Packer Player Under Investigation In Sexual Assault

[pittstang5]

I don't have time to read all 7 pages of this thread and probably don't know all of the facts But no matter how you slice it, this looks bad for Underwood and whoever else was or might have been involved....not to mention the Packers as a whole. Hasn't anyone learned from Big Ben....you just don't put yourself in those types of situations....Period.

[MJZiggy]

First of all, until we have all the facts it's just speculation. Secondly, to say that the women are older and should know better has nothing to do with this. When someone says no, age doesn't matter. Then again, of all the years i've known you, your derogatory comments toward women certainly do not surprise me.

This is the new sexism. Getting all protective and worked up enough to throw mud over some speculation by a guy on the internet who has a picture of Borat for a face. Women make up more than half of the world population. They don't need your protection--Is it you or JH that is treating them like the weaker sex?

First things first, there's this. Women may outnumber men, but men still hold the power in this society and attempts to put women down and objectify them are a way of holding them out of power and yes, should be reacted to. The reaction is not sexism, the assuming that a woman who makes such an accusation is a whore (even though in this instance it does appear possibly to be true, you don't need to assume it from the get-go) is sexism by objectification. It intimates without saying as much that it's ok to assault them because they're less than you are. If I can't assault you, you can't assault me. If I put on a dildo and ram it up your ass, it's assault and (unless you're into that kind of thing) you're not a whore for making the accusation.

Now then, where was I? Oh right. The whores don't have a case and I kind of figured when they questioned Underwood and then let him go that the evidence might not be very strong or they'd have charged him that night. I have no problem with CMIII or any of the other guys disapproving of this behavior, though I wonder if they were disapproving while the women were at the party. The thing is, even if this were the first time something like this happened, and I'm not saying it isn't, he could easily wind up divorced from someone he could have had a wonderful marriage with otherwise. There is trust that could be irrevocably broken. Pissed doesn't cover that. I'm sure she's pissed, heartbroken and likely somewhat devastated. I feel really bad for her as she appears to be the one true victim here.

Tar, there's a world of difference between this and Favre, in that Favre, in his drunken womanizing days was not yet married to Deanna. It was after he'd gone to rehab and dried out that they married--I believe the year of the Superbowl win (or possibly the year after) when she left his bags on the doorstep. It was then that he cleaned up his act. Further, I hardly think that Favre would have needed to go to a place like "Chubbies" to get laid in his heyday.

[falco]

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A TIME OUT OUT FROM THE STUPIDITY

This is coming from the guy who condones drunk driving as long as it is out in the country......

[falco]

All morons that can't decide when to call a cab should be encouraged to ride a motorcycle if they insist on driving drunk.

Driving the back roads under the stars is not the same as a DUI in big city traffic.


Let's get some facts straight before you start demanding the impossible of the guy.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Wow.

Driving in the wilderness

where there are no cabs

or streetlights

is different.


If you believe it is the same offense to drive with too much alcohol in Antarctica as it is in Tokyo, one can understand how inexcusable itis not to call a cab in Antarctica; and why zero tolerance policies come about.

Risk v. reward human decision making.

If there are no police to enforce traffic laws in the wilderness of Antartica has a crime taken place?

Havner was never charged with a crime, much to your bitter disappointment.

If you never have lived in an environment where people work out their own problems without bureaucrats and government institutions, I really pity you.

[Scott Campbell]

I got a DUI in Antarctica once.

[falco]

I got a DUI in Antarctica once.

[CaliforniaCheez]

I got a DUI in Antarctica once.

From a nazi named falco I bet.

[Tarlam!]

Tar, there's a world of difference between this and Favre, in that Favre, in his drunken womanizing days was not yet married to Deanna. It was after he'd gone to rehab and dried out that they married--I believe the year of the Superbowl win (or possibly the year after) when she left his bags on the doorstep. It was then that he cleaned up his act. Further, I hardly think that Favre would have needed to go to a place like "Chubbies" to get laid in his heyday.

So, you're suggesting the fact that they lived in a defacto marriage (that was clearly intended to consummated) and had a baby girl in 1989 is irrelevant?

You're suggesting that B. Lorenzo gets a pass because he didn't need to pay for his adultery or that his preferred hunting grounds were classier establishments than Chubby's?

You know I love you Ziggy, but your double standards are just as nausiating to me as those of the others.

[Tarlam!]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818820b6&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Police chief says women's changing statements hamper assault case

NFL.com Wire Reports
Police don't plan to recommend pressing charges against a Green Bay Packers player accused of sexual assault by two women who changed their statements, the chief overseeing the investigation said Monday.

Lake Delton Police Chief Tom Dorner said he expects to forward the investigation's findings to prosecutors by Tuesday, but he believes they would have a hard time proving a case.

"I think it's going to be a problem because there's too much information that contradicts between the alleged victims and the alleged suspect," Dorner said.

Officers were called early Saturday to a condominium in Lake Delton where seven Packers players were staying during a charity golf event. The women initially told investigators they were sexually assaulted by more than one Packer while other players held them down.

After the players were questioned, the women changed their statements to say only one person assaulted them, Dorner said Monday.

"It's obviously troubling they would make that statement originally and shortly into the investigation change it, a pretty important piece of information," Dorner said. "... It is weird."

Police cleared six of the seven players of wrongdoing. A seventh player whom police declined to identify and who hasn't been arrested remains under investigation.

Packers officials and teammates also refused to name the player involved, but the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, citing three sources familiar with the case, reported that it is second-year cornerback Brandon Underwood.

The six players who were cleared were quarterback Matt Flynn, linebackers Clay Matthews and Brad Jones, fullback Korey Hall, guard Josh Sitton and safety Khalil Jones.

Police also declined to identify the women, saying only that both are from Milwaukee. One is 31 years old, the other 33.

Sauk County District Attorney Patricia Barrett didn't immediately respond to a phone message seeking comment.

The women were examined at different hospitals by nurses trained in gathering sexual assault evidence, Dorner said. He said he didn't know the results. No weapons or restraints were used in the alleged assault, and investigators found no evidence of any drugs, including date rape drugs.

Police said all the Packers were drinking alcohol, but it wasn't clear if the women had been drinking.

"I suspect most everybody was probably consuming alcohol to some degree," Dorner said. "To what degree, I don't think there was anyone who was passed out or totally inebriated."

The women met several players at a Wisconsin Dells strip club, Dorner said. He said the women were patrons, not club employees. They drove back to the players' condo while at least some players took a shuttle bus from the club to the resort.

The women left the condo after the alleged assaults and contacted police from a nearby residence, Dorner said.

The NFL and the Packers are closely watching the case, which follows an offseason sexual-assault investigation involving one of the league's stars, Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

"There is an active law enforcement investigation, and we are monitoring developments," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said of the Packers case in an e-mail Sunday. "As with any such incident, it will be reviewed under the league's personal-conduct policy."

Prosecutors didn't charge Roethlisberger in his case, but the league suspended him for six games on April 21 for violating its personal-conduct policy.


Matthews, who participated in a charity softball game Sunday along with several other players, expressed frustration about being linked to the investigation.

"All we were doing is being asked to talk about a specific incident, and that's what we did," Matthews said. "It's unfortunate and it aggravated us a bit, but you just have to put it behind you and move forward."

Flynn also wasn't happy about publicly named in the matter.

"I am upset that we didn't do anything and our names get thrown out there," the backup quarterback told reporters in Appleton on Sunday. "We went and answered as many questions as possible and tried to get it rectified as quickly as possible. There is nothing that I or we did that I am embarrassed about."

[Tarlam!]

DP

[vince]

Yeah, Vince, you were reading way too much into what Matthews didn't say and what he did say.

Actually JH, you and others may have read too much into what I said. I simply noted that Matthews didn't support Underwood in any way, and that was bad for him. In fact, he piled on at a time when he was at the lowest point and he could have used some support (not that he deserved it necessarily). That was noteworthy to me. I didn't say that meant Underwood was guilty. In fact I specfically said that it doesn't mean he's guilty.

Sitton did show some support for his teammate specifically regarding the assault charge that Matthews didn't.

If these girls were in fact exotic dancers (independent performing artists of course - not club employees. No club would expose themselves to the kind of risk these girls would bring them by employing them.) who came up to Chubby's from Milwaukee (The Dells isn't exactly swimming with resident strippers. Most of them are imported no doubt.) and if in fact they did provide a bachelor-party like performance for the players, and if the other players did partake in the performance including Matthews (Act 1 anyway), Underwood may well feel like he's been thrown under the bus and shown a lack of support by Matthews.

Underwood screwed up bigtime. I'm not arguing otherwise. His wife and family are the big losers here. What's fortunate (for lack of a better word) is that it appears that there aren't also two women whose lives are irrevocably damaged and there isn't a football player who will immediately get kicked out onto the street because of a sexual assault charge.

I understand Matthews name is on this whole event so he wants to distance himself from it. But his name isn't on the police report under the "accused of sexual assault" category, and considering what appears to have happened, Underwood didn't do much assaulting. Sitton called the assault charges "bogus" without condoning Underwood's actions – appropriate comments I’d say. Matthews left his teammate hanging in the wind with the noose tied firmly around his neck and misunderstandings everywhere.

Matthews presumably hooted and hollered with each act of girl-on-girl entertainment. Who wouldn’t? Underwood clearly took things too far and wronged many people for what he did, including Matthews and the rest of his teammates.

I’m not blaming Matthews for running for cover, but Sitton stepped up with some support for his teammate when he was down, even when he'd been somewhat victimized by him. I can respect that.

[wootah]

Matthews presumably hooted and hollered with each act of girl-on-girl entertainment. Who wouldn’t? Underwood clearly took things too far and wronged many people for what he did, including Matthews and the rest of his teammates.

I’m not blaming Matthews for running for cover, but Sitton stepped up with some support for his teammate when he was down, even when he'd been somewhat victimized by him. I can respect that.

Underwoods action not only put the other 7 players in a bad spot, but also the charity event that carries Clays name. IMO by firmly expressing his disapproval, Clay is trying to limit the financial damage for the event next year.

[vince]

Matthews presumably hooted and hollered with each act of girl-on-girl entertainment. Who wouldn’t? Underwood clearly took things too far and wronged many people for what he did, including Matthews and the rest of his teammates.

I’m not blaming Matthews for running for cover, but Sitton stepped up with some support for his teammate when he was down, even when he'd been somewhat victimized by him. I can respect that.

Underwoods action not only put the other 7 players in a bad spot, but also the charity event that carries Clays name. IMO by firmly expressing his disapproval, Clay is trying to limit the financial damage for the event next year.

Agreed. My whole point is that Sitton did that while at the same time stepping up for his teammate when misunderstandings abound about the nature of his action. Engaging with prostitutes is illegal and morally wrong in many people's eyes. Sexually assaulting women is a far, far more sinister offense in anyone's eyes.

[Tarlam!]

Underwoods action not only put the other 7 players in a bad spot, but also the charity event that carries Clays name. IMO by firmly expressing his disapproval, Clay is trying to limit the financial damage for the event next year.

Double standars everywhere I look. If Mathews and the others were so concerned they should have dragged Underwood off kicking and screaming if need be. At least Sitton has the format to back up a team mate.

The most likely scenario is they were all at their own private strip club on company business (if I use the same logic as SC) and one got carried away. The fact that Underwood was accused (maybe 'cause of what KY has infered) has put them all in the dogpound with their respective partners, has put them in the press and will get them some extra suicides by M3,

And, if it were B. Lorenzo......