NFL Policy on Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances 2007

[sharpe1027]

Actually, it wasn't the NFL drug policy that did this to the Williams duo. The NFL drug policy specifically outlined that the supplement industry is not regulated by the government and cannot be trusted even to contain what it says is in the bottle. They did warn them about all companies jsut like star caps.

What did the Williams' go do? Exactly what the NFL warned them against.


Now that it's over, star caps is busted, but i guarantee there is another one on the shelf somewhere that is doing the same thing.

NFL players can either avoid them or use them at their own risk. There is a good chance the bottle or brand they buy is not tainted, but if it is, they signed an agreement saying they understand they cannot be trusted and will be suspended if it happens.

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

[Patler]

Actually, it wasn't the NFL drug policy that did this to the Williams duo. The NFL drug policy specifically outlined that the supplement industry is not regulated by the government and cannot be trusted even to contain what it says is in the bottle. They did warn them about all companies jsut like star caps.

What did the Williams' go do? Exactly what the NFL warned them against.


Now that it's over, star caps is busted, but i guarantee there is another one on the shelf somewhere that is doing the same thing.

NFL players can either avoid them or use them at their own risk. There is a good chance the bottle or brand they buy is not tainted, but if it is, they signed an agreement saying they understand they cannot be trusted and will be suspended if it happens.

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

How many other employers with drug policies are expected to do their employees due diligence for them on every over the counter drug or food supplement they might take? Time to place responsibility for what they take solely on the person taking it. These are adults after all.

[sharpe1027]

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

How many other employers with drug policies are expected to do their employees due diligence for them on every over the counter drug or food supplement they might take? Time to place responsibility for what they take solely on the person taking it. These are adults after all.

Anyone that has knowledge of a controlled substance being found where it should not be shows poor judgment if they chose not act on that knowledge. It really has nothing to do with the players, it is a health issue. Common sense says you warn the public about the potential dangers.

[Patler]

Anyone that has knowledge of a controlled substance being found where it should not be shows poor judgment if they chose not act on that knowledge. It really has nothing to do with the players, it is a health issue. Common sense says you warn the public about the potential dangers.

That's not the NFL's job, nor any other employers. That's what the FDA, etc. are for. There is probably a liability issue there too that employers want to avoid.

[pbmax]

Actually, it wasn't the NFL drug policy that did this to the Williams duo. The NFL drug policy specifically outlined that the supplement industry is not regulated by the government and cannot be trusted even to contain what it says is in the bottle. They did warn them about all companies jsut like star caps.

What did the Williams' go do? Exactly what the NFL warned them against.


Now that it's over, star caps is busted, but i guarantee there is another one on the shelf somewhere that is doing the same thing.

NFL players can either avoid them or use them at their own risk. There is a good chance the bottle or brand they buy is not tainted, but if it is, they signed an agreement saying they understand they cannot be trusted and will be suspended if it happens.

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

How many other employers with drug policies are expected to do their employees due diligence for them on every over the counter drug or food supplement they might take? Time to place responsibility for what they take solely on the person taking it. These are adults after all.

Certainly true in the abstract, typical case. But once the NFL came into possession of of such information, why did they sit on it?

No one expects them to test everything. But they opened the can of worms by testing Star Caps on their own initiative. And judging by Pat Williams testimony, they may have done so because team staff (in Williams' case, the Buffalo trainers) had told players that the stuff was safe for weight loss. And they clearly suspected something was amiss since they did not suspend the previous group of positives that could be attributed to Star Caps.

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?

This situation stinks and there is something missing. Whether that something would exonerate the Williams is doubtful. But something else seems to be at play. Both federal and state judges have been surprised at the level of mistrust and secrecy on both sides.

And I think the broader issue is what DO colleges and NFL teams provide for supplements that are considered safe and legal? Because its not advances in dumbbells that have produced 300 lbs athletes in abundance over the last 20-30 years.

[Patler]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?

Do we know that they didn't?

[twoseven]

if these guys were getting nabbed for something they got at the Piggly Wiggly i might feel sorry for them. they got in trouble for taking something to try and (at worst) slim their fat asses down a bit after their own laziness got them in need of some weight loss to begin with. whether or not they were masking something else is irrelevant to me. the minute you take something that is meant to illicit a faster repsonse to help you (fill in the blank) you should be 100% liable for doing your own homework as to what is in it and what may get you in to trouble. since they couldn't slim down the old fashioned way, they chose to 'cheat' a bit and pop some pills. fine, do your damn research then like most of the rest of us that use supplements that don't get paid millions to play football and hopefully stay ellgibile to play each week. better yet, conatct a team or league official and figure it out together. get a busy signal? call them back a few dozen times until you get it right, or is a potential 4 game suspension not enough motivation?

in my opinion, them staying in the best possible shape is a job skill. the get paid a shitload of money to do this job. so not taking the necessary steps to clear yourself of any trouble before hand is completely inexcusable when you start popping pills that can have a direct effect on your job. are they children?

it doesn't matter what i take, i have no banned lists to worry about, but i still manage to read the friggin labels and do my own homework before i put anything into my body that is outside of your everyday grocery items. i do it for simple safety rules and because i want to know what i am swallowing and what it can do to me. they have many millions of additonal reasons to figure this same stuff out. they deserve 4 games for plain old laziness or stupidity or arrogance or all of the above or whatever reason they have for not caring enough to be smarter about the decision they made. just my opinion.

[sharpe1027]

That's not the NFL's job, nor any other employers. That's what the FDA, etc. are for. There is probably a liability issue there too that employers want to avoid.

Then it should have been reported to the FDA, ect., immediately. I find it disturbing that people would think it is OK to sit on this type of information simply because it is not their job. Basic decency and concern for other people's well being should kick in at some point.

[sharpe1027]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?

Do we know that they didn't?

Yep, it came out in court.

[Patler]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?

Do we know that they didn't?

Yep, it came out in court.

I hadn't seen that, but I will certainly take your word for it.

[RashanGary]

My understanding is that the NFL found this in players systems in 2005 and 2006. The players who tested positive claimed they took star caps and it does not show up on the label. The NFL tested to see if that was true. They found out it was.

In 2007, they added appendix F to their Steroid and related substance policy, which specifically warned about diuretics not being regulated by the federal government and not being able to trust what is in the bottle. They sent out letters to all of the players and all of the teams about the inherent dangers about taking supplements because you can never be sure what is in the bottle, even if it says one thing. .

These guys got that letter. Their teams got letters. They signed the policy. Outside of calling out starcaps directy, they went above and beyond their responsiblity to warn these guys.

[RashanGary]

And I don't think the NFL wants their players to stop taking starcaps specifically. They want them to stop taking supplements because the whole industry is unregulated and dangerous.

I think it's true that they sort of let these guys be an example or play "gotchya" like the judge said. Did it have possible dangers? Maybe. Was it ethical? Maybe not.

But, in the end nobody got hurt and without this happening, there was no way to get it through the players skulls that they should not be taking supplements. They were warned and kept doing it. Now the NFL got it's point across and as far as I'm concerned, that's what it takes with these guys. They just don't listen.

I compare it to letting your kid learn a lesson. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to warn them, and then let them find out for themselves if they don't listen. That's what we have here, a couple cocky kids who don't head warnings and a league that is sick of babying it's employees. It's time they take some responsibility for their own actions. Good for the NFL

[hoosier]

And I don't think the NFL wants their players to stop taking starcaps specifically. They want them to stop taking supplements because the whole industry is unregulated and dangerous.

I think it's true that they sort of let these guys be an example or play "gotchya" like the judge said. Did it have possible dangers? Maybe. Was it ethical? Maybe not.

But, in the end nobody got hurt and without this happening, there was no way to get it through the players skulls that they should not be taking supplements. They were warned and kept doing it. Now the NFL got it's point across and as far as I'm concerned, that's what it takes with these guys. They just don't listen.

I compare it to letting your kid learn a lesson. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to warn them, and then let them find out for themselves if they don't listen. That's what we have here, a couple cocky kids who don't head warnings and a league that is sick of babying it's employees. It's time they take some responsibility for their own actions. Good for the NFL

I don't agree. Bad analogy. The players are not children and the NFL is not a parent. In this case the NFL becomes aware of a problem related to a specific product that certain players are known to be likely to take. Individual players do not have the time or resources to test legal but non FDA approved supplements. If the league becomes aware of a specific problem it should be sharing whatever knowledge it has with players. By withholding this knowledge, or by publicizing it in an intentionally vague way ("diuretics"), the league creates the impression that it was waiting for somebody to take it so they could make an example of them. Why not just issue a memo stating that diuretics in general should be treated with great suspicion because Starcaps in particular has been found to contain X?

[Guiness]

it doesn't matter what i take, i have no banned lists to worry about, but i still manage to read the friggin labels

I agree with what you're saying in pricipal - but a big part of the problem here was that Starcaps had stuff in it that wasn't on the label.

However, I still find them at fault. I remember my grade 12 (Canadian) law, where they explained different types of laws, and that you don't always have to have intent to break a law. With some laws, it's up to you to make sure you aren't breaking it. The example given was duck hunting - in some cases, you're not allowed to use decoys. If you get caught hunting with them, you're at fault, and saying 'I didn't put them out, they were here when I got here, I guess' is not a defense. It's up to you to search the area and make sure there are no decoys BEFORE you start hunting.

I would say this is the same sort of thing. It was up to them to make sure the supplements were clean, and they certainly make enough money to have them sent away and independently tested.

There are a couple of things that are interesting from the other side though. Something else that is at issue is how long it took the NFL to advise them that the had failed the test. Minn law says the employer has three days to notify them? That certainly didn't happen, they sat on the info a lot longer than that.

[Patler]

If the league becomes aware of a specific problem it should be sharing whatever knowledge it has with players. By withholding this knowledge, or by publicizing it in an intentionally vague way ("diuretics"), the league creates the impression that it was waiting for somebody to take it so they could make an example of them. Why not just issue a memo stating that diuretics in general should be treated with great suspicion because Starcaps in particular has been found to contain X?

I disagree. If you specifically identify some, then players will argue they assumed others were OK. If you simply say "diuretics" they are on notice for the risk in taking any diuretic.

If you are on notice for all diuretics, why is it necessary to specifically identify one? Apparently the league preferred them to avoid all of them.