NFL Policy on Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances 2007

[MadScientist]

And I don't think the NFL wants their players to stop taking starcaps specifically. They want them to stop taking supplements because the whole industry is unregulated and dangerous.

I think it's true that they sort of let these guys be an example or play "gotchya" like the judge said. Did it have possible dangers? Maybe. Was it ethical? Maybe not.

But, in the end nobody got hurt and without this happening, there was no way to get it through the players skulls that they should not be taking supplements. They were warned and kept doing it. Now the NFL got it's point across and as far as I'm concerned, that's what it takes with these guys. They just don't listen.

I compare it to letting your kid learn a lesson. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to warn them, and then let them find out for themselves if they don't listen. That's what we have here, a couple cocky kids who don't head warnings and a league that is sick of babying it's employees. It's time they take some responsibility for their own actions. Good for the NFL

In this case the NFL becomes aware of a problem related to a specific product that certain players are known to be likely to take. Individual players do not have the time or resources to test legal but non FDA approved supplements. If the league becomes aware of a specific problem it should be sharing whatever knowledge it has with players. By withholding this knowledge, or by publicizing it in an intentionally vague way ("diuretics"), the league creates the impression that it was waiting for somebody to take it so they could make an example of them. Why not just issue a memo stating that diuretics in general should be treated with great suspicion because Starcaps in particular has been found to contain X?

The league likely did not test all products, so the blanket warning about the diuretics makes sense. A specific warning may give the impression that the league is checking on things and warning when it finds problems. Furthermore, if they somehow made a mistake and warned players specifically against a safe product, it could open up new levels of trouble, since they are in effect accusing a manufacturer of an illegal activity.

[hoosier]

I think it is fine to say that, as far as the NFL is concerned, the Williams boys are responsible for whatever they put in their body. And the suspension seems to me a reasonable price to pay if they screw up. But that does not mean that the NFL cannot also have a responsibility to keep players informed about potential problems like this to the best of its ability, and I think in that respect the NFL as employer has repeatedly failed in its responsibility (with lack of adequate pension plans, with lack of attention to long-term health risks associated with concussions, and so on). It is very one-sided to say that Pat Williams is a victim of his own laziness. He may well be too lazy to meet his weight ceiling without supplements, but the industry has created a demand for human beings who are essentially immovable objects, and in that sense I see the lack of full disclosure about Star Caps as part of the NFL's long history of short sightedness about the health of its players.

[twoseven]

it doesn't matter what i take, i have no banned lists to worry about, but i still manage to read the friggin labels

I agree with what you're saying in pricipal - but a big part of the problem here was that Starcaps had stuff in it that wasn't on the label.

However, I still find them at fault. I remember my grade 12 (Canadian) law, where they explained different types of laws, and that you don't always have to have intent to break a law. With some laws, it's up to you to make sure you aren't breaking it. The example given was duck hunting - in some cases, you're not allowed to use decoys. If you get caught hunting with them, you're at fault, and saying 'I didn't put them out, they were here when I got here, I guess' is not a defense. It's up to you to search the area and make sure there are no decoys BEFORE you start hunting.

I would say this is the same sort of thing. It was up to them to make sure the supplements were clean, and they certainly make enough money to have them sent away and independently tested.

There are a couple of things that are interesting from the other side though. Something else that is at issue is how long it took the NFL to advise them that the had failed the test. Minn law says the employer has three days to notify them? That certainly didn't happen, they sat on the info a lot longer than that.

i agree. and it would suck if you took something and got screwed by a mistake ingredient. for me it comes down to 'why did they choose to swallow what they chose to swallow'.

apparently they chose to swallow something rather than get on a treadmill or say no to that extra helping of food. it's easy to pull out all the legalities and fine print once they are already in trouble, something that has happened adnaseum. my issue is with their intentions from the onset and how they chose to go about cutting weight, and ultimately what they chose to swallow.

http://www.dietpillcritic.com/diet-pills/starcaps/

http://www.criticalorie.com/2008/starcaps-review/

http://hubpages.com/hub/Starcap-Diet-Pills-Exposed

whenever i am researching any supplement i do a simple internet search of a as many sites as i need to to determine how effective they may be, what they may contain, etc. i look for as many non-baised reviews as i can find so as to make hopefully an educated decision. from my searches Starcaps seems a crock of shit, like it has no chance of working at all. one site after another explains in simple detail how the ingredients in the product do not contribute to wieghtloss. so once again, just from these claims alone i wouldn't bother with this product. so why did a couple professional players take something that seems more fiction than fact when there are other alternatives out there that do actually work? that it turns out that things they took are also masking steroids in some cases just adds more stink to the smell for me.

i guess if they took somethnig that is noted for actually contributing to weightloss it would be easier for me to understand. sounds like they took a bottle of crap that didn't help them with weightloss, but it did get them into trouble. very strange. makes you wonder who these guys get their input from.

i can still remember kevin williams needing to sit and take oxygen for quite a few minutes after he took a turnover against DAL back for a TD some years back (turkey day game, maybe?). all i could think as he went on and on not catching his breath was how horrible his conidtioning program must be. this guy was on the bench for a long time not recovering. i know, he's a heavy guy, but i have seen plenty of big dudes recover after 5-10 minutes or so, williams did not, it was kind of a scary sight. he needs more than just a good lawyer and some pills, dude needs a new training routine.

[pbmax]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?

Do we know that they didn't?

I will need to dig, but I think someone questioned the FDA (or the USDA, whichever administration was looking into it after the news was leaked) and they did not have a complaint on file.

[pbmax]

In 2007, they added appendix F to their Steroid and related substance policy, which specifically warned about diuretics not being regulated by the federal government and not being able to trust what is in the bottle.

Not quite. Diuretics (like Bumetanide) ARE regulated by the Federal Government like all other controlled substances. Supplement is the word you are looking for as they are not tested by the Feds.

[pbmax]

PFT has the date that Star Caps production was shut down here:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2008/10/30/starcaps-pulls-the-plug/

in Twin Cities paper. Basically at the end of October 2008.

Interestingly, there is an research paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18093421 mentioned in the article in which a study at the University of Utah found bumetanide in Star Caps. In 2007. How this did not launch action by the FDA (considering they have jurisdiction over prescription drugs, is curious).

Not necessarily coincidentally, one of the testing labs used by the NFL is in Utah I think. If anyone comes up with the facility, it would be interesting if it was the same center. For the testing in the article, the lab used was the Center for Human Toxicology at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City.

Still looking for the FDA investigation info.

[pbmax]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/league-admits-inconsistent-treatment-of-starcaps-users/

OK, one conspiracy down, one still kicking. The testing lab used by the NFL for Star Caps was Aegis Sciences Corporation, not the Toxicology Lab at the University of Utah.

But as for the FDA:

"Mr. Crouch, a toxicologist at Aegis, found Bumetanide in StarCaps and informed [Adolpho] Birch and Dr. Lombardo of the results," Judge Larson wrote. "In November 2006, Mr. Crouch volunteered to notify the FDA that StarCaps contained Bumetanide. Dr. Lombardo agreed that the FDA should be notified. Birch, however, claimed responsibility for warning the FDA. Birch never did so."

[RashanGary]

The league likely did not test all products, so the blanket warning about the diuretics makes sense. A specific warning may give the impression that the league is checking on things and warning when it finds problems. Furthermore, if they somehow made a mistake and warned players specifically against a safe product, it could open up new levels of trouble, since they are in effect accusing a manufacturer of an illegal activity.

This is a great post. Now these guys know it's on them. Let's see if they go out using other supplements or if they learn their lesson and avoid that whole sketchy industry.

Time will tell. We'll see how dumb these guys are.

[RashanGary]

The NFL trains these children about going to clubs, guns, dangerous situations, sex, drugs, supplements. . . .

The NFL probably knows a particular night club in New York is riddled with problems, but is it their responsibility to tell every player about club superskank's reputation? They're already going above and beyond with how much they educate these guys. They went above and beyond to warn these guys about taking supplements like starcaps.

These guys still go out and do these things over and over and over. At some point, the responsiblity is on the person. It's pathetic how many people want to blame someone else for their own decisions and actions.

Don't want rape charges, stop pressuring women to have sex with you. Don't want do have drug and alcohol suspensions, don't use drugs and alcohol. Don't want to get caught with illegal diuretics in you system? Don't take supplements that your employer warns you are untrustable.

Maybe now these irresponsible, blame everyone else for their own bad decision making children can wake up and realize they're responsible for their decisions and actions.

Bravo to the NFL for holding it's employees accountable for their own decisions and actions. They should be commended for setting a good, high standard of personal responsibility in a society where blaming others for our own decisions is standard. I can't believe some of the things people are saying on this. How were you raised? Big brother gonna look out for your every move?

[Patler]

But as for the FDA:

"Mr. Crouch, a toxicologist at Aegis, found Bumetanide in StarCaps and informed [Adolpho] Birch and Dr. Lombardo of the results," Judge Larson wrote. "In November 2006, Mr. Crouch volunteered to notify the FDA that StarCaps contained Bumetanide. Dr. Lombardo agreed that the FDA should be notified. Birch, however, claimed responsibility for warning the FDA. Birch never did so."

Not arguing, just commenting, it seems to me like the lab would be the proper party to notify the FDA, not some guy in the league office. The lab could answer questions on their procedures and results. All Birch would have is the lab's report.

Does the lab have any less repsonsibility to the public than the league?
Does the lab, as the technical expert, have more responsibility to the public?

[RashanGary]

It's so funny. The NFL warns these guys not to take supplements because they are not regulated and cannot be trusted. The players go and take supplements that turn out to be untrustable.

And now there's an argument that the players are victims because the NFL didn't do more to protect them.

Please. Protect yourself like 99% of the other NFL players did.

[RashanGary]

This isn't a situation where the NFL wronged it's employees. 5 or 6 players thought they were above the warning. The other 1700 players showed personal responsibility by paying attention to their employer and using smart, safe training options that the NFL recommends.

This is a situation where you say good for almost all NFL players for being responsible. Good for the NFL for giving it's employees education for how to be responsible (whether people here realize it or not, warning against supplements is more helpful than warning against starcaps). It's a few players who screwed up. That's what this is about.

[pbmax]

How about the NFL's responsibility to be a responsible corporate citizen? Have they no ethical obligation to report the findings? Korey Stringer died after taking unregulated ephedra. How many people were put at risk taking an unregulated diuretic?

And try this on for size. The NFL tested Star Caps and did not suspend the first waves of players that tested positive for Bumetanide because teams were giving the players the go ahead to take them. Pat Williams covered this in his testimony and it has yet to be contradicted.

The next question I have is why the FDA didn't poke its head into this in 2007 when the University of Utah Toxicology Lab found Bumetanide in Star Caps?

[twoseven]

Korey Stringer died after taking unregulated ephedra. How many people were put at risk taking an unregulated diuretic?

PB, i am going to have to politely disagree with this one in part. Ephedrine was regulated at and before the time Stringer abused ephedra and died as a result of complications aided by taking a drug that eleveates your heart rate. I know because i was taking stacks of it too for quite a few years before Stringer, many times more potent than what Stringer and a few others were on before they perished. i was taking about 300% times more in dosage than Korey 6 days a week, 3 times per day (with 600mg of caffiene and an aspirin in each single serving to boot) for years. It was at the time required that you would produce ID to even buy it, stating your age and where you lived. Not every state sold it, those that did has strict guidelines saying what ratio of it you could even get with other asthma related drugs that were mixed with it. Ephedra was the much weaker version, that may be up for debate as to how easy you could get it through many different OTCs like a Ripped Fuel at a GNC. But i do believe you had to show proof of age at least at a GNC to get it. i could be wrong.

Meth labs were already running and using the same ephedrine drug as their key component, the Feds were already cracking down hard on anything and everything containing the ingredients, making it harder and harder as the years went by to get this drug which for years was sold just about everywhere. Nobody could get it without stealing it or buying it illegally.

Korey Stringer died because he was severely overweight, overworking himself on a desert hot day, dehydrating himself, already a heart condition risk...and then added ephedrine to his system which kicked his heart rate up another 20 beats per minute on top of the already high risk conditions he put on himself due to his way of life. That pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles did the same stupid things while taking a heart elevating drug and died as well. That dumbass was told to cut weight while training in FLA. He starved himself for days on end, ran miles and miles, dehydrated himself..and then took plenty of ECA (ephedrine, caffiene, and aspirin stacks) on top of this suicidal behavior which just added to the stupid things he was already doing and eventually cashed out because of it.

But lo and behold, after they died the nation focused on ephederine as the big cuplrit in the equation, pretty much ignoring the idiotic behavior they wre doing long before they pushed it too far.

Many, many people had been using epehdrine for years before these incidents took place, and knew full well what the drug posed for you by way of risk and reward. If you didn't know it took just 5 minutes on the interent to figure it all out becuase 100% of the info i am talking about was there for everyone to read. Regulations were already in place nationwide, yet death still occured because these people abused and missused a drug that is intended for asthma sufferers. They did it to lose weight faster, they did it to themselves. It is no one else's fault.

The Williams' are in the same grey area of fooling around with something to try and get results faster (because they weren't exercising properly to begin with), taking a substance that you can find out plenty about before putting it in your mouth. In the end it is still their adult responsibility if they are going to try and take short cuts to figure out the risks involved. Starcaps with a little research done online are proven to help reduce NO weight based on their clearly listed and fairly common ingredients. Whatever was in there that was NOT listed is to me a moot point because what was listed was proven to do absolutely nothing to help them with what they were looking for. Why they chose to take them then is a mystery.

[twoseven]

When Mark McGwire got busted with a bottle of Androstenedione in his locker, the first thing I thought was, 'that shit does little to nothing to begin with to aid in the things Mark was supposedly looking for'. it was a cheap and futile attempt to try and sneak the results that actual illegal Anabolics were going to give you. Andro did not do much of anything for you, anyone who was using it could attest to this, and there were plenty of us out there trying out this OTC 'supplement'. was he just using Andro to mask his actual use of (what we now know were) real Anabolics? back then i don't think anyone was putting forth this theory becuase too many people (that knew little about Andro's actual effectiveness) made the mistake of thinking Andro actually did work like an illegal anabolic, and many wanted to believe Mark was only doing Andro and not something else. but today now that we know the real Big Mac story it sure does make a lot more sense. the dirty little reality in the health and fitness world is that legal supplements and illegal and highly effective anabolic drugs are not that far apart in actual price. so, if you think you can get away with it you are better off injecting the real thing. you just need to beat the system somehow and not get caught.