are New England and Indy. So by "best" or "one of the best" do you mean, then, top two? Top three?

Can any of you read? Seriously. Where the hell did I say Thompson had to WIN a Super Bowl?

IMO, Thompson has yet to build a roster even CAPABLE of winning a title. How anyone can put him in the TOP 5 of NFL GM's is beyond me. Great teams typically have great line play...yet Thompson seems clueless in terms of how to improve our OL. He has to keep hanging on to Clifton and Tauscher because he is unable to assemble any talent himself. We have no depth in the defensive secondary, which is unacceptable if you want to win a title against QBs like Warner, Manning, Brees, Favre, etc. Does a top 5 GM keep BUSH around for as long as Thompson has? I'm not a top 5 GM, and even I know that you can find someone on one of the other 31 practice squads better than Bush. Thompson's handling of the punter situation is another major black mark. He has an annoying habit of creating holes on the roster without someone to fill it.

Thompson still has a ways to go to prove himself in my book. He's not a bad GM. But top 5? You are nuts.

[Joemailman]

There are 2 things that TT has to do to be considered an elite GM. First, he has to put together a quality OL for the long term. This year's OL was held together by 3 guys (Clifton, Tauscher, Wells) whom he inherited. Two of them are on their last legs. He needs to prove he can replace them.

Second, MM has to prove that TT hired the right coach. We know he can get this team into the playoffs. He needs to prove he can get this team into the Super Bowl before TT can be considered an elite GM.

[The Leaper]

As for the other two you are noting...neither has really shown much and I'm not convinced we had a capable #4 or #5 to step up if the top players were injured. And we had plenty of time to look for players instead of the developmental squad IMO

I agree...and the fact that Bush even made the roster is a major concern IMO. That guy is not an NFL caliber DB. He doesn't belong on ANY roster, least of all ours.

[The Leaper]

Second, MM has to prove that TT hired the right coach. We know he can get this team into the playoffs. He needs to prove he can get this team into the Super Bowl before TT can be considered an elite GM.

I agree with this too...McCarthy hasn't shown me enough yet. He loves to hang on to his "friends" rather than upgrading his coaching staff when he has a chance. Our defense was improved with Capers only because McCarthy was FORCED to get a new DC. I'm underwhelmed with some of his assistants.

[pbmax]

Second, MM has to prove that TT hired the right coach. We know he can get this team into the playoffs. He needs to prove he can get this team into the Super Bowl before TT can be considered an elite GM.

I agree with this too...McCarthy hasn't shown me enough yet. He loves to hang on to his "friends" rather than upgrading his coaching staff when he has a chance. Our defense was improved with Capers only because McCarthy was FORCED to get a new DC. I'm underwhelmed with some of his assistants.

Please explained what you mean by forced. By the circumstance of playing horrible defense or by the demand of his GM.

[pbmax]

There are 2 things that TT has to do to be considered an elite GM. First, he has to put together a quality OL for the long term. This year's OL was held together by 3 guys (Clifton, Tauscher, Wells) whom he inherited. Two of them are on their last legs. He needs to prove he can replace them.

Second, MM has to prove that TT hired the right coach. We know he can get this team into the playoffs. He needs to prove he can get this team into the Super Bowl before TT can be considered an elite GM.

That statement about the OL being "saved" by Wells, Tausch and Clifton is a little misleading. Sitton was the best player on the line this year according to McGinn. And Spitz beat Wells for the starting job. Both of those starters are Thompson. Injuries are part of the game and much to the surprise of everyone, Thompson kept Wells, when everyone else had him cut. He gets a point for that as well.

In addition, by the time Clifton returned from injury, they had discovered Lang could play left tackle as a backup better than Colledge. The left tackle catastrophe was partially the result of the coaching staff not knowing that Colledge could not cut it anymore and that Lang needed to be the backup. Thompson should get dinged for not having other options (besides Moll and Meredith), but remember it took Wolf four bodies and four high draft picks (Michels, Verba, Wahle and Clifton) to find a long term replacement for Ruetggers. The real question is why Wolf could find a spot for Bruce Wilkerson and T2 cannot?

Tauscher I will give you. Maybe he is Thompson's Wilkerson. Lang could have held down the fort (Barbre has to be on the coaching staff) but he was also needed at Left Tackle so they were one complete body short. This also makes Breno Giacomini look like a luxury on the roster and inactive each game.

[Fritz]

Giacomini seems to be the mystery tramp in all of this. It's not quite on a par of holding a roster spot open for a backup punter, but it's costly to carry a developmental guy at a position in which you needed immediate help.

Perhaps the coaching staff and GM vastly overestimated Barbre's ability to perform consistently.

[Joemailman]

There are 2 things that TT has to do to be considered an elite GM. First, he has to put together a quality OL for the long term. This year's OL was held together by 3 guys (Clifton, Tauscher, Wells) whom he inherited. Two of them are on their last legs. He needs to prove he can replace them.

Second, MM has to prove that TT hired the right coach. We know he can get this team into the playoffs. He needs to prove he can get this team into the Super Bowl before TT can be considered an elite GM.

Sitton was the best player on the line this year according to McGinn.
I agree

And Spitz beat Wells for the starting job. Both of those starters are Thompson. Injuries are part of the game and much to the surprise of everyone, Thompson kept Wells, when everyone else had him cut. He gets a point for that as well.
It's debatable as to whether Spitz "beat out" Wells. Some would say he was anointed.

In addition, by the time Clifton returned from injury, they had discovered Lang could play left tackle as a backup better than Colledge. The left tackle catastrophe was partially the result of the coaching staff not knowing that Colledge could not cut it anymore and that Lang needed to be the backup. Thompson should get dinged for not having other options (besides Moll and Meredith), but remember it took Wolf four bodies and four high draft picks (Michels, Verba, Wahle and Clifton) to find a long term replacement for Ruetggers. The real question is why Wolf could find a spot for Bruce Wilkerson and T2 cannot?
Largely agree, although the idea of having Colledge as the backup LT did not jibe with MM's stated intention of avoiding a "musical chairs" situation in the event of an injury

Tauscher I will give you. Maybe he is Thompson's Wilkerson. Lang could have held down the fort (Barbre has to be on the coaching staff) but he was also needed at Left Tackle so they were one complete body short. This also makes Breno Giacomini look like a luxury on the roster and inactive each game.
The fact that a third year draft pick like Barbre was worse than Will Whitticker as a rookie has to at least in part be on TT. I'm not even sure what to make of the Giaco situation.

[Bretsky]

If that's your standard to be one of the best, then who are the best? Teams who have won a Super Bowl and consistently won from season to season?

I listed several teams earlier in this thread. The only ones that seem to fit your criteria are New England and Indy. So by "best" or "one of the best" do you mean, then, top two? Top three?

Can any of you read? Seriously. Where the hell did I say Thompson had to WIN a Super Bowl?

IMO, Thompson has yet to build a roster even CAPABLE of winning a title. How anyone can put him in the TOP 5 of NFL GM's is beyond me. Great teams typically have great line play...yet Thompson seems clueless in terms of how to improve our OL. He has to keep hanging on to Clifton and Tauscher because he is unable to assemble any talent himself. We have no depth in the defensive secondary, which is unacceptable if you want to win a title against QBs like Warner, Manning, Brees, Favre, etc. Does a top 5 GM keep BUSH around for as long as Thompson has? I'm not a top 5 GM, and even I know that you can find someone on one of the other 31 practice squads better than Bush. Thompson's handling of the punter situation is another major black mark. He has an annoying habit of creating holes on the roster without someone to fill it.

Thompson still has a ways to go to prove himself in my book. He's not a bad GM. But top 5? You are nuts.

winner winner chicken dinner IMO

[pbmax]

There are 2 things that TT has to do to be considered an elite GM. First, he has to put together a quality OL for the long term. This year's OL was held together by 3 guys (Clifton, Tauscher, Wells) whom he inherited. Two of them are on their last legs. He needs to prove he can replace them.

Second, MM has to prove that TT hired the right coach. We know he can get this team into the playoffs. He needs to prove he can get this team into the Super Bowl before TT can be considered an elite GM.

Sitton was the best player on the line this year according to McGinn.
I agree

And Spitz beat Wells for the starting job. Both of those starters are Thompson. Injuries are part of the game and much to the surprise of everyone, Thompson kept Wells, when everyone else had him cut. He gets a point for that as well.
It's debatable as to whether Spitz "beat out" Wells. Some would say he was anointed.

In addition, by the time Clifton returned from injury, they had discovered Lang could play left tackle as a backup better than Colledge. The left tackle catastrophe was partially the result of the coaching staff not knowing that Colledge could not cut it anymore and that Lang needed to be the backup. Thompson should get dinged for not having other options (besides Moll and Meredith), but remember it took Wolf four bodies and four high draft picks (Michels, Verba, Wahle and Clifton) to find a long term replacement for Ruetggers. The real question is why Wolf could find a spot for Bruce Wilkerson and T2 cannot?
Largely agree, although the idea of having Colledge as the backup LT did not jibe with MM's stated intention of avoiding a "musical chairs" situation in the event of an injury

Tauscher I will give you. Maybe he is Thompson's Wilkerson. Lang could have held down the fort (Barbre has to be on the coaching staff) but he was also needed at Left Tackle so they were one complete body short. This also makes Breno Giacomini look like a luxury on the roster and inactive each game.
The fact that a third year draft pick like Barbre was worse than Will Whitticker as a rookie has to at least in part be on TT. I'm not even sure what to make of the Giaco situation.

The Spitz/Wells coverage was a mixed bag of info. But McGinn said sometime in the middle of the year that Spitz had never looked so effective as he did at center. Given his draft round, I am assuming he was capable of more things than the very steady Wells. But the only coverage we got about it during the preseason was that Spitz seemed to be doing fine and Wells had never looked better. Then everyone expected Wells to be cut. Did they believe your take or was Spitz better and they didn't want to seem to slam Wells publicly after a very hard offseason where he did nothing wrong?

Everyone on the line has to have at least ONE other spot they could start in a pinch. There are only 10 lineman and only seven or eight of them are active on game day. Only the Left Tackle and Center are likely not to have to slide in case of injury.

I think the musical chairs line was meant to include training camp. In times past, the team had lineman regularly practicing at three and even four spots in some cases. He wanted practice to more closely mirror what they would be called upon to do in the season. Even in the non-musical chairs training camp, Lang played 3 spots and Colledge did get some time at the very end at LT.

Worse than Whitticker perhaps, but its a different position. He had no problem run blocking. It was entirely a matter of pass protection. And at RT, he was more exposed than a Guard.